Wang. Overbay. Bianchi. Herrera.

[FVBrewerFan]

The other advantage of having Green and Morris around is having a PH with some pop. It's nice to have that feeling in a close game that one swing couldput you in the lead in the late innings. Face it, right now nobody off the bench gives you that, except maybe Maldy. Quite honestly, for that reason I would rather have Brock Kjeldgaard on the bench over Overbay.

 

It's now or never mode right now for Green, Gindl, Morris. What's frustrating is that some of these guys were blocked in previous seasons. There's nothing blocking them now, except for the baseball handbook the Brewers use that clearly states:

 

Sect 7 Paragraph 3d: Roster must include gritty veterans, regardless of production.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Doesn't Green need to be added to the 40 man before mid-June, or he becomes a FA? I don't see Overbay still on this roster beyond that date, which is about 2-3 weeks away. Simply put, Overbay's time as a MLB caliber player is done.

 

As for Wang, plenty of discussion on him in his own thread, which has reached Yuni B level proportions...in all honesty I can see some sort of DL stint for him giving the brewers 1-2 months before adding him back to the roster before September roster expansion and still getting him the 90 days of service time required to retain his rights after this season.

 

The Bianchi/Herrera dilemma of utility IF's who can't hit should be an easy one - send Herrera back down, call up Morris.

 

Right now, the best moves the Brewers should make IMO are:

 

Cut Overbay, add Green to the 40 man and bring him up to serve as the LH hitting 1B/3B/PH option. Send Herrera down and call up Morris to get another LH bat and give him most of the starts at 1B until Ramirez comes back. Keep Bianchi but get him back into a bench role instead of playing too much and exposing how bad he is offensively. If Gallardo can't make his next start, give it to Nelson or Fiers. When Gorzelanny's ready to pitch in Milwaukee, look into the option of DL-ing Gallardo or Wang. If Gallardo does go on the DL, when he's ready to come back take a strong look at options to DL Wang for parts of June-July.

[Warning Track Power]

I don't think Morris is going to end up being a great MLB player, but Overbay is washed up and terrible. I agree that there's no reason to keep him around. Morris at least deserves a shot...if he fails, so what? At least we'll know what we actually have in him finally.

While I agree, I have to wonder aloud if the reason he is being kept around is for the "designated veteran leadership role." The clubhouse chemistry on this team seems very high and I have to wonder if DM and RR think it has to do with the presence of a player like O.

 

Not saying I agree with it, because I would rather have Morris up than O, just offering a reason.

[Invader3K]

It seems like if a team really wants the "veteran leadership role" filled, they could just hire a recently retired player as a special assistant coach or something. You don't need a veteran with a .500-ish OPS wasting a spot on your 25 man roster.

 

It's not like guys like Lohse, Garza, Weeks, Braun, and Reynolds are young whippersnappers at this point, either.

[Warning Track Power]

Agreed.

 

I would love to:

1. DFA Overbay and bring up Morris or trade for Moustakas

2. Keep Maldonado & Weeks

3. Keep Schafer & Bianchi for the time being...unless a different option that I currently do not see presents itself i.e. trade for more O with average D replacement.

[Thurston Fluff]

Betancourt and McGehee, though bad starters, OPS'ed well over the .543 and .318 currently carried by Overbay and Bianchi.

 

They also sucked defensively. The choice it seems is to have one or the other. If they were good at both they would be starters somewhere. I tend to like more offensive type players on the bench with one solid defensive guy in the mix. You get more use out of them due to the pinch hitting aspect of it. I think there is need for both types though and we do have Weeks who is quite a good offensive bench player. I'd jus trather the mix be slanted more towards offense than it currently is.

It's also apples to oranges because you're talking about a player who is exclusively a first baseman, arguably the easiest position to fill in a pinch.

 

The experience of the last season and a half should go some ways to dispelling that notion.

 

I'd also like Taylor Green up here as well. I know he's not on the 40 man roster but he could just take Overbay's spot. Even if he only hits as "well" as Overbay, he has position flexibility that Overbay doesn't.

 

I always liked Green so I am biased but I think his minor league track record is better than Morris. He's been mostly good setting aside the injury marred seasons while Morris has been pretty mediocre aside from that one great season. Just seems to me there is a reason why Green had some off seasons. Morris on the other hand just seems to be showing who he is. I think they could move Hellweg to the 60 day DL to make room.

 

While I agree, I have to wonder aloud if the reason he is being kept around is for the "designated veteran leadership role." The clubhouse chemistry on this team seems very high and I have to wonder if DM and RR think it has to do with the presence of a player like O.

 

I think Gomez is the the straw that stirs the drink. AS TLB mentioned this team is not exactly made up of youngsters anymore.

