Trade partner - Tampa Bay Rays [Latest -- rumored ask for David Price: Nelson, Thornburg, & Coulter (post #94)]

[LouisEly]

If the Brewers decide to go for it, I think a good trading partner might be the Tampa Bay Rays. I think one of the biggest problems the Brewers have is lack of LH/RH balance in their lineup. Vs. RH starters the Brewers rank 21st in the league in OPS and 22nd in the league in OBP (not including tonight's start against Teheran, which is looking like it could drop those numbers even further). The Rays have a couple of players who could help.

 

1) James Loney - debated during last offseason, he doesn't have much power but his .373 OBP would look good in the lineup and his .768 OPS would be a big upgrade over Overbay. Reasonable contract.

 

2) Ben Zobrist - has played all over the diamond, so I don't think it would be a stretch for him to play 1B adequately. Has the size for it at 6'3". He's also played enough SS that he could probably play 3B adequately as well, and perhaps the only reason he hasn't played 3B is that the Rays have Longoria. Age may be getting to him, but if it is he's only owed a $500K buyout for next season. Being a switch-hitter, it could allow the Brewers to get rid of both Overbay and Reynolds and possibly keep Wang. Power is down this year, but his .352 OBP is about his career average and would be a nice addition to the lineup.

 

3) Matt Joyce - I think he's one of the more underrated players in the league. OBP is almost always .100 higher than his BA; his OPS was down the last two years but it was mostly because his BA was down; now that his BA is up this year his OPS is back up and his OBP of .372 would look really nice in the lineup. Career .343 OBP.

 

Problem is that Joyce plays the same position as Khris Davis. But Joyce is more productive. What type of value would Davis have to the Rays? 1st year arby 2016 and not a FA until 2019, so he's cheap for a while.

 

Would Khris Davis be enough to get one of Zobrist/Loney + Joyce? If so, would you do it? If not, what would need to be added to Davis to get Zobrist/Loney + Joyce? Zobrist has a team option of $7.5 for next year w/$500K buyout and Joyce is 3rd year arby next year and FA in 2016 so they aren't under control for long, and Tampa may not want to pay them a combined $11M plus next year.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm guessing that Tampa would want to pillage the young pitching for any of those guys. That would probably mean Nelson. Because of the contract, they may go lower on Loney, but it would still require decent prospects. Longtime board favorite David DeJesus would probably be gettable for a more reasonable price though.

[LouisEly]

Of course that's what they would want. Anyone would ask for Nelson. But no way are those guys worth Nelson - not at their ages with their contracts/free agency up so soon. Nelson could command a 23-year-old Zobrist who could play 3B, not a 33-year-old Zobrist.

[HiAndTight]

Of course that's what they would want. Anyone would ask for Nelson. But no way are those guys worth Nelson - not at their ages with their contracts/free agency up so soon. Nelson could command a 23-year-old Zobrist who could play 3B, not a 33-year-old Zobrist.

 

 

Zobrist has been a ~6 WAR player the past 5 years(prior to this year). So despite his early struggles, I think it would take a Nelson type prospect to get him..which I would certainly hope we wouldn't consider.

 

The guy can play anywhere and is a switch hitter. He's going to be extremely valuable. Plus he only costs 7 million this year and 7 million next year. I think next years contract makes him more valuable, not less. I would think a lot of teams would have interest in him.

 

Loney is exactly the type of player this team needs. LH'ed bat, good OBP, and if the Rays aren't in it this year, and with Moore's injury, Cobb and Helickson being injured(as well as Zobrist at the moment) he would seem to be the most likely option.

 

All three would be great, but unless we're willing to deal any of our top prospects, which again, I hope we don't(Nelson, Coulter, Taylor) I think they'll get better offers.

 

 

I think it's going to be really interesting to see what the Rays do this summer if they're out of it. They have a chance to really re-load their farm system with these three, Price and even Balfour if he gets it together.

[pogokat]

zobrist is currently injured, and may miss a bit of time---and has lost a good deal of both his power and speed

[HiAndTight]

zobrist is currently injured, and may miss a bit of time---and has lost a good deal of both his power and speed

 

 

Yes, he's on the DL, but he's expected back as soon as he's eligible to come off and the Rays hesitated even putting him on the DL as they believed he may not need two weeks to recover.

 

And sure, he's lost some power and speed. His overall numbers were down last year, but he had a nice 2nd half in which his power was back up and his OPS was about .800. A pretty valuable asset as he can play pretty much every position other than C. He still plays SS for the Rays from time to time. Obviously he's not ideal as a SS, but here and there he's fine.

 

 

I really hope I'm wrong and he's available for less than I'm thinking he'll be. He'd be a perfect fit in Milwaukee. He and Loney could solve a whole lot of our problems.

[brewcrewdue80]

You just can't trade for Loney. The guy was a Free Agent and we avoided him when all it would have taken was a few more million than what was tied up in Overbay/Reynolds combo. Now we add his contrace we didn't want...And give up a top 10 prospect in our farm for him?

