Trade partner - Tampa Bay Rays [Latest -- rumored ask for David Price: Nelson, Thornburg, & Coulter (post #94)]

[Fear The Chorizo]

the Greinke and Marcum trades happened in the offseason, though. The Sabathia deal most mirrors this possible trade, as a small-mid market team hoping to contend fell on its face early in the season and was left holding an ace that was nearing free agency. The differences are that Tampa won't lose his rights to free agency immediately after the season if they don't trade him now, and Milwaukee's farm system isn't the best of the teams kicking the tires on a trade like it was in 2008.

 

Tampa could get great return for Price whenever they'd be willing to deal him, and I think they'd probably get more if they wait until this winter and open up the bidding to all teams, not just those in contention with 2 months of season left. Shoot, even a team like the Cubs would be a very valid suitor for Price this offseason, and they'd have more to offer than anyone mentioned in current trade talks and could give Price whatever he'd want for a contract extension.

[JohnBriggs12]

The guy I would hang on to at all costs is Taylor. He is Gomez' heir apparent. They have young talent at SS and 2B under control at major league level for quite a while and Arcia isn't the only minor league middle infielder that has a chance.

 

As for Coulter, I see him as still a bit of a hit or miss.

 

By the way if Nelson is traded, I'd strongly consider turning Smith back into a starter going into 2015. Heck, maybe Rays value Smith over Nelson??

[TURBO]

No way I give away 6 years of control of both James Nelson and Coulter. No way!! Unless M.A has a deal in place to pay Price and keep him hear for the foreseeable future, then stay away!!

Seconded....

Thirds! Count me out

 

Fourths? I can't stand the thought of draining our minors for a guy that pitches 1 year, maybe 1.5 years for us.

 

I'm out.

 

Adding David Price does not promise us a world series title, doesn't even promise us a world series appearance. If we drain our minor league system, and fall short of the world series, the trade is a HUGE loss.

 

I just don't like it.

[trwi7]

Fourths? I can't stand the thought of draining our minors for a guy that pitches 1 year, maybe 1.5 years for us.

 

I'm out.

 

Are you Mark Cuban?

[Warning Track Power]

By the way if Nelson is traded, I'd strongly consider turning Smith back into a starter going into 2015. Heck, maybe Rays value Smith over Nelson??

Honestly, anything I can do to hold onto Nelson is the way I would proceed with this deal especially if the Brewers are without a commitment from Price long term. If there were a way to focus on Thornburg, Smith, Coulter, Arcia, Taylor etc...and keep Nelson I would be more interested in this deal. A rotation of Price-Lohse-Peralta-Garza-Nelson is what I would love to see in 2015. I would give Price the contract extension as well and try to scrape together a lineup that would include a ton of cheap pieces in positions not currently manned by Braun or Lucroy i.e. Gennett, Segura, Davis types. Gomez, Ramirez, Gallardo, Weeks would all be squeezed out as part of a Price extension and Schafer, Plouffe and Nelson-types would be the replacements.

[JohnBriggs12]

I like your 2015 rotation idea, but I'm not on board for giving Price a long term deal. He could break down at any time like any other pitcher. Either he'll lead them to another playoff berth in 2015, or bring back young talent in a deal a year from now.

 

In my mind, if Nelson is dealt for Price, they'd still have to let Gallardo go next year to pay the $20 million or so for Price and I'd think Smith would make a nice replacement. So my 2015 rotation would be Price, Lohse, Peralta, Garza, and Smith or Thornburg (assuming Thornburg isn't part of the deal).

 

I think Brewers see the big picture as one where they can contend for a year or two, then take two or three years and build back up to that point again as opposed to winning 4-5 years in a row. 2014-15 might be the time.

[fondybrewfan]

Isn't a Price contract extension going to need to be like 7/150 or something like that? DM would probably give him the CC Sabathia special (5/100) and Price will politely consider it for like 5 minutes.

 

A lot of big market teams have gotten bitten recently by huge long term contracts to pitchers so maybe that monster 7 year deal never happens again but I would give the Brewers about a 1% chance of resigning or extending Price. If Price has gotten this close to FA I am pretty sure he will want to test the market.

 

Perhaps a better trade target would be Lester; he is only signed through this year but he is also very talented and wouldn't require nearly the same haul in prospects as Price. You would think Lester could be had without giving up Nelson.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'd do that trade in a second. Price would be a huge difference maker. Maybe the Brewers make the playoffs without him, but I don't think they would be true World Series contenders. Need to matchup with the likes of Kershaw, Greinke, Bumgarner, etc.

