Trade partner - Tampa Bay Rays [Latest -- rumored ask for David Price: Nelson, Thornburg, & Coulter (post #94)]

[nate82]

 

I know Mclendon isn't the one who has say for trading away Walker, and in fact to me should actually put him on somewhat a hot seat for this rant on the Team's #1 prospect.

But who knows? This could end with Walker's agent pushing the issue to trade Walker away?

 

 

I see nothing wrong with that rant. Unless you hate the truth then I guess there is something wrong with the rant. It was not a good start by Walker and when you are the #1 prospect for a team and you are a highly regarded prospect like it or not there is going to be more pressure on that prospect.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

I know Mclendon isn't the one who has say for trading away Walker, and in fact to me should actually put him on somewhat a hot seat for this rant on the Team's #1 prospect.

But who knows? This could end with Walker's agent pushing the issue to trade Walker away?

 

 

I see nothing wrong with that rant. Unless you hate the truth then I guess there is something wrong with the rant. It was not a good start by Walker and when you are the #1 prospect for a team and you are a highly regarded prospect like it or not there is going to be more pressure on that prospect.

 

He gave up 1ER in 5ip pulled after 83 pitches. Does 1 more ip without giving up a run please him? Is the lack of Ks what he's upset about? I don't really get why he even ranted about Walker. He's 21 and has had success at the ML level aside from his BB rate. I don't think Mclendon gets youth and it improving.

The man you're looking to acquire in Price, wasn't even a SP in ML at Walker's Age. Then in his first year being one put up numbers that Walker's resemble today. Near 4BB/9 under 8Ks/9 as well as less than 6ip per start. Walker is 2 years ahead of Price on his career curve under team control for 5more years-pre extension. But go ahead Mclendon run Walker out of town for an Ace this year+next while Walker grooms himself in to an Ace by the end of next season meaning you pushed away 4 years+ of an Ace because of a lack of 1year's patience.

[monty57]

This coming from Lloyd McClendon, him of the career .244 avg / .325 OBP / .381 SLG / .706 OPS.

 

Yeah, great idea to publicly slam a guy whose "bad" outing consists of 1 ER in 5 IP. Cano better hope he doesn't go 1-for-4 today or he might get benched for a week... can't have a guy in the lineup who can only hit .250.

[HiAndTight]

I don't know how Seattle could do the trade due to supposedly being near their max in payroll. Another thing is they're 8games back of Oakland, 6.5 back of Anaheim. Acquiring Price just to get a wildcard and then watch Felix pitch the Wildcard game, only to lose and get zero use from Price in the Playoffs? How could Jack Z, maintain his job as GM after that fiasco?

 

First of all, clearly they aren't near their max payroll if they're attempting to make such a trade. I'm sure like most organizations, their payroll is fluid and not written in stone.

 

Second, you're not sure how Jack Z keeps his job after a scenario YOU came up with doesn't work out this year? Haven't you suggested that his job was in danger after several moves he's made? Perhaps...he's got more job security than you are affording him. Not to mention, Price would be under team control for next year with a LOT of talent.

As for Milwaukee and TB, if Zobrist would play 1b, then he's a great bat to target. He bats from both sides. The problem is, we have to package prospects to get him or part with Nelson(if Tampa even has use for him)

 

"if Tampa even has use for him?" Is this supposed to be a serious post? If Tampa has any use for a pitcher like Nelson? Like they've just got 12 pitchers on their big league staff that throw in the mid 90's and are GB pitchers whom they would have 6 years of team control over?

 

I'm not sure what's more off the wall, that suggestion, or that the Brewers don't have " a prospect that ranks as above Avg future ML."

 

 

I don't think there is a team in baseball that wouldn't be able "to find a use," for Jimmy Nelson.

[brewcrewdue80]

Does having 7SPs but only getting 5SPs actual ML starts a great idea? Yeah I said a use for Nelson because to me, it's overkill to have Moore/Cobb/Archer/Odorizzi after Price leaves with Alex Colome/Taylor Guerrieri/Enny Romero/Nate Karns to fight off for #5 spot. That is not including the idea that Tampa acquires a Potential #1-3 SP like Walker is when Price is dealt.