 

As to Zobrist and what kind of value he's worth. Can you sell to them Davis along with say Hellweg or Pena? Davis gives them a sorta DH/OF option to platoon with Wil Myers and be replacement of Matt Joyce. You then figure Pena/Hellweg gives Tampa a late inning BP piece. While saving some much needed Payroll for 1+years of Zobrist' contrace left. I think that's a good deal to them.

 

That deal would then imo open the door to trade for Joc Pederson of the Dodgers. Dodgers clearly have a 4 man OF problem not just now/today but for 3 more years! Nobody in their right mind trades for the 21mil+/yr contract Kemp is owed through 2019. The 20+mil/yr contract Crawford is owed through 2017. The approx 18mil owed per year Ethier contract through 2017. They also have Scott Van Slyke as a 5th OF who's doing quite well.

Could you get Pederson then for Nelson? The rare Prospect for Prospect trade that just makes sense for both clubs? The Dodgers can't continue to press there luck trotting out Haren/Beckett for the back end of their rotation and Nelson would help secure their future back end without costing 10+mil doing so after this season.

And yes, I would trade Nelson for Pederson heads up because he appears to be a long term solution to play OF while possessing avg or better tools all around Defensively and Offensively. The Brewers have enough Depth at SP right now to trade away Nelson.

 

Adding Zobrist/Pederson to the Brewers Offense would really improve the depth in the lineup to backup the pitching. This could be a legit 2 year run at World Series competitiveness.

[endaround]

Loney signed a 3 year deal, so no it wouldn't be a few million more.

[monty57]

You just can't trade for Loney. The guy was a Free Agent and we avoided him when all it would have taken was a few more million than what was tied up in Overbay/Reynolds combo. Now we add his contrace we didn't want...And give up a top 10 prospect in our farm for him?

 

As to Zobrist and what kind of value he's worth. Can you sell to them Davis along with say Hellweg or Pena? Davis gives them a sorta DH/OF option to platoon with Wil Myers and be replacement of Matt Joyce. You then figure Pena/Hellweg gives Tampa a late inning BP piece. While saving some much needed Payroll for 1+years of Zobrist' contrace left. I think that's a good deal to them.

 

That deal would then imo open the door to trade for Joc Pederson of the Dodgers. Dodgers clearly have a 4 man OF problem not just now/today but for 3 more years! Nobody in their right mind trades for the 21mil+/yr contract Kemp is owed through 2019. The 20+mil/yr contract Crawford is owed through 2017. The approx 18mil owed per year Ethier contract through 2017. They also have Scott Van Slyke as a 5th OF who's doing quite well.

Could you get Pederson then for Nelson? The rare Prospect for Prospect trade that just makes sense for both clubs? The Dodgers can't continue to press there luck trotting out Haren/Beckett for the back end of their rotation and Nelson would help secure their future back end without costing 10+mil doing so after this season.

And yes, I would trade Nelson for Pederson heads up because he appears to be a long term solution to play OF while possessing avg or better tools all around Defensively and Offensively. The Brewers have enough Depth at SP right now to trade away Nelson.

 

Adding Zobrist/Pederson to the Brewers Offense would really improve the depth in the lineup to backup the pitching. This could be a legit 2 year run at World Series competitiveness.

 

The "new" Dodger ownership does not look for a prospect to throw into their rotation. If we were to trade with them, they would want one of our MLB starting pitchers, and we would be the ones putting Nelson into the MLB rotation. That's better for us as well, because I don't want to lose 3/5 of our rotation after next year with Nelson in someone else's MLB rotation and Thornburg cemented in as closer. If the right deal were out there, trading one of Gallardo, Estrada or Lohse for a young position player who could help the team now and for years into the future might be a good move. I think this is much more likely this offseason, but if the right deal arose mid-season it could help now and later.

 

As to Davis, how much trade value does he have? He was never heralded as a prospect, hit better than anyone would have guessed last year, and is now struggling. I think he has a future as a MLB player (he's better than he's playing now), but I don't think other teams are going to give up a lot to find out. If the Rays wanted to trade Zobrist in your scenario, they'd be better off just sending him to the Dodgers for Pederson and skipping the middle man (Milwaukee).

[brewcrewdue80]

Loney signed a 3 year deal, so no it wouldn't be a few million more.

 

3.5mil for Reynolds/Overbay this year. 16mil total for Loney and 3years. 5.33mil avg per year. Assuming a patchwork 1b with even minimum payroll after this year(approx 2mil) It is just a few mil more.

 

The "new" Dodger ownership does not look for a prospect to throw into their rotation.

