Mike Moustakas

[Mudville9]

I know a few of you have brought up this idea, but with Moustakas being sent down and A-Ram on the DL I would say that now would be a good as time as any. We are a little desparate so KC may try and squeeze more out of us, but his return is probably as low as it will get. Granted he is struggling this year (understatement) but he is only 25 and should be a lot better than he is.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/05/central-notes-cardinals-chapman-moustakas.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

[logan82]

No, just no. We had Yuni last year.

 

Edit: Unless you expect a Carlos Gomez career arc for him.

[Roderick]

I know a few of you have brought up this idea, but with Moustakas being sent down and A-Ram on the DL I would say that now would be a good as time as any. We are a little desparate so KC may try and squeeze more out of us, but his return is probably as low as it will get. Granted he is struggling this year (understatement) but he is only 25 and should be a lot better than he is.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/05/central-notes-cardinals-chapman-moustakas.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

 

He is young, but his best season was still only a .708 OPS. As he is arby eligible next year, if you did trade for him with a Pena then you would still be looking to get a better guy to replace him sooner than later. I think T.Green can probably give us what he can this year for only the price of a 40 man roster spot.

[SRB]

The Royals are not going to trade Moustakas for cheap. They held on to Alex Gordon for years and turned him back into an All-Star player.

 

The cost to the Brewers would be prohibitive (if the Brewers even have sufficient non-MLB pieces to get the job done in the first place).

[jerichoholicninja]

It's amazing how bad he's been but it's more amazing how blah his minor league numbers were for a guy who was a top prospect.

[Roderick]

The Royals are not going to trade Moustakas for cheap. They held on to Alex Gordon for years and turned him back into an All-Star player.

 

The cost to the Brewers would be prohibitive (if the Brewers even have sufficient non-MLB pieces to get the job done in the first place).

 

I agree the Royals have more invested in him and would want to run out the string rather than trade away cheap. But when you just look at his numbers, I don't see anything that special and since he is going to start earning some real money next year, I definitely wouldn't trade away any of our top prospects to get him.

[Warning Track Power]

Honestly, I have no idea what the Royals would want in return. If this were November 2013 or November 2014, I think the perfect piece for us and them would be Marco Estrada. However, being that its May 2014, I don't know if the teams match up.

 

I would love to get his bat and defense into our lineup as I think he might be the perfect change of scenery guy, but as others