Wang. Overbay. Bianchi. Herrera.

[igor67]

To the Hamstring idea, they could have him pinch run...

[endaround]

Bottom line, Wang's presence has not hurt this team at all. If they had a leaky bullpen and/or multiple starters who consistently can't out of the 5th or 6th inning it would be an issue, as it stands that is not the case. Going further, there is no need at all for eight relievers on this team, the starters have averaged over 6 innings a start. Seems as though this team has always carried one or two relievers too many in recent years. If/when Henderson and Thornburg are ready to return, some tough decisions may have to be made. That said, I'm guessing there will be an injury somewhere that will make that easier. For the time being, send Figaro down, and add an outfielder for heaven's sake.

 

He just hurt the team yesterday when they had to have Braun play CF and Reynolds in RF. The issue isn't that Wang is bad, its that he's so bad that he won't be used leading to having to have another man in the bullpen and a short bench. The Brewers are playing with a 24 man roster.

[logan82]

Yup. No other team in baseball has a useless guy at the back end of the pen. Every team platoons 1B and 2B. That's not hurting us at all.

[Invader3K]

Yup. No other team in baseball has a useless guy at the back end of the pen.

 

Discussions like this remind me of the days when Gabe Gross was our "lightning rod of controversy" as one intrepid reporter referred to him.

[endaround]

Yup. No other team in baseball has a useless guy at the back end of the pen.

 

No other team has a guy with a 12.51 ERA in their bullpen. The only player who has been as bad as Wang is Paulino and the White Sox sent him down in April and he's now on a DL stint in AAA. Pelfrey for the Twin was bad as well but was coming off injury and now he's on the DL again . Wandy Rodriquez wasn't quite as bad and he got DFA's by the Pirates and underwent season ending knee surgery.

 

Ever other player in the neighborhood of Wang was injured and not currently on their teams.

[DuWayne Steurer]

He just hurt the team yesterday when they had to have Braun play CF and Reynolds in RF. The issue isn't that Wang is bad, its that he's so bad that he won't be used leading to having to have another man in the bullpen and a short bench. The Brewers are playing with a 24 man roster.

 

Braun playing CF and Reynolds playing RF didn't hurt at the time, IIRC. The net runs lost due to that was 0. It could potentially hurt the team if either of those (or other players) had to play out of position long term, but it didn't cost them any runs yesterday.

[stalton]

Small sample alert, but Obay is hitting .326 and OPSing .860 in June. Much better than his abysmal May.

[Bombers]

@AdamMcCalvy: This surprised me: #Brewers have better pinch-hit AVG (.223, 4th in NL) and OPS (4th, .634) than in '11 (5th, .222 & 6th, .619).

[mw1785678]

There is obviously something management really, really likes in the kid--It is such an obvious handicap to the team--and I like the fact that while they are looking toward winning today they keep an eye to the future. I just can't believe they would be "gambling" on this. They believe this is a pretty sure thing for the franchise.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Does anyone remember when Enrique Cruz was a sure thing?

[RockCoCougars]

Yup. No other team in baseball has a useless guy at the back end of the pen. Every team platoons 1B and 2B. That's not hurting us at all.

 

Lots of teams have useless back end guys. The issue here is for some reason these guys insist on having 8 guys in the pen, when starters have been averaging into the 7th inning. Big time overkill. Cull the number down to seven, and add an outfielder. Use Wang as the long man, no need to keep Figaro around to pitch two times a week.

[folly412]

Well, there goes Figaro. Unfortunately the topic title band is back together, as Bianchi is back and starting at SS today.

[RockCoCougars]

How many times do they need to see Bianchi to realize that he can't play? Why do they insist on using Herrera in the outfield? Makes no sense. Schafer or Gindl should have been the call. This is why I'm not upset about using a roster spot on Wang. It'd likely be wasted on Bianchi anyway.

[igor67]

I'd guess they felt like they would rather have a stretch in CF than at SS if things went sideways again.