 

You see it that way. Ryu was a Prospect they went out and signed. Young Controlled Pitching is a hot commodity that all teams covet. Just because LA bought Grienke that means they only go for buying their pitching? They can afford to buy the best 1yr/2yr available pitcher on the market yes(Haren) but it's patchwork that has trouble written all over it when it blows up in their face. My scenario is giving LA a longer termed solution that allows them to turn their attention elsewhere. They don't have a roster spot for Pederson and he's wasting valuable playing time/value sitting in AAA. Now, Both Nelson and Pederson are prospects. It's safe to assume Nelson will get his ML playing time sooner than Pederson. A successful begin to his career could wipe out what is an equal value in thought trade currently. Now, Nelson ends up staying on the team and LA is left signing Gallardo to a 2-3year 50-65mil deal after this season. And still don't have a solution to the Pederson problem. Their back end of the rotation is worse next 3years while costing 50+mil. Nelson becomes the one that got away.

 

 

"As to Davis, how much trade value does he have? He was never heralded as a prospect, hit better than anyone would have guessed last year, and is now struggling. I think he has a future as a MLB player (he's better than he's playing now), but I don't think other teams are going to give up a lot to find out. If the Rays wanted to trade Zobrist in your scenario, they'd be better off just sending him to the Dodgers for Pederson and skipping the middle man"

 

Does Zobrist Pitch? LA Trading away Pederson for 1+years of Zobrist to fill a utility IF situation seems like a waste. Yeah Tampa gets who they need for an OF but LA doesn't really gain much in getting Zobrist.

And then there's Davis and his lack of herald for a prospect. Well that comes with not having a strong set of overall tools. He's not fast and doesn't have an arm, was older. That is more than enough to never list him highly as a prospect. But can he hit? He has 5HRs thus far on the season and that would put him as Team Leader on Tampa if he were on that team. Tampa has Matt Joyce/David Dejesus as their LF/DH Both have this season and next season left before likely departing via FA. Davis becomes the heir apparent to either role. Tampa can stuff Davis in AAA to work on him too or just use him as a Power Bench bat that spells Myers/Joyce/Dejesus a day off. The trade wasn't just Zobrist for Davis. But to toss in a Power Armed Relief Pitcher in Hellweg or Pena that also have cheap long team controll attached to it. I think that's a winning trade for Tampa for 1+ years of an aging Zobrist. If Davis becomes a .270/.345 27-35HR DH/backup OF wouldn't that be good enough? The things Davis was knocked on as a Prospect(speed/arm) don't apply if he's being used at DH. I believe Davis will improve as the season goes on and he's going to have a Corey Hart like slash line for his career. Wouldn't you trade Zobrist's 1+years left contract for 4+ years of that with a RP to boot?

[HiAndTight]

You just can't trade for Loney. The guy was a Free Agent and we avoided him when all it would have taken was a few more million than what was tied up in Overbay/Reynolds combo. Now we add his contrace we didn't want...And give up a top 10 prospect in our farm for him?

 

I don't see what difference this makes? So we made the wrong choice regarding 1st base coming into the year. Loney is having another very good year and is a very good defensive 1st basemen. It also allows Reynolds to play 3rd base in Aram's absence..which in a best case scenario means he plays for the next couple weeks and then fills in on occasion for ARam the rest of the year.

 

But because we made a mistake, I don't see why we should compound the mistake by not trading for Loney. How would it be better to trade a prospect for a worse option who wasn't a FA this past off-season?

 

3.5mil for Reynolds/Overbay this year. 16mil total for Loney and 3years. 5.33mil avg per year. Assuming a patchwork 1b with even minimum payroll after this year(approx 2mil) It is just a few mil more.

 

 

Loney signed a 3 year 21 million dollar deal. According to Baseball Reference, Loney is only earning 2.6 million dollars this year. His contract is still affordable the next two years at 8.6 and 9.6.

 

So it's a little bit more this year, not the next two years.

But again, so what? We'd be keeping Reynolds and dumping Overbay. Reynolds can do more than Overbay.

 

The point though is to improve the team. Loney is a significant upgrade and he's not that expensive. What we could or should have done doesn't really matter right now, does it?

As to Zobrist and what kind of value he's worth. Can you sell to them Davis along with say Hellweg or Pena? Davis gives them a sorta DH/OF option to platoon with Wil Myers and be replacement of Matt Joyce.

 

Meyers is a right handed hitter who hits both lefties and right handers very well, and is a middle of the order type hitter. I doubt they would platoon him even if Davis was a leftie. It just doesn't make sense.

 

 

And yes, I would trade Nelson for Pederson heads up because he appears to be a long term solution to play OF while possessing avg or better tools all around Defensively and Offensively. The Brewers have enough Depth at SP right now to trade away Nelson.

 

They might have enough pitching on May 22nd, 2014. I don't really see how they have enough pitching going forward though when you consider that Gallardo has been declining and has one option year left, Lohse is in his late 30's and one year left on his contract, Estrada has never made it through a full season.

 

We've finally built a deep group of young pitchers(relatively deep group). Why would we want to give that up now?

 

That's better for us as well, because I don't want to lose 3/5 of our rotation after next year with Nelson in someone else's MLB rotation and Thornburg cemented in as closer.

 

 

I agree with you that I don't want to trade Nelson, but I also don't think Thornburg is cemented into the rotation as our future closer, or even a reliever right now. Both Melvin and Roenicke have said repeatedly that he would likely be given a shot to start again in the future, but right now he is helping the team out the most as a reliever. His success there doesn't mean he's automatically going to stay there.