 

What good does Nelson do for them? They have a clear need for an OF/SS/1b/C/2b and they would trade away Zobrist to acquire Nelson Because they can use Nelson? It's blatantly dumb to me for them to not seek out an Offensive Prospect for Zobrist because Nelson IS a Prospect as are all those in line for the #5 SP job Tampa has. All those guys have to create a value to be worth something in trade. Tampa can't just trade Zobrist for Nelson and then proceed to ask LA to give them Joc Pederson for Nelson. Or Austin Meadows for Nelson. Ask for Jorge Soler for Nelson.

 

The point is, if they want to get some punch in that Offense, when they trade Zobrist/Price asking for a Pitching Prospect like Nelson is a losing situation imo. Because Teams aren't going to trade their top Offensive Hitting Prospects to take Nelson/Colome/Romero/Karns/Guerrieri. They'll ask for Moore/maybe Archer or Cobb(though his value is down I believe ever since that bean ball)

 

How does that work for Tampa? If those newly added SPs replacing Price/Archer in that scenario fail? Great, you found 1 more Offensive bat (maybe 2) while trading away what had been a strength pitching?

 

Zobrist won't be coming to Milwaukee even if Nelson is the offer it just make no sense.

 

 

As to the Milw with Prospects that rate above a ML Avg ballplayer. Go ahead name them off for me at the moment. Maybe I should state what a above ML Avg ballplayer would be which to me is a Starter who offers constant 2.5+WAR seasons over at minimum 4 years of his 6 years team control.

[DuWayne Steurer]

These players could be traded 3-5 years from now for prospects. It's a 360 all the way around as long as the money is there, which it is. I fail to see your point.

 

 

Using your "EXTEND EVERYBODY!" approach, including your quoted offer of 8/175 for Price, I suspect some of the contracts you'll be offering would be extremely untradeable.

[PrinceFielderx1]

These players could be traded 3-5 years from now for prospects. It's a 360 all the way around as long as the money is there, which it is. I fail to see your point.

 

 

Using your "EXTEND EVERYBODY!" approach, including your quoted offer of 8/175 for Price, I suspect some of the contracts you'll be offering would be extremely untradeable.

 

have you ever heard of an "opt out clause?" See CC Sabathia.

[logan82]

We can always trade guys is the mantra we always hear whenever there is a questionable signing. Wolf, Suppan, and Lohse come to mind immediately. Players get worse as the contract goes on so if they are not traded withing the first couple years they end up being overpaid and untradable.

 

The only reason a guy would opt out is if they think they can make more money. If they are worth more money we don't want to let them go. If our team operated as you suggest we would be decimated for years. The Astros would laugh at us.

[monty57]

I like the idea of extending players, but I think it's best used for extending young stars while they're in their pre-arby years. A contract like Lucroy's or Braun's first deal don't bear that much risk for the team relative to the potential return from the player during the deal.

 

Melvin has been somewhat successful with offering extensions to guys who have questionable early careers, but have put together a good season or two. Again, these contracts aren't overly expensive, so the downside of getting something like a Bill Hall result shouldn't sink the team, while a result like that of Gomez can really help the team.

 

Extending someone who is nearly a free agent bears the most risk, as the contract is basically a free agent deal. As in free agency, we don't have much chance of re-signing the superstars once they reach this level, so we historically have only extended "second tier" guys here. Examples are Weeks and Hart. Basically, the only advantage to doing this is that a rogue team can't come in and make a ridiculous offer to drive up the price, but my thought is that if the player wasn't worthy of extending earlier in their career, they probably shouldn't be extended in their final arby year.

 

Price would fall into the final group, as the superstar who is already so close to free agency, that it would make little sense for him to sign an extension. At this point, unless the Brewers (or whoever he's traded to) offers a ridiculous amount, he would be better off to go to free agency and see if a bidding war gets him far more then the "experts" predict. The teams that are being rumored to get Price are Seattle, St Louis, and the Dodgers. That means we're competing with teams that will probably offer deals built around Walker, Tavares, and Pederson. I don't think we can come close to beating those offers.