[HiAndTight]

Bottom line, Wang's presence has not hurt this team at all. If they had a leaky bullpen and/or multiple starters who consistently can't out of the 5th or 6th inning it would be an issue, as it stands that is not the case. Going further, there is no need at all for eight relievers on this team, the starters have averaged over 6 innings a start. Seems as though this team has always carried one or two relievers too many in recent years. If/when Henderson and Thornburg are ready to return, some tough decisions may have to be made. That said, I'm guessing there will be an injury somewhere that will make that easier. For the time being, send Figaro down, and add an outfielder for heaven's sake.

 

He just hurt the team yesterday when they had to have Braun play CF and Reynolds in RF. The issue isn't that Wang is bad, its that he's so bad that he won't be used leading to having to have another man in the bullpen and a short bench. The Brewers are playing with a 24 man roster.

 

And how did that hurt us yesterday?

 

In a day when both Gomez AND Segura went out within an inning of each other, neither player even made a play on the ball in a game we WON.

 

So I'm failing to see how that DID hurt.

 

 

No other team has a guy with a 12.51 ERA in their bullpen. The only player who has been as bad as Wang is Paulino and the White Sox sent him down in April and he's now on a DL stint in AAA. Pelfrey for the Twin was bad as well but was coming off injury and now he's on the DL again . Wandy Rodriquez wasn't quite as bad and he got DFA's by the Pirates and underwent season ending knee surgery.

Ever other player in the neighborhood of Wang was injured and not currently on their teams.

 

 

You're going to some extremes to here to try and make the argument that Wang is costing us. The game in which Braun moves over to CF and the Rockies don't score again and we win you claim costs us. You're arguing apples to oranges by comparing 36 year old starters to 22 year old rule 5 players getting designated for assignment when struggling, and you're setting the limit at the EXACT ERA Wang has. Just about every team has a guy in the BP that has been very bad. The difference is, most of those guys will almost certainly ALWAYS be bad whereas Wang is at least a good prospect.

 

But I'm curious, what would our record be without Wang? I've been hearing about how much he's been costing us since April. We might be what, 55 wins? 60 wins? Would we be 60-23 if it just wasn't for Wang in our Pen, 10 games better than anyone else in baseball?

 

Or would we most likely have the exact same record as if we'd passed on drafting Wang in the rule 5 draft?

[HiAndTight]

Does anyone remember when Enrique Cruz was a sure thing?

 

 

No...I do not remember anyone thinking he was a sure thing at all. I also don't believe I've seen anyone who has suggested Wang is a "sure thing," either.

[torts]

man, this team, who has 51 wins at the end of june, is really handicapped by Wang.... c'mon... they've won 51 games! Wang has REALLY hurt them!

[Mr Southpaw]

I would still like to see him break a nail and go on the 90 day DL.

[monty57]

He just hurt the team yesterday when they had to have Braun play CF and Reynolds in RF. The issue isn't that Wang is bad, its that he's so bad that he won't be used leading to having to have another man in the bullpen and a short bench. The Brewers are playing with a 24 man roster.

 

Braun playing CF and Reynolds playing RF didn't hurt at the time, IIRC. The net runs lost due to that was 0. It could potentially hurt the team if either of those (or other players) had to play out of position long term, but it didn't cost them any runs yesterday.

 

It just showcased the lack of flexibility on the bench. Overbay can only backup 1B, Weeks can only backup 2B, Maldonado is a catcher, and that left every other position on the field to be backed up by Herrera.

 

There's no perfect mix that is right for every situation, but we already have inflexibility and having the eight-man bullpen made the problem worse. I like a bench made up of guys who are really good at something. That's why Bianchi doesn't bother me as much as he bothers some. He is an excellent defender at every IF position. With a "traditional" bench (OF who can play CF, OF who is a better hitter, defensive IF who can backup all positions, corner IF who can hit, and a C), Bianchi makes sense as the backup MI/defensive whiz. I don't really like Herrera because he's not really good at anything... he just fit into this year's Brewers because they've had need for a "jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none."

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

It just showcased the lack of flexibility on the bench. Overbay can only backup 1B, Weeks can only backup 2B, Maldonado is a catcher, and that left every other position on the field to be backed up by Herrera.