[superfly]

A Matt Joyce / Khris Davis platoon would be among the best platoons in the entire league. Freaking good. I think it's too early to pull the plug on Davis though, we need to let him work through it...after all we dumped Aoki off to give him the chance. It's only been a month and a half.

[brewcrewdue80]

Hi and Tight.

About the Myers/Davis Platoon. Sorry wrong use of word in getting my thought across. The idea to me was to Play Davis in RF and DH Myers giving him a day off from the field while still keeping his bat in the lineup. And Davis would DH typically over Dejesus. Really the idea was to get Davis' power bat in to Tampa's lineup in any form. Myers is having a slumpish start thus far on this season. To me giving him a couple days off to just focus on hitting and not having to worry about fielding here and there may get him going.(Could do the same with Davis platooning them at DH)

 

Oh and I went to BRef to check Loney's salary prior to my posting and what I seen was 1mil this year 7 the next 8 then on the 3rd. Somehow you got higher numbers? I missed something apparently....I'm on his player page now on BRef and nope it states 1mil this year 7/8...But it does say 3/21mil for his contract on the top.

 

The reason I don't want to trade for Loney is we are most likely giving up a MLB contributing player. Or one of out better draft picks(Taylor/Jungmann/Roache/Coulter) that to me has 1mil+ value tied to it being a 1st rd player quality. Tie that in to the difference in cost between 1b this year/next/3rd year and what Loney makes it's crazy to me to have been so dumb to not just sign him for that few extra million a year If:

your Plan D/E/F whatever it is was if Overbay/Reynolds/Juan Fran/Morris/Halton didn't pan out, you would consider trading away that 1st rd quality player to get Loney at that point.

 

As to the Pitching depth looking forward. Jungmann is coming along. Garza,Peralta. did you forget the SP abilities/potentials of Thornburg/Smith? and banish them to a Bullpen roll forever now that they are there? By my count after next season that is Peralta,Garza, Jungmann 1,2,3 with Thornburg,Smith, 4/5 and in reserve Fiers/Pena/Hellweg(1 has to pan out back of the rotation)

With Gallardo's/Lohse+Weeks/Ramirez pay off the books I'm sure another SP could be bought too if there needs to be one added via FA.

[HiAndTight]

Hi and Tight.

About the Myers/Davis Platoon. Sorry wrong use of word in getting my thought across. The idea to me was to Play Davis in RF and DH Myers giving him a day off from the field while still keeping his bat in the lineup. And Davis would DH typically over Dejesus. Really the idea was to get Davis' power bat in to Tampa's lineup in any form. Myers is having a slumpish start thus far on this season. To me giving him a couple days off to just focus on hitting and not having to worry about fielding here and there may get him going.(Could do the same with Davis platooning them at DH)

 

Gotcha. That certainly makes sense. The problem however is that I don't believe Davis really has much value right now. Even if I agree with you(and I'm on the fence) that Davis would turn into .270/.345 27-35HR, why would Tampa Bay or any other organization share such a belief? Yeah, if you think Davis is going to be that good, then of course teams would want him. But if we believe he's going to be that good, why bother trading him? To me right now he's a guy who's pretty unproven. He had a very nice run last year, but he wasn't an elite prospect and he's struggled really badly in his other two stints in the big leagues.

 

As for Meyers, yeah, he's struggling. But he's going to be a stud. Maybe just DH'ing for a little while or here and there could help, but for a lot of players, that just makes them more anxious for their AB's since they're not really a part of the game other than their AB's.

Oh and I went to BRef to check Loney's salary prior to my posting and what I seen was 1mil this year 7 the next 8 then on the 3rd. Somehow you got higher numbers? I missed something apparently....I'm on his player page now on BRef and nope it states 1mil this year 7/8...But it does say 3/21mil for his contract on the top.

 

Yeah, not sure how it's structured exactly. Cots usually has the best(more accurate numbers). He definitely signed a 1 year 21 million dollar deal. Cots says it's structured the way I wrote. Baseball Reference's numbers aren't accurate here.

 

The reason I don't want to trade for Loney is we are most likely giving up a MLB contributing player. Or one of out better draft picks(Taylor/Jungmann/Roache/Coulter) that to me has 1mil+ value tied to it being a 1st rd player quality. Tie that in to the difference in cost between 1b this year/next/3rd year and what Loney makes it's crazy to me to have been so dumb to not just sign him for that few extra million a year If:

your Plan D/E/F whatever it is was if Overbay/Reynolds/Juan Fran/Morris/Halton didn't pan out, you would consider trading away that 1st rd quality player to get Loney at that point.

 

 

You say it was stupid to not sign him as if signing a player is entirely up to us. Loney played in Tampa Bay last year. He had a career resurgence last year while playing in Tampa, they were a clear cut contender before Moore, Cobb, Hellickson and others went on the DL. So perhaps he chose Tampa over Milwaukee. Plus, he's also increased his value by performing even better this year(he's not hitting for a lot of power, but he is putting up a .311/.375 line which would really be a great fit batting leadoff for the Brewers).

