better prospect at 1b?

[DHonks]

Some have anointed Hunter Morris the 1b of the future for 2 years now. I've never been sold on him due to limited OBP/OPS. I'm not saying I'm sold on Nick Ramirez (I've never seen Ramirez or Morris), but are we at least sure Hunter is the better prospect? Last I checked, Ramirez had better numbers in a league that's traditionally more of a pitchers' league.

[nate82]

Some have anointed Hunter Morris the 1b of the future for 2 years now. I've never been sold on him due to limited OBP/OPS. I'm not saying I'm sold on Nick Ramirez (I've never seen Ramirez or Morris), but are we at least sure Hunter is the better prospect? Last I checked, Ramirez had better numbers in a league that's traditionally more of a pitchers' league.

 

I think they are both equal in terms of talent and potential. I wouldn't say either of them are the best 1B of the future. I like Rogers a little bit better than both Morris and Ramirez.

[fondybrewfan]

At least in my opinion Denson has a higher ceiling than any of them. Granted he does have a long ways to go yet but he has huge power potential and has shown an ability to take a walk. If I had to pick between Morris and Ramirez I probably would still pick Morris as of right now but it is pretty close. Morris either has to make the Brewers sometime this year or he is going to be playing somewhere else in 2015. But I don't think either of those guys have the potential to be a league average first basemen.

[JohnBriggs12]

Morris' ceiling is probably about that of a Garrett Jones. You might be able to get by with him for a couple years, but you'd likely need a platoon partner and you'd always be looking for someone better and there's a chance he falls even short of Jones in the majors. My guess is they are waiting on Kendrys Morales. If they don't get him, Morris will likely get his shot.

 

For comparison sake I sort of pegged pre-injury Gamel as comparable to Adam LaRoche.

[BrewersAA]

Morris is the better player between he and ramirez by more than a little bit. You all are entitled to your opinions for sure, and i will listen to argument, but Hunters has the better tool in all of the 5. In power they are close, but hunter has the edge. In Hit hunter is quite a bit better. Defensively hunter has already won a gold glove, though both need work, but hunter has a good edge. they both K too much and dont walk enough, but again hunter has a SLIGHT edge here too, maybe too slight to see. Hunter will carry a better OPS by a strong margin. Hes a more polished and better hitter, these guys are both left handed, the exact same size (6'3" 225) and they are not even a full year apart in age. So, hunters 40 doubles, 6 triples, 28 homers, 113 rbis, .303/.357/.563/.920 season at huntsville he was only 23, where Nick is now and not putting up nearly the numbers (thought good numbers himself) is being done at age 25...

 

I hope that helps show you in difference.

 

Its my opinion that morris's ceiling is as a fringe average everyday MLBer. Ramirez's ceiling is probably a power bat off the bench or the left side of a platoon. Both should play in the MLB, neither a star, but Hunter is the better player.

 

The best 1st base prospect in the system is probably Roach or Coulter.

[TURBO]

 

The best 1st base prospect in the system is probably Roach or Coulter.

 

Can you be a position prospect if you don't play the position?

 

I don't think either of those players can be considered 1B prospects until they learn the position and play the position.

[TheCrew07]

Near term = Morris, Rogers, Ramirez, Cooper, Denson

 

Overall = Denson, Morris, Cooper, Rogers, Ramirez

 

Roache is probably going to hit quite a bit like Reynolds if he makes it, huge #s of Ks and HRs. Opinions on that kind of hitter are going to vary, I don't know that he'd be better at 1B than he is in LF.

 

Coulter is pretty good athlete but it's tough to say how he'd play at 1B given I've never witnessed him play anything other than C. I don't know that he has naturally soft hands, it's just really tough to tell because of how he plays the position.

 

Defensively Morris would be on top with Ramirez and Rogers being approximately similar, Denson is far and away the worst and a work in progress but thankfully they are taking his defensive development seriously. Unless Morris has come much farther than I want to give him credit for we don't have anyone who will play Derek Lee type defense over there right now who's going to save a significant number of throwing errors, but other than Denson everyone is much better than Fielder ever was. However Denson is making steady progress on his scoops; he has noticeably improved from the start of the season to the last time I saw him play in the field and he carries his weight better than Fielder did as well.