[3and2Fastball]

Now I'm hearing that Tampa Bay is looking more at Nelson/Gennett/Thornburg and saying "keep Coulter" and Melvin won't move Scooter, so that is sticking point.....

 

In my opinion David Price is exactly what could take the Brewers from playoff contender to pennant contender, but the price of Scooter Gennett & Jimmy Nelson might be too high....

[fondybrewfan]

If they want Gennett then I think Zobrist would need to be added to the deal. He has a team option for 2015 at $7.5 Million and is having a pretty solid year and plays quite a bit of 2nd base.

 

But if you want to do that it probably gets even more expensive for the Crew in terms of prospects. We would need to get a 2nd basemen in here if we trade Gennett because you can't have Weeks playing there everyday. Probably like Nelson, Coulter, Gennett, and Thornburg for Price and Zobrist.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Isn't a Price contract extension going to need to be like 7/150 or something like that? DM would probably give him the CC Sabathia special (5/100) and Price will politely consider it for like 5 minutes.

.

 

I know it's only a few guys, but it seems like Melvin has offered the (as you label it, the 'CC Special') about a dozen times. 5/100 feels like his 'go to' contract offer. I love this! The "CC Special".

[TURBO]

Why not just trade for Price AND Lester?

 

That is in blue, but should it be?

 

[jvrocksaz]

Having a pending FA like Lester out there could keep teams like the Cubs from trading prospects to get Price. They can just wait until the off season and sign Lester without giving up any of the goods they have.

[monty57]

Now I'm hearing that Tampa Bay is looking more at Nelson/Gennett/Thornburg and saying "keep Coulter" and Melvin won't move Scooter, so that is sticking point.....

 

In my opinion David Price is exactly what could take the Brewers from playoff contender to pennant contender, but the price of Scooter Gennett & Jimmy Nelson might be too high....

 

So I was pretty much right on in Post #93:

 

brewer1 said:

Also written in the past few days was an article on a rays fan site that the Brewers could by the mystery team that could swoop in and get Price. According to the author of the article the package the Brewers would have to send would be along the lines of Nelson, Coulter and Thornburg. Not sure how many would be willing to give that up for 1 1/2 years of Price.

 

I replied:

 

That wouldn't do it. The Mariners will float Walker, and the Cardinals will float Tavares. If we want Price, Nelson would be part of the deal, but we'd have to add someone from the MLB team, as we don't have enough in the minors to keep up with the other suitors.

 

Gennett's season makes him desirable, so potentially Nelson and Gennett? I still don't think this is a better offer than Walker or Tavares plus some other prospects. If it's not, then we'd really have to do something like Lucroy or Gomez for Price, which is (or at least should be) an obvious no-go.

 

So, in that light, would you give up Gennett, Nelson and maybe Taylor or Coulter for Price? That's probably our best realistic offer, I wouldn't want to do it, and I still think it wouldn't be the accepted offer. My guess is that if traded, Price will end up in Seattle (Walker), St Louis (Tavares) or LA (Pederson). In any of these cases, Tampa would be receiving a potential superstar, which trumps our offer of potentially good players.

[monty57]

Having a pending FA like Lester out there could keep teams like the Cubs from trading prospects to get Price. They can just wait until the off season and sign Lester without giving up any of the goods they have.

 

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think the Cubs may be getting ready to pounce. The fans are getting antsy about the length of the rebuild, so a quick trade headlined by one of their highly desirable SS prospects for Price (along with a probable extension), and an offseason signing of Lester could make for a quick turnaround as their position prospects continue to hit the big leagues.

 

I certainly don't count them out of the list of potential suitors for Price at this point.

[Warning Track Power]

Now I'm hearing that Tampa Bay is looking more at Nelson/Gennett/Thornburg and saying "keep Coulter" and Melvin won't move Scooter, so that is sticking point....

 

Pass...not because it is unreasonable, but because it doesn't allow us to field a competitive team in the short or long term. Great we have Price for 1.5 years (assuming no extension) and have a great rotation of Price-Lohse-Garza-Peralta-Yo, but we now have an everyday lineup that includes Rickie at 2B, Reynolds/Overbay at 1B and Segura at SS. Short term, I don't see a championship team riding Rickie as an everyday player at 2B and having that 1B combo.