 

Plus I don't understand why you'd be reluctant to deal Roache or Jungman when you're on board with dealing Jimmy Nelson. That's baffling. Nelson has front of the rotation type stuff, and he's performing like a potential front of the rotation type pitcher right now. I'd give up Roache in a heartbeat for James Loney. Probably not Taylor and certainly not Coulter.

 

As to the Pitching depth looking forward. Jungmann is coming along. Garza,Peralta. did you forget the SP abilities/potentials of Thornburg/Smith? and banish them to a Bullpen roll forever now that they are there? By my count after next season that is Peralta,Garza, Jungmann 1,2,3 with Thornburg,Smith, 4/5 and in reserve Fiers/Pena/Hellweg(1 has to pan out back of the rotation)

With Gallardo's/Lohse+Weeks/Ramirez pay off the books I'm sure another SP could be bought too if there needs to be one added via FA.

 

I didn't forget about, or "banish," anybody. In fact, that question should have been answered when I specifically stated that I thought Thornburg would be given a chance to start in my very last post. But what I didn't want to do was trade the best pitching prospect of all the guys you've mentioned.

 

What has Hellweg or Pena done for the record to give you ANY type of confidence they can be really good pitchers?

Garza is a good pitcher, but he's been pretty consistently injured the last couple years. It's anything but a stretch that his contract is not going to work out great. I doubt he pitches 800 innings over the 4 years of his deal. I'll be happy with ~550-575 from him.

Jungman looks like a nice innings eater at this point, not a lot more. Could very well end up being a reliever. Either way, I don't want to count on him to be in the rotation after next year.

Thornburg and Smith look good. But hitting on really good pitching is having numbers.

I want the Brewers to build a rotation with young, preferably cheap, POWER pitchers. Nobody else has the upside of Nelson in our farm system right now. He has a mid 90's fastball he gets a lot of GB's with,

 

And if we find ourselves in the position of having excess funds to spend on starting pitchers from the roughly 50-55 million dollars coming off the roster from Yo, Aram, Weeks and Lohse, we would probably be better served signing position players where I believe you get a better return on your investment.

 

But no matter what type of talent we've got, even if we had 5 aces in our rotation for the foreseeable future, why would we trade a player for less than he's worth? That's kinda your argument here. Nelson is expendable because we have other guys.

[HiAndTight]

A Matt Joyce / Khris Davis platoon would be among the best platoons in the entire league. Freaking good. I think it's too early to pull the plug on Davis though, we need to let him work through it...after all we dumped Aoki off to give him the chance. It's only been a month and a half.

 

 

 

We didn't exactly "dump," Aoki. We traded him for a 24 year old power lefty who can SU, Close or, hopefully in the future, start.

 

And if you believe Davis should be platooned, you're saying he should only play roughly twice a week. So you're advocating pulling the plug on him more than someone suggesting we trade him for a good everyday big league player right now.

[monty57]

I agree with you that I don't want to trade Nelson, but I also don't think Thornburg is cemented into the rotation as our future closer, or even a reliever right now. Both Melvin and Roenicke have said repeatedly that he would likely be given a shot to start again in the future, but right now he is helping the team out the most as a reliever. His success there doesn't mean he's automatically going to stay there.

 

I agree, but if we went with the proposed trade, we would be returning our starting five from this year, along with Pederson in the OF and no Nelson in the minors. That trade was "sold" as "This could be a legit 2 year run at World Series competitiveness." In that light, Thornburg would almost certainly be used as a late inning reliever. So, after two full seasons in late inning relief, when we lose Gallardo, Lohse and Estrada to free agency after this 2-year run, Thornburg could already be considered the closer. At the very least, he would be two years removed from having been a starter.

 

I don't think this is the best idea, but it is likely how it would play out if we traded our best prospect right now in order to go for it over the two-year window (this year and next) in which we have the current starting rotation.

 

You see it that way. Ryu was a Prospect they went out and signed. Young Controlled Pitching is a hot commodity that all teams covet. Just because LA bought Grienke that means they only go for buying their pitching? They can afford to buy the best 1yr/2yr available pitcher on the market yes(Haren) but it's patchwork that has trouble written all over it when it blows up in their face. My scenario is giving LA a longer termed solution that allows them to turn their attention elsewhere. They don't have a roster spot for Pederson and he's wasting valuable playing time/value sitting in AAA. Now, Both Nelson and Pederson are prospects. It's safe to assume Nelson will get his ML playing time sooner than Pederson. A successful begin to his career could wipe out what is an equal value in thought trade currently. Now, Nelson ends up staying on the team and LA is left signing Gallardo to a 2-3year 50-65mil deal after this season. And still don't have a solution to the Pederson problem. Their back end of the rotation is worse next 3years while costing 50+mil. Nelson becomes the one that got away.