 

There's no perfect mix that is right for every situation, but we already have inflexibility and having the eight-man bullpen made the problem worse. I like a bench made up of guys who are really good at something. That's why Bianchi doesn't bother me as much as he bothers some. He is an excellent defender at every IF position. With a "traditional" bench (OF who can play CF, OF who is a better hitter, defensive IF who can backup all positions, corner IF who can hit, and a C), Bianchi makes sense as the backup MI/defensive whiz. I don't really like Herrera because he's not really good at anything... he just fit into this year's Brewers because they've had need for a "jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none."

 

I absolutely agree that guys playing out of position CAN hurt the team if it happens long term. I was directly replying to the quoted post that said it hurt the team in that specific game, which it didn't. Zero balls were hit to guys plying out of position, and accounted for zero runs lost.

 

Ideal bench (IMO) would be

 

Gindl

Schafer

Maldy

Herrera

Morris

 

Gindl put up a .750-ish OPS in a fairly good sample size last year. He could be your main PH'er and backup OFer

Schafer is a suck hitter, but he could be the backup CF'er, 5th OF'er, PR'er, late defensive replacement, etc.

Maldy is obviously your backup catcher, and maybe your top RH pinch bat

Herrera isn't as bad as many think he is (put up a .340 OBP in over 200 PA's in 2012) and honestly should be the backup IF'er

Morris could be Reynold's platoon mate, and we could see what the schmo has to offer.

[TheCrew07]

"Wang...he's never thrown higher than A ball"

 

That's incorrect. He'd never been higher than rookie ball. A ball is a considerable step up from rookie ball. Rookie ball isn't even on the level of the top college leagues, Pac-12, Big 12 or SEC, or ACC.

 

How exactly do you figure that? I would say the umpiring is roughly similar but the college players in R ball were the best of the best in college... How many college pitchers with legitimate stuff have we had who dominated Helena? Just because a handful of college hitters are putting the hurt on the R+ leagues early on this year doesn't change the significant jump in overall talent the players are facing.

[logan82]

Yup. No other team in baseball has a useless guy at the back end of the pen. Every team platoons 1B and 2B. That's not hurting us at all.

 

Lots of teams have useless back end guys. The issue here is for some reason these guys insist on having 8 guys in the pen, when starters have been averaging into the 7th inning. Big time overkill. Cull the number down to seven, and add an outfielder. Use Wang as the long man, no need to keep Figaro around to pitch two times a week.

I thought I was over the top enough saying that every team platoons 1B and 2B. Guess not.

 

Every team has a mostly useless guy at the back of the pen. I have no idea why we think we need 2. That along with platooning 1B and 2B, and keeping a really poor back up not really good at anything in particular guy is what is hurting us. The roster construction is just really bad right now. Wang is really not even close to the top of the list of problems.

[fondybrewfan]

I would just like to add that Jeff Bianchi is freaking terrible. Priority #1 for Melvin has to be finding a competent backup infielder.

[JohnBriggs12]

I would just like to add that Jeff Bianchi is freaking terrible. Priority #1 for Melvin has to be finding a competent backup infielder.

 

 

Bianchi has hit .299/.349/.428 in 426 career AAA at bats. One would expect over a larger sample much better numbers than he's put up this year in the big leagues. The fact that when everyone is healthy, Bianchi will only see spot duty, so they'll live with what he gives them as long as his defense is good. Finding a competent backup infielder is far from priority #1.

 

As for Wang, the team record now isn't proof that they were right in keeping him. It's only proof that the team has the ability to overcome the handicap of playing a man short for half a season. We might not see the results of keeping struggling starters in the game longer than necessary until later in the year. Roenicke has a very long leash with his starters, with yesterday's game a case in point. They may have come back in that game if he had replaced Gallardo when the Brewers closed to 5-2. Sure those additional 3 runs were unearned but he did put the first two of the inning on base. The point is they are taking needless risks for a guy who hasn't shown that "wow" ability.

 

If Wang turns out to be another Matt Ford or Enrique Cruz and never makes any impact in the major leagues it was a failed experiment regardless of the Brewers final record. Sometimes the wrong call doesn't affect the results but it doesn't change the fact it was the wrong call.

[trwi7]

As for Wang, the team record now isn't proof that they were right in keeping him.

 

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the incredible irony in this.

 

The Brewers have a .593 regular season winning percentage with Betancourt not just on the roster but the starting SS.

 

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