 

Of all of those guys at the same level, Denson has the best approach at the plate and as all of the others were college guys he's much younger than they were as well. David currently has a .743 OPS and he really hasn't even taken off yet, he could be right around a .900 OPS player if he continues to develop in a perfect world, he's got that kind of offensive ceiling because of his power. He doesn't appear to be a .300 hitter right now but I'd project him in that .240-.260 range with just minimal improvement. He could be a .260/.370/.530 guy at his peak.

 

For comparison sake here are all of the 1B in their first shot at WI:

Denson (19) - .743 in 32 games to date

Rogers (23) - .765 in 64 games

Morris (21) - .742 in 71 games

Ramirez (21) - .599 in 36 games, .741 repeating in 96 games (2012)

Cooper (23) - .780 in 32 games

 

edit. I'm going to go out on a limb and project that Denson will be an .800+ OPS hitter for the season in WI this year, I just have a good feeling about him. He just keeps making steady improvement which is about all you can ask of any prospect.

[BrewersAA]

I can agree with this.

 

Sorry for going the way of guys who don't currently play the position. The consensus seems to be that coulter wont stick behind the plate, but it would be awesome for the brewers if he does! I also wouldn't really have rogers in the 1B mix either, though, as the brewers seem very committed to him at 3rd.

 

I am also maybe a bit prejudiced against cooper because i absolutely hated the pick when he was drafted, because there were a few live highschool arms available at the time, i just dont see any mlb potential in him, but hopefully i am wrong.

 

On Denson... The kid has HUGE power and i was actually fairly surprised to see the brewers push him to Wisconsin to start the year. My impression of him was that he had 1 tool and a lot to learn, the fact that hes at Wisconsin is an incredible sign for his potential and progress. He is showing pretty darn good patience at the plate for a guy his age that shows his power (generally these guys have long hard swings and they swing often). The fact that hes holding his own in average is a great sign, if he makes some strides in this area i think we will see the power start to come more and more often. The kid could end up being a steal for a 15th round pick! With all of that said, hes still not there, and needs a lot of work and needs to continue to improve. Today I am not sure really where to put him as a prospect. But, of all of our 1b prospects, if the cards fall right with him and he makes the necessary improvements he will hit a ceiling much high than the rest. Big IF but exciting one!

[fondybrewfan]

Denson has an OPS over 1.000 in May. He had a dreadful start to the year but has had a very strong month despite a short DL stint in the middle. He certainly looks the part of a power hitting 1B when watching on TV that's for sure. The kid is pretty big; but certainly by no means chunky like Prince. He looks like a guy that could be adequate defensively in time.

 

He is walking a lot and showed the same thing last year in Rookie Ball. He only has 6 XBH this year which is disappointing given his power potential but that will probably come in time. Other than Coulter and Taylor he is my favorite hitter to follow in the system.

[TooLiveBrew]

Denson has an OPS over 1.000 in May. He had a dreadful start to the year but has had a very strong month despite a short DL stint in the middle. He certainly looks the part of a power hitting 1B when watching on TV that's for sure. The kid is pretty big; but certainly by no means chunky like Prince. He looks like a guy that could be adequate defensively in time.

 

He is walking a lot and showed the same thing last year in Rookie Ball. He only has 6 XBH this year which is disappointing given his power potential but that will probably come in time. Other than Coulter and Taylor he is my favorite hitter to follow in the system.

I've said it once or twice elsewhere on the forum, but every time I see Denson I can't help but think Ryan Howard for a body type comp.

[brewmann04]

it going to fun to watch to see what first base prospect moves to the top of the list, Denson has hugh Power production and think we see Morris sometime this year to replace Overbay

[paul253]

I can't help but think someone, probably Morris, is going to be used a trade bait to upgrade first base later this year. I've never thought that highly of Nick Ramirez or Garrett Cooper but I like Denson's potential. As far as Rogers goes, how is he handling 3rd base? Any chance he could stick there? If not he'd likely move back to first if Morris is traded.

[SRB]

Neither one is much of a prospect at 1B. The only reason Morris was considered a solid prospect (at least for the Brewers...) was his 2012 season, but that's longer and longer in the past. Not to be negative, but if you have a career low-.300s OBP in the minors (Morris, .321; Ramirez, .314) you have no business playing in the majors at 1B.

 

David Denson looks much more promising to me. He's not hitting for power yet, but he's showing great OBP skills for his age. Power might come with time.

[HiAndTight]

 

The best 1st base prospect in the system is probably Roach or Coulter.