 

That's why if I'm the Brewers I trade away one of the guys from the current MLB roster and not Nelson. The Dodgers would very likely prefer "proven" to add to their staff right now, and the Brewers would be foolish to trade away a good MLB-ready guy who they control for six more years in order to hold onto Gallardo, Lohse and Estrada for a two-year window.

 

The idea to me was to Play Davis in RF

 

Davis can't play RF. He can't even play 1B. He is either a LF or a DH.

 

Myers is having a slumpish start thus far on this season.

 

But he's still an elite talent. If the thought is that the Rays are down this season and therefore willing to trade away veteran players, they certainly aren't going to platoon/bench one of their best young players. That's the perfect opportunity to let him play for the experience.

 

If Davis becomes a .270/.345 27-35HR DH/backup OF wouldn't that be good enough? The things Davis was knocked on as a Prospect(speed/arm) don't apply if he's being used at DH. I believe Davis will improve as the season goes on and he's going to have a Corey Hart like slash line for his career. Wouldn't you trade Zobrist's 1+years left contract for 4+ years of that with a RP to boot?

 

No one knows what Davis will become, and if the Rays trade Zobrist, they will be able to get a better deal than Davis (who you already want to trade even though you argue that you think he's going to put up All Star numbers) and a RP who may never put it together to have a MLB career. Now, if Davis really is going to be a .900 OPS guy, wouldn't we be far better off just letting him play through his struggles this year and then get five All Star seasons out of him. Or, if we're going to trade him, shouldn't we wait for one of those 35 HR seasons, when we could trade him for anyone in the league? There really aren't many players in the league who put up the numbers you're suggesting that Davis will achieve. If you truly believe he's that guy, then why on earth would you trade him away and then trade our best pitching prospect for another OF to replace Davis?

[Outlander]

And if you believe Davis should be platooned, you're saying he should only play roughly twice a week. So you're advocating pulling the plug on him more than someone suggesting we trade him for a good everyday big league player right now.

 

I get what you are saying but if the Brewers get Joyce or somebody else it may look like a platoon at times but Davis will still get his fair share of starts against righties. Braun seems to always have nagging injuries at this point and will take a number of days off during the rest of the year. It would just seem that the team would be much better to have a guy like Davis/Joyce/somebody else as the extra outfielder instead of Herrera or even a Gindl. Same thing when Ramirez is hurt would seem better to have Green playing instead of Overbay or Bianchi. Just small things like that would make the team better.

[brewcrewdue80]

Monty-

When it comes to pitching I feel that only Lohse or Peralta would be wanted by the Dodgers for Pederson(+some other prospect) I can't fathom why Milwaukee would trade away their top two Starters in a year they see themselves as Playoff Contenders. So to me LA would target Nelson for Pederson because that is just how the talks work out. LA doesn't want Estrada/Garza/Gallardo and the Brewers won't part with Lohse/Peralta.

 

Sorry I mixed the RF term next to Davis and meant LF. I do see Davis as having that potential .850+OPS ability. It just comes at the cost of being liable in the OF. That long term for Davis he's better playing a mix of DH/LF and not just LF. That is why I consider him expendable because his bat won't play up his defense overall.

 

I'm not saying Bench Myers due to his struggles. I'm saying give Davis starts in the OF and bat Myers DH. Myers will never be benched until he's likely 36.

 

Why trade Davis away for Zobrist? and trade Nelson away for Pederson. To me Pederson is better than Davis. Zobrist is better than Bianchi.+Weeks/Gennett. Losing Nelson for Pederson is a 6year for 6year trade. We would lose Davis 5+years for 1+years of Zobrist.

 

To me the team has the pitching to compete this year. But they don't have the Offensive punch (BA/OB) guys they need that Pederson(hoping) and Zobrist would add to the team. My guess is the Brewers trade Weeks to Tampa to complete the season there leaving Gennett/Zobrist for 2b. Zobrist to fill in at SS/RF/ and even 1b. The man has more Walks this season than Strikeouts. Would be a great #2 hitter for our lineup.

 

This is just my idea of how to solve the problems this team has. Yes I haven't addressed 1b but I think Hunter Morris will force his way on the team come June.(.294/.337/.479/.816 line currently) Reynolds becomes the 1b/3b as needed Platoon role when it happens.

[HiAndTight]

I agree, but if we went with the proposed trade, we would be returning our starting five from this year, along with Pederson in the OF and no Nelson in the minors. That trade was "sold" as "This could be a legit 2 year run at World Series competitiveness." In that light, Thornburg would almost certainly be used as a late inning reliever. So, after two full seasons in late inning relief, when we lose Gallardo, Lohse and Estrada to free agency after this 2-year run, Thornburg could already be considered the closer. At the very least, he would be two years removed from having been a starter.

 

I don't think this is the best idea, but it is likely how it would play out if we traded our best prospect right now in order to go for it over the two-year window (this year and next) in which we have the current starting rotation.