[liveforoctober]

I assume when Gorzo comes back that one of the 4 named in the thread title will be gone and my guess is obviously Herrera. I also am on board with a Taylor Green call up, he actually eliminates the need for both Overbay AND Herrera. The roster flexibility improves 3 fold with a Green for Overbay and Herrera move.

 

Some poster just said it a minute ago but I agree with the sentiment that Green (or Morris for that matter) can't be worse that Overbay and when it gets down to it ... the race this October could likely going to be a game or two. A marginal improvement at our left handed first base position could very well be the difference in the post season for us. This move should be made as soon as April ends.

[logan82]

I think they could move Hellweg to the 60 day DL to make room.

Can't move a guy to the 60 day DL if he was put on the DL while in the minors. I can't cite that but I know it was brought up elsewhere either on this board or over at BCB.

[bill hAll Star]

 

Two words. Mat Gamel. In other words, the last sweet swinging power hitting first base prospect that we putzed around with with until two torn ligaments cost him any chance of a future with the Brewers.

 

...

How much longer, Doug?

 

I wouldn't compare Morris to Gamel personally(and other prospects you mentioned).

 

Morris probably isn't a projected MLB-er. He's a one-trick pony of power and might be a guy that at best flips between AAA and the MLB. One could argue those other guys you mentioned were held down a bit too long.

 

If we had a viable LH 1B option, I wouldn't blame Doug if he never called up Morris. However, I will say that DM should probably just call him up to see what the heck Morris can do in the MLB (I feel like he's going to be a .215/.290/.450 guy) since he almost can't be worse than Overbay.

 

However, I wouldn't say the reason Morris is being held down is because Melvin is babying his prospect as he may have with Peralta, Gamel, etc...rather, I'm not sure Melvin thinks he's good enough to be in the majors.

[brwrsfan]

I think they could move Hellweg to the 60 day DL to make room.

Can't move a guy to the 60 day DL if he was put on the DL while in the minors. I can't cite that but I know it was brought up elsewhere either on this board or over at BCB.

 

I believe they would have to activate him onto the MLB roster, then move him to the DL. He would then accrue service time and his full MLB salary.

[adambr2]

Betancourt and McGehee, though bad starters, OPS'ed well over the .543 and .318 currently carried by Overbay and Bianchi.

 

They also sucked defensively. The choice it seems is to have one or the other. If they were good at both they would be starters somewhere. I tend to like more offensive type players on the bench with one solid defensive guy in the mix. You get more use out of them due to the pinch hitting aspect of it. I think there is need for both types though and we do have Weeks who is quite a good offensive bench player. I'd jus trather the mix be slanted more towards offense than it currently is.

 

It also depends on your position and the guy you're replacing. Since Reynolds is a good defensive first baseman, Overbay really has no value as a 1st base only replacement, especially considering his D is only "average" and he can't hit a lick.

 

Bianchi probably has more value because of his positions, but you have to at least be able to outhit your pitching staff, or you are useless as a pinch-hitter.

 

 

It's also apples to oranges because you're talking about a player who is exclusively a first baseman, arguably the easiest position to fill in a pinch.

 

The experience of the last season and a half should go some ways to dispelling that notion.

 

I'm not saying it's easy, just the easiest. Any player playing a position he doesn't usually play isn't easy. But you can plug in Lucroy or Maldonado at 1st for a day or 2 if it's needed. You probably won't get great defense, but you can get by. You certainly couldn't do that with them at SS or CF.

[HiAndTight]

Back in 2012, in 200+ plate appearances, Herrera posted a .340 OBP. Even if he does nothing else, he showed an ability to get on base, while being passably competent at multiple positions in the field. I'm not sure why he's not taking walks this year. No explanation.

 

The guy to add to your list is Logan Schafer. He can't hit, can't hit for power, and can't get on base. The only thing he does is play solid defense. The problem is, that's not how RRR uses him. He plays him, (and hits him leadoff!) and expects him to do things he can not do. Schafer is now 27, creeping up on a full season's worth of MLB plate appearances, and isn't approaching anything close to a big-league quality hitter. The only thing this guy should be doing is late inning defensive replacement, pinch running, or getting the occasional 'last man off the bench lefty pinch hitter" duties.

 

 

This is akin to saying that Roenicke has used Thornburg and or Smith as mop up guys this year.

He hasn't. The closest either have come is Thornburg coming in for Gallardo and Smith coming in with a 5 run lead after he was already warmed up and the Brewers scored 4 in their half of an inning.

 

Schafer meanwhile has ONE start this year as a leadoff hitter, and it was when Gomez was out of the lineup and we were putting out a lineup similar to a AAA lineup and had VERY poor options.

 

 

Maybe part of the problem is the perception that Roenicke is "always," doing these things that he's simply not doing.

 

 

I didn't say 'always', did I? Don't strawman me. Hitting a .280 OBP guy leadoff once, is one time too many. Just because he was subbing for Gomez doesn't mean he has to hit him leadoff. That's a very Yost-ian move, if ever there was one.