 

 

Why is everyone so eager to move such a talented kid with a good bat out from behind the plate?

 

I've been saying this since last year, but Coulter has absolutely every tool you need to be a very good defensive catcher....I certainly hope they leave him there for the time being. I've personally seen this kid wrestle in HS and he was incredibly athletic and agile, and I've seen him catch. He's raw, but the areas in which he struggles are area's that simply take repetition. He has all the requisite skills. Arm, flexibility, quickness...

 

 

Anyway, regarding Ramirez vs Morris, I thought Ramirez was considered to be a fantastic defender?

 

I thought I just read his manager say he's as good at picking the ball at 1st as he's ever seen? May be hyperbole, but other than the PCL managers voting Morris the best defensive 1st basemen, I thought scouts questioned his defense? Just asking for other opinions as I haven't seen either play much.

[BrewersAA]

 

The best 1st base prospect in the system is probably Roach or Coulter.

 

 

Why is everyone so eager to move such a talented kid with a good bat out from behind the plate?

 

I've been saying this since last year, but Coulter has absolutely every tool you need to be a very good defensive catcher....I certainly hope they leave him there for the time being. I've personally seen this kid wrestle in HS and he was incredibly athletic and agile, and I've seen him catch. He's raw, but the areas in which he struggles are area's that simply take repetition. He has all the requisite skills. Arm, flexibility, quickness...

 

Sorry, I would like to make it clear that i am all for Coulter sticking behind the play, hes MUCH more valuable there! So my opinion on his prospect status at first is not because I WANT him there, but simply because all of the literature I have read on him suggests that he will not make it behind the plate. Dick Groch (spelling) even seemed pessimistic about it in an interview, and if i remember correct he seemed to think the main reason was due to his size and that at his height and weight his body would not last behind the plate.

[HiAndTight]

 

The best 1st base prospect in the system is probably Roach or Coulter.

 

 

Why is everyone so eager to move such a talented kid with a good bat out from behind the plate?

 

I've been saying this since last year, but Coulter has absolutely every tool you need to be a very good defensive catcher....I certainly hope they leave him there for the time being. I've personally seen this kid wrestle in HS and he was incredibly athletic and agile, and I've seen him catch. He's raw, but the areas in which he struggles are area's that simply take repetition. He has all the requisite skills. Arm, flexibility, quickness...

 

Sorry, I would like to make it clear that i am all for Coulter sticking behind the play, hes MUCH more valuable there! So my opinion on his prospect status at first is not because I WANT him there, but simply because all of the literature I have read on him suggests that he will not make it behind the plate. Dick Groch (spelling) even seemed pessimistic about it in an interview, and if i remember correct he seemed to think the main reason was due to his size and that at his height and weight his body would not last behind the plate.

 

I didn't see what Groch had to say about it, although I did see what Melvin said about it. He said something to the affect that they were going to keep him there until he played his way out from behind the plate. He did say he might get too big to stay there. I'm just looking at the sizes and athletic ability of the best catchers in the big leagues.

Buster Posey surprised me a bit as I thought he was bigger, but he's "just," 6'1 220

Evan Gattis is 6'4 260

Joe Mauer is 6'5 235(and he's now moved to 1st base, but that was after giving the Twins a helluva run behind the plate).

Matt Weiters is 6'5 240

Salvador Perez is 6'3 235

Brian McCann is 6'3 230

Yan Gomes is 6'2 215

 

The other top 10 catchers who aren't on this list who match up are guys like Martin, Molina, Carlos Santana who are all 5'10-5'11 215-220 and then Luc who's 6' 195.

 

I could keep going with guys like Fisk, Bench, Carter and other greats.

 

And as someone who's seen Coulter as a kid who was about 6'2 200 pounds as a Soph in High School, as well as maybe 7 or 8 games he's caught behind the plate and is now 6'3 220, he's so agile and athletic. He looks stiff at times frankly because I think he's too mechanical, but he's 20 years old.

 

Anyway, chances are I'll be proven wrong, especially if he continues to hit as big catchers who can hit, especially in systems barren at the corner IF spots tend to end up elsewhere, but I see everything he needs to be a very good catcher, except the fluidity that comes with just time. He's only 20 years old.

 

 

In any event, if he's going to be counted among 1st basemen, I'd put him at #1 as well. He'd likely be a fantastic defender over there(though once again, if you are going to move him, at least try that howitzer he's got at 3rd or RF first).