 

No, I don't think it's a good idea to trade a prospect like Nelson right now either. We've been desperate to develop good young starting pitching. Now we have it and we want to trade one of them? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

And I keep hearing people who are jumping to the conclusion that Thornburg has pitched so well the Brewers are going to keep him in the pen, so I just assumed that's what you were saying. Yes, if they made a "all in," type trade to go for it for the next two years to win a WS, then chances are stronger he would be in the pen.

 

But the last thing I want is for them to make any "all in," type move right now. This team is a nice team that MIGHT get guys healthy, have most things go right and make the playoffs. It's just as possible that they suffer injuries to a couple older players and finish with around 82-85 wins. I'd rather stay the course as I don't believe this trade makes us that much better in 2014, but makes us MUCH worst in 2015, '16, '17. I hope we add someone...Martin Prado is the guy I keep going to. But certainly not for a young prospect. And if you believe Khris Davis is going to become an all star type player, why on Earth would we trade him away along with Jimmy Nelson for what amounts to a decent short term upgrade, but not a substantial one, but hurts us significantly long term? So I agree with you on all counts.

 

That's why if I'm the Brewers I trade away one of the guys from the current MLB roster and not Nelson. The Dodgers would very likely prefer "proven" to add to their staff right now, and the Brewers would be foolish to trade away a good MLB-ready guy who they control for six more years in order to hold onto Gallardo, Lohse and Estrada for a two-year window.

 

Gallardo. Trade Gallardo. 1000 times, trade Gallardo before Nelson. He's been a good enough pitcher he still has value. He's pitched well enough this year his value has bounced back(if it was down). He's controlled through next year at a reasonable price, and we have in house options who are very good to replace him. Estrada(now sporting a 5.42 FIP) is not going to interest the Dodgers. I really like Lohse and is one of the rare players I think actually had a real impact on younger pitchers. Garza likely wouldn't interest them, and Peralta shouldn't be considered nor should Nelson.

 

Brewcrewedue

 

 

Monty-

When it comes to pitching I feel that only Lohse or Peralta would be wanted by the Dodgers for Pederson(+some other prospect) I can't fathom why Milwaukee would trade away their top two Starters in a year they see themselves as Playoff Contenders. So to me LA would target Nelson for Pederson because that is just how the talks work out. LA doesn't want Estrada/Garza/Gallardo and the Brewers won't part with Lohse/Peralta.

 

Brewcrew, and why wouldn't they want an established pitcher who's 28 years old like Gallardo? Especially pitching in the NL West with Petco and his home games in LA? Gallardo is almost 7 years younger, and even last year when he struggled his WAR was almost identical to Lohse.

 

I do see Davis as having that potential .850+OPS ability. It just comes at the cost of being liable in the OF. That long term for Davis he's better playing a mix of DH/LF and not just LF. That is why I consider him expendable because his bat won't play up his defense overall.

 

Davis isn't a liability in LF any more than Braun was. He doesn't have a very strong throwing arm. That comes in to play very rarely. His range is fine. He doesn't have a very strong arm. If you believe he's going to consistently put up an OPS north of .850, then you believe he's going to be one of the best LF'ers in the NL and you're giving up 5+ years from him.

 

And you're then going to turn around and trade a young starting pitcher for a prospect that we're HOPING can put up those type of numbers. I don't know what to expect of Davis yet, but if you're convinced that he's going to be that good of a player, in 2 years we're very likely going to be looking back at that trade and kicking ourselves real hard.

[brewcrewdue80]

Woooo. Davis huge game today 4-4 and a Walk. OPS now up to .734 He's up to 6walks on the season and half of them are in the last 7games. He's on a stretch of 4 straight games with an XBH 2HRs, 4 doubles while picking up 2 walks.

As to trading him and Nelson H&T. I'm worried in Davis' development this season(though this stretch is making it look much brighter) the worry just in terms of him batting .230-.250 with an OB under .300. Going back prior to May 19th's game his line was at: .215/.244/.376/.620 with just 32hits/ 10 doubles/1triple/ and 4HRs. I appreciate a batter more who can put the ball in play for doubles/triples if he's supposed to be a Power hitter. But Davis at that point wasn't exactly accumulating any strong amount of XBHs. I believe he will turn out as a fine OPS hitter, it just comes with not much more added beyond the hitting aspect. For what's a super aggressive base-running team Davis hasn't even attempted to steal a base, he really looks slow running. The walks weren't there that I see coming down the road. The idea is Davis was a piece that will hold this team back this year and going after Zobrist meanwhile is a piece that doesn't hold the team back. Then flipping Nelson for Pederson gives the team more offensive insurance while getting a player who offers more defensively as well as on the basepaths. (Whoa he has 15HRs/13SBs! already! in 48games at age 22) So I mean come on, Joc is the real deal a .300 hitter with .375OB potential.

This team is pitching really well and offensively it just lacks depth. The bottom of the order is all hit/miss. Zobrist/Pederson would make for tough outs that provide a little bit of everything. Nelson can be something good, but if Pederson is a 30/30 guy? That's AllStar yearly with those numbers. How many here think Nelson will make even 1 AllStar game?