 

He's also used Herrera in the leadoff spot, FWIW.

 

 

I'm not trying strawmanning anyone. You said he "plays him and hits him leadoff!" He did it once when Gomez, Ramirez and Braun were all out of the lineup and Gennett and Lucroy hits 3rd and 4th(and were our best options), and he did it the day after Gomez came out of the game with an injury. I was using the previous comment about Smith and Thornburg and trying to disprove some of the misconceptions about what Roenicke does.

 

I'm not sure what a "Yost-ian," move is, but anyone he would have hit leadoff would have been a terrible choice and used as an example save for perhaps Lucroy that particular day.

 

He also walked twice and scored a run in a 4-3 win...for what that's worth(which isn't much admittedly).

 

 

The fact is there were just no good choices. And when he went with Herrera, he had come up from AAA hitting .460 or something over his last 10 games and just had 2 base hits the day before. We don't have a leadoff hitter to begin with, so things only get that much worse when you take your #1,#3,#4 hitters out and then have to give your normal #5 hitter a day off in Lucroy while dealing with such an awful bench.

[HiAndTight]

I agree - great overview.

 

Hunter Morris should be brought up today. I just don't see why he is in the minors. Overbay is done. Get it done Doug - bring him up.

 

Two words. Mat Gamel. In other words, the last sweet swinging power hitting first base prospect that we putzed around with with until two torn ligaments cost him any chance of a future with the Brewers.

 

This is a pattern I've seen with Melvin over the years. Sometimes, good players are blocked from advancing to the Majors. If you look at the Los Angeles Dodgers, they've got a kid named Joc Pederson that is going to be good. Real good. Really really good. Unfortunately, they have such a log jam in the outfield, he can't get any playing time with the parent club.

 

Pederson at AAA Albuquerque this season: 44 games played, 170 ABs, 42 runs, 61 hits, 8 doubles, 0 triples, 14 home runs, 29 RBI, 13 stolen bases, 33 BBs, 54 Ks, .359 AVG, and a slash line of .463/.653/1.116.

 

But with the Brewers, some of the guys that we have in the minors that have proven whatever they're going to prove, continue to toil wondering if their day is ever going to come.

 

Melvin just waits too long with some of these prospects.

 

Khris Davis was 25 before he ever made it to the bigs.

 

Who's our top prospect right now? Jimmy Nelson. How old? 24. 25 on June 5th.

 

Most of the other teams in the Majors, their top prospects are seeing the Majors at least a year or two younger than those in Milwaukee.

 

Hunter Morris is 26 in October.

 

How much longer, Doug?

 

 

It's funny, someone was just making the argument that we rush our prospects too quickly.

 

Anyway, I don't think you can blame Melvin for Gamel. Gamel had two freak knee injuries. Prior to that he was 22 in his first big league experience and 23 when he was given extended big league at bats. Not sure what we should have done there.

Davis was very good in the minors in 2012, but was injured and limited to 82 games and we had a very good lineup and an OF of Aoki, Gomez and Braun.

 

Morris should be up. Who else should have been up sooner?

[JohnBriggs12]

One thing about Overbay that clouds reasoning. He's always had that sweet swing that some lefties possess. He still has it so when he makes contact you think, wow, what a nice stroke he puts on a ball. Plus he still uses the entire field. Gamel had that too to some extent. The problem is Overbay has always been susceptible to off speed stuff. As hard as Oswalt used to be able to throw back in his prime, he'd make Overbay look silly with his changeup. Now besides the off speed stuff, Overbay is a tick behind the really hard stuff. He'll still do damage to average fastballs and hanging sliders but pitchers like that are mainly down in AAA.

 

Morris' numbers this year show some progress over last year. If they fail to sign Morales after the draft, I think we'll see Morris up here and he'll have more than half a season to show what he can do at least against mostly RH pitching.

[Pugger]

From gregmag: I don't like the argument that bench guys always suck, so don't worry that ours suck. That's an opportunity to get a comparative advantage

 

That should be a tattoo on Doug's leg. It seems to me every year I wish we had paid a little bit more for a little bit better bench. I was really sad when we were outbid a half million on Hariston Jr (spelling?). A guy that could actually BAT and play decent everywhere. I don't like the idea of the inexperienced guys (like Shafer) being the bench guys. I like the idea of a Hermida who we know 'can' MLB produce.

 

I really, really do think if a GM spent an extra 3 to 5 mill on the bench he will pick up 2 or 3 wins over the year. Money well spent.

 

Maybe that should be tattooed to his forehead.

[Pugger]

The other advantage of having Green and Morris around is having a PH with some pop. It's nice to have that feeling in a close game that one swing couldput you in the lead in the late innings. Face it, right now nobody off the bench gives you that, except maybe Maldy. Quite honestly, for that reason I would rather have Brock Kjeldgaard on the bench over Overbay.