 

Bottom line, if we go to the Rays and say "we'll give you Nelson, Coulter and Haniger," they'll say "that's great... throw in Lucroy or we're going to take the Cardinals deal centered around Tavares" at which point we hang up the phone and move on to plan B.

[JohnBriggs12]

ESPN was saying this morning that after a 5 game winning streak, Rays consider themselves still in it in the AL East. Might be up to the Brewers to deal them a knockout blow next week.

[brewcrewdue80]

Rays 7game winning streak and honestly a poor AL East, I'm thinking they don't sell anymore. Though I'm thinking Price is still very much there to be had, and even with a continued winning ways, is dealt. I'm thinking Zobrist isn't going to be traded anymore. Not much left to be seen here.

[Eye Black]

Found this article interesting...

 

Beat Rays, and Brewers raise their chances to get David Price

By Jon Paul Morosi / Fox Sports

 

The Brewers, by defeating the Rays the next three days, could improve their chances in two different races.

 

The one for the National League Central title.

 

And the one to land Rays left-hander David Price.

 

The Brewers are among the teams to express interest in Price, according to major league sources. Their inquiry was akin to putting their "foot in the water," one source said.

 

The Rays, however, are still mulling whether they will even trade Price. They enter Monday's play 7-1/2 games out in the American League East and stand only a 7 percent chance of winning the division and 13.5 percent chance of reaching the postseason, according to Fangraphs.

 

A sweep by the Brewers leading to Thursday's non-waiver deadline at 4 p.m. ET would make those odds even steeper. Even then, the Brewers would be a long shot to land Price, particularly when the division rival Cardinals, another potential suitor for the All-Star left-hander, possess one of the deepest farm systems in baseball.

 

To get Price, sources say, the Brewers would need to include players from their major league roster; the team's farm system, while improving, could not provide enough talent to entice the Rays.

 

The Mariners and Dodgers also are in the mix for Price, sources say, and some within the industry believe that the Cubs will make a play for the All-Star lefty, who has a 1.88 ERA in his past 11 starts and a major-league-leading 183 strikeouts and only 21 walks on the season.

 

The Brewers' chances would hinge in part on owner Mark Attanasio, who often is aggressive in trying to obtain talent. The team's only two playoff appearances in the past 31 years came after Attanasio authorized general manager Doug Melvin to trade for elite starters -- CC Sabathia in the July 2008 and Zack Greinke in December 2010.

 

Price, 28, would give the Brewers the ace that they currently lack. And though the team's farm system is rated next-to-last in the majors by Baseball America, the organization is not devoid of prospects.

 

Foremost among them: Right-hander Jimmy Nelson, who has a 1.46 ERA in 111 innings at Triple-A this season and a 5.06 ERA in 16 innings in the majors. The Brewers also boast several promising position players in the Class A Florida State and Midwest leagues, including center fielder Tyrone Taylor, 20; shortstop Orlando Arcia, 19; and catcher Clint Coulter, 20.

 

The Rays, though, almost certainly could get players closer to the majors from other clubs. The Brewers also might determine that Price ultimately would be too expensive. His salary could jump to as much as $20 million next season in his final year of arbitration before free agency, likely reducing the number of suitors if his next team wanted to trade him this offseason.

 

The next three games could help determine whether trade conversations accelerate. Every team interested in Price should, at the very least, root for the Brewers to win the first two.

 

Price's next scheduled start is the third game against Milwaukee, Wednesday at 12:10 p.m. ET.

 

Whether he takes the mound remains to be seen.

[brewer1]

Also written in the past few days was an article on a rays fan site that the Brewers could by the mystery team that could swoop in and get Price. According to the author of the article the package the Brewers would have to send would be along the lines of Nelson, Coulter and Thornburg. Not sure how many would be willing to give that up for 1 1/2 years of Price.

[fondybrewfan]

If getting Price means we have to trade our top 3 or 4 guys in the system I really don't want to do it. Yes Price is awesome and would be a huge boost to the team; but man our minor league system would suck so bad. Every single one of our good prospects wouldn't be any higher than WI next year.