 

We wind up getting the Best player in the deals for 6+years(since he's going to be team controlled Now through 2020 season. I feel like because Nelson is coming up through our system and appears to be a nice 5-6year team controlled it's leading to the idea we can't trade him away. Blinding one from trading him away for a better player who could be a 7-10 year guy. Did I mention Pederson is a Lefty? I feel it's a No Brainer to take a Pederson for Nelson trade if possible. Nelson is just a #3 with #2 ability if he's locating, remember that. Pederson is a 5 tool player. For an OF this is what you want to add to your team. And my stance still remains that our pitching depth w/o Nelson is capable to compete beyond the next two seasons because Jungmann will be ready, Pena or Hellweg will fill a back end spot with Thornburg/Smith filling in another. And who knows what we get with our draft this year? Aaron Nola could fall in to our selection and he's predicted to be the fastest to make a ML team.

 

Now, this entire trade scenario playing out is based on the Brewers trading Davis for Zobrist(creating a hole in the OF minus Zobrist making occasional starts) And that hole is filled long term by acquiring Pederson. You don't trade Nelson away for Pederson if you keep Davis.

[Oxy]

Is David Price going to be available? If we are thinking that we might want to actually compete IN the postseason rather than just compete to GET to the post-season, he would be the perfect guy to pick up for the next 1.5 years in a Greinke like move.

[nate82]

Is David Price going to be available? If we are thinking that we might want to actually compete IN the postseason rather than just compete to GET to the post-season, he would be the perfect guy to pick up for the next 1.5 years in a Greinke like move.

 

I don't believe the Brewers have the pieces to trade for Price. I also don't believe there are many teams out there that do have the pieces that it would take for a Price trade. This really sucks for Tampa as the teams that have the talent to trade for Price really are not in it right now. I don't see the Rangers getting involved and I am not sure the Mariners will either.

 

That leaves the Rays with the Jays, Marlins, Brewers, Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, and the Tigers as possible suitors. Right now would be a good time to trade Price as there are more teams in contention but I just don't see any team giving up the pieces needed to get Price. The Yankees farm system is not all that great and they don't really have that much impact talent in their farm system. The Red Sox have some nice pieces but will they give them up for Price? I don't think they will. The Cardinals have pieces but most of them already have MLB service time which is not something you want to trade for if you are Tampa. The Brewers have most of their talent in A ball or lower and the only piece that is above A ball is Nelson and I don't see the Brewers trading Nelson + to the Rays for Price. The Marlins are probably the best option but I don't see them giving up the talent to get Price. I am not sure the Jays and the Tigers have what it would take to get Price.

 

I just don't see the Rays as being a good trading partner for the Brewers. None of their players that they have available are anyone that I would target in a trade.

[HiAndTight]

Is David Price going to be available? If we are thinking that we might want to actually compete IN the postseason rather than just compete to GET to the post-season, he would be the perfect guy to pick up for the next 1.5 years in a Greinke like move.

 

 

The Brewers have finally developed a pretty good group of young pitchers and are on the cusp of having a respectable farm system again...particularly if our young players continue to develop as they have so far this year. I understand where you're coming from as it's going to be very difficult to beat a team with pitchers like Kershaw and Greinke in the first two games, but I'd rather go with Lohse, Garza, Peralta and Gallardo than give up a big package for a rental, even one as good as Price.

[Oxy]

Is David Price going to be available? If we are thinking that we might want to actually compete IN the postseason rather than just compete to GET to the post-season, he would be the perfect guy to pick up for the next 1.5 years in a Greinke like move.

 

 

The Brewers have finally developed a pretty good group of young pitchers and are on the cusp of having a respectable farm system again...particularly if our young players continue to develop as they have so far this year. I understand where you're coming from as it's going to be very difficult to beat a team with pitchers like Kershaw and Greinke in the first two games, but I'd rather go with Lohse, Garza, Peralta and Gallardo than give up a big package for a rental, even one as good as Price.

 

What if we brought up Nelson, then gave the Rays the rights to everybody else on the Nashville Sounds roster? Obviously, the Huntsville roster has outclassed AA, so they are all ready for a call-up. Bump everybody else up a notch and give the ARZ rookie league staff a year off. I think Josh Prince is still around in AA, so he can take the emergency spot that Elian Herrera and Irving Falu have played for us this year (he's done it before, he can do it again!)

[monty57]

What if we brought up Nelson, then gave the Rays the rights to everybody else on the Nashville Sounds roster? Obviously, the Huntsville roster has outclassed AA, so they are all ready for a call-up. Bump everybody else up a notch and give the ARZ rookie league staff a year off. I think Josh Prince is still around in AA, so he can take the emergency spot that Elian Herrera and Irving Falu have played for us this year (he's done it before, he can do it again!)

 

Outside of Nelson, I'd give Tampa the rest of the Nashville roster for Price. We'd essentially be trading Jungmann, Morris, Gindl and Pena for Price, which they wouldn't do.