 

It's now or never mode right now for Green, Gindl, Morris. What's frustrating is that some of these guys were blocked in previous seasons. There's nothing blocking them now, except for the baseball handbook the Brewers use that clearly states:

 

Sect 7 Paragraph 3d: Roster must include gritty veterans, regardless of production.

 

I think we'd all like ANYBODY on the bench over Overbay.

[Outlander]

Since the other Wang thread was locked just wanted to mention that Wang has now been active for 90 days. Even with a season ending injury he can be sent to the minors next year by the Brewers. Of course he has to stay on the 25 man if not injured this season but at least there will be no issue with Wang next season.

[Pugger]

Since the other Wang thread was locked just wanted to mention that Wang has now been active for 90 days. Even with a season ending injury he can be sent to the minors next year by the Brewers. Of course he has to stay on the 25 man if not injured this season but at least there will be no issue with Wang next season.

 

I haven't read the other Wang thread. Can someone explain what the reasoning is of MLB with this rule #5 and why he has to stay on the big club all season? This is actually hurting him more than anyone because he really needs to be pitching but because we are in a pennant race we are trying to win as many games as we can so we don't want to put him in there giving up runs.

[Mr Southpaw]

It is time for Wang to trip over his shoelace and break something like his left index finger, so he goes on the DL for the rest of the year.

[Mr Southpaw]

Maybe pull a hammy!

[folly412]

Has anyone ever gone on the DL for muscle atrophy from never pitching? That could be a new one.

[DoubleSwitch]

Since the other Wang thread was locked just wanted to mention that Wang has now been active for 90 days. Even with a season ending injury he can be sent to the minors next year by the Brewers. Of course he has to stay on the 25 man if not injured this season but at least there will be no issue with Wang next season.

 

I haven't read the other Wang thread. Can someone explain what the reasoning is of MLB with this rule #5 and why he has to stay on the big club all season? This is actually hurting him more than anyone because he really needs to be pitching but because we are in a pennant race we are trying to win as many games as we can so we don't want to put him in there giving up runs.

 

1. It stops teams from stashing too many major league ready players in the minors who have little chance to reach the big leagues normally. If a guy has put in 4-5 years in the minors, isn't on the 40 man, and another team would give them a spot then it's only fair to have some mechanism to make that happen. Obviously it wouldn't make sense if you could take them and then put them right back int he minors. Normally players as inexperienced as Wang aren't eligible to be picked for rule 5 this is a special circumstance.

 

2. Just because he's not throwing in big league games doesn't mean he isn't pitching. He's probably been getting more coaching attention than anyone else in the system. He's also accruing service time and making more money than he would in 20 year in the minors. I think Wang is all right with the situation all things considered.

[DoubleSwitch]

The concept of this thread is ridiculous. As if other good teams don't have mediocre or bad players on their rosters. The God of depth and roster construction Billy Beane is carrying Daric Barton, Eric Sogard and Nick Punto.

 

Juan Francisco has been medicore at the plate since his first week in Toronto, and cannot play defense to save his life. Overbay's been crushing the ball for the past month+ and has been a valuable piece. He's a good choice in a PH role late in the game because he can actually work a count and make a guy throw some pitches. Hunter Morris is doing terrible in AAA for the second straight year so I don't even know why anyone brings his name up anymore as a serious option.

 

It's a total baseball cliche at this point for fans to hate their managers and think they're smarter than the GM, but there isn't really much for people to criticize. This is the best defensive team Melvin has ever put together. They've got a couple studs up the middle and solid to above average guys on the corners. Davis has a noodle arm, but Weeks is the only one who's really painful to watch. That's a big part of the reason the pitching has exceeded expectations, and at least for me it makes them a lot less frustrating to watch day in day out. A big part of that is saying 'no thanks' to high power/high strikeout/no glove guys like Francisco, which has been a Melvin weakness in the past. If choosing Overbay over Juan is the worst move Melvin makes in 2014 then he's doing better than most GM's.

[TooLiveBrew]

Has anyone ever gone on the DL for muscle atrophy from never pitching? That could be a new one.

I like the cut of your jib

[RockCoCougars]

Bottom line, Wang's presence has not hurt this team at all. If they had a leaky bullpen and/or multiple starters who consistently can't out of the 5th or 6th inning it would be an issue, as it stands that is not the case. Going further, there is no need at all for eight relievers on this team, the starters have averaged over 6 innings a start. Seems as though this team has always carried one or two relievers too many in recent years. If/when Henderson and Thornburg are ready to return, some tough decisions may have to be made. That said, I'm guessing there will be an injury somewhere that will make that easier. For the time being, send Figaro down, and add an outfielder for heaven's sake.