[pogokat]

I want zobrist, who could be had for a lot less than price, so maybe that would happen instead.

[KCBrewerfan34]

How better is Price than Nelson? We get Price for 1 1/2 years and we get Nelson for 6 years, this is a tough one. Can we even trade Thornburg since he's on the DL??

[jvrocksaz]

Also written in the past few days was an article on a rays fan site that the Brewers could by the mystery team that could swoop in and get Price. According to the author of the article the package the Brewers would have to send would be along the lines of Nelson, Coulter and Thornburg. Not sure how many would be willing to give that up for 1 1/2 years of Price.

 

 

I would definitely do a package for Price starting with those three. The Brewers could always flip Price this off season or at next years trade deadline for a package similar to what we got for Greinke a few years back. This way we have Price for a World Series run this year and get back something going forward.

 

Imagine a Price, Lohse, Garza, Gallardo and Peralta rotation to finish out the year...

[monty57]

Also written in the past few days was an article on a rays fan site that the Brewers could by the mystery team that could swoop in and get Price. According to the author of the article the package the Brewers would have to send would be along the lines of Nelson, Coulter and Thornburg. Not sure how many would be willing to give that up for 1 1/2 years of Price.

 

That wouldn't do it. The Mariners will float Walker, and the Cardinals will float Tavares. If we want Price, Nelson would be part of the deal, but we'd have to add someone from the MLB team, as we don't have enough in the minors to keep up with the other suitors.

 

Gennett's season makes him desirable, so potentially Nelson and Gennett? I still don't think this is a better offer than Walker or Tavares plus some other prospects. If it's not, then we'd really have to do something like Lucroy or Gomez for Price, which is (or at least should be) an obvious no-go.

 

So, in that light, would you give up Gennett, Nelson and maybe Taylor or Coulter for Price? That's probably our best realistic offer, I wouldn't want to do it, and I still think it wouldn't be the accepted offer. My guess is that if traded, Price will end up in Seattle (Walker), St Louis (Tavares) or LA (Pederson). In any of these cases, Tampa would be receiving a potential superstar, which trumps our offer of potentially good players.

[3and2Fastball]

Brewers are going after David Price. I have a few contacts in pro baseball. Rumor is Tampa Bay wants Jimmy Nelson, Tyler Thornburg & Clint Coulter. If I were Doug Melvin I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. David Price for 1.5 years? Yes, please

[JohnBriggs12]

Taveras has struggled for the Cardinals and doesn't appear to be as major league ready as everyone thought.

 

Nobody's mentioned Khris Davis as a possibility in a Price deal That would leave a hole in LF that would have to be filled but there are short term solutions for corner OF types.

 

I think the Brewers have the pieces to make a very nice offer centered around Nelson and they could move Price next year or ride him to the 2015 playoffs too. I'm not sure I'd do it, but Attanasio has the track record so anything's possible though unless they take 2 of 3 from Rays, I think Price stays put.

 

One big thing would be keeping him away from St. Louis.

 

Brewers' system has taken clear strides forward this year. A Price deal would definitely negate some of those gains but if you project the Brewers into the playoffs, having him as the ace give them a decent chance to get pretty far.

[Invader3K]

I just really don't like the idea of giving up Nelson. I don't think I'd want to do this trade if it means giving him up.

[monty57]

If that is indeed what Tampa is asking for, given his m.o., I would imagine Melvin will make the deal

 

Can they trade Thornburg, who is on the DL?

[3and2Fastball]

If that is indeed what Tampa is asking for, given his m.o., I would imagine Melvin will make the deal

 

Can they trade Thornburg, who is on the DL?

 

"Player to be named later"

[TooLiveBrew]

The fact that the Rays want Coulter makes me 100% not want to see him included. I don't agree with shipping out Nelson, either.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Going into the deadline I figured starting pitching was the least of our needs, but I must admit the idea of this makes me salivate. Especially heading into potential playoff matchups with the likes of Kershaw, Wainright, or the deep staffs of the Giants and Nationals, adding Price would make me a lot more confident about a deep playoff run. Obviously what they ask for in return is always of the utmost importance, but I'm on board. Make it happen Mark and Doug.