 

Now longer term...Brewers just lost a cheap, productive piece at 2B at the MLB level. These are not the type of players they can afford to trade if they have designs on re-signing Price or re-signing Gomez for that matter when the time comes.

[chadomac]

I don't see Melvin parting with Gennett to get Price. The upgrade isn't worth it to create a deficiency at 2B.

[fondybrewfan]

But if you can include Zobrist from Tampa as part of the return? That's the only way I could see DM parting with Gennett.

[fondybrewfan]

Hamels is also apparently available; he is signed for 4 more years so parting with Nelson wouldn't be a huge deal there. But his salary isn't cheap and he would cost even more than Price most likely.

 

At least DM has some choices for the big splash he makes this year:)

[TURBO]

This situation really makes me nervous...REALLY nervous.

[Yount19]

No to Hamels.. No to Masterson (indians have him available too).. Yes to Price and/or Lester if the price is right.. Price and Carp would make this team sweet!!

[brewcrewdue80]

Man, I really don't know where to stand on this. Nelson? Or 1.35 seasons of Price? 12 Starts left this season plus Playoffs which isn't set in stone.

 

There's part of me that know Price will be a QO recipient so there's a top 30 draft pick coming back for him at some point. Or of course we trade him in the offseason for what may be an equal or even better return. I'm not going to be overly upset at losing Thornburg. Coulter? I think he's expendable based on the fact he's so far away at a position still from what I've read he's not likely going to stick at. Which then means how much longer does it take for him when he moves off from Catcher in to the OF or 3b or 1b wherever it may be to get ML ready?

 

I'm just so on the fence to trade away Nelson due to his HR/9 rate being so miniscule that I feel he's going to be great as a Milw SP. Price has his HR problems this year. And again it's 12 starts (maybe 11) if this happens.

 

The best, best scenario to me is that we acquire Price. Play out the season with him. Flip Price to the Dodgers(who want him) for say Seager, chris reed, and Jesmuel Valentine. Would provide us with 3b of future and 2b of future along with a backend Rotation SP.

 

Let's say we do lose Gennett in the Price deal. Seager to SS in 2015, Segura at 2b and ARam at 3b. Then 2016 you have Seager at 3b, Segura at 2b still, and Arcia is SS at that point.

 

I'll hate losing Gennett the rest of this season but if there's this kind of trade possibility after the season and we'll be okay for next season, then I can dig it.

[torts]

brewers cant afford to lose MI players (Segura/Gennett) since they really have nothing behind them to replace them in the short term. cant imagine that Scoots is apart of the deal.. maybe they can take Weeks off us? PLEASE?

[nate82]

I believe the Cardinals have walked away from the trade talks with the Rays for Price and have now moved onto getting Hamels. I believe the Cardinals were told that they would not get a window to sign Price long term and have now backed out of the Price sweepstakes and are no longer in the running for Price.

 

The Dodgers have also made it clear that Pederson is not available and are also out of the Price trade talks. That leaves a few teams left to trade for Price which includes the Brewers, Cubs, Mariners, and a surprise team probably the Pirates get involved.

 

I believe the Pirates are going to be the team that lands Price and I can see them dealing him to the Mariners in the off season for Walker and another prospect. I believe the deal will be Bell, Kingman, and Jacoby Jones. The Pirates have enough OF depth that they can trade Bell and Jones. The best part of this trade for the Pirates is that they don't even trade their best prospect in the deal.

[TheCrew07]

Not that Nelson isn't valuable, but isn't his realistic ceiling basically a workhorse #3/4? I'd love to have 6 years of that kind of pitcher, but we're not trading a future ace here, and we would be getting 1.5 years of a legit ace. Honestly, we traded a much higher-upside prospect (at the time) in Brett Lawrie and that was just for boring Shaun Marcum. Coulter looks promising too but setting aside his impressive 2014, remember that he wasn't even deemed worthy of the BA Top 10 coming into this season. No brainer trade to me.

 

Nelson was hitting 97 on occasion yesterday and working consistently at 94-95. His ceiling is pretty similar to Peralta's, at least a #2 with an outside shot at #1. Nelson's upside is quite high.

 

Nelson doesn't have the control or stuff to be a #1, that's just silly. He could maybe be a #2 if he improves his command but how much farther is his stuff really going to come? He's already 25 years old and wasn't the raw pitcher that Peralta (converted OF + TJ surgery) was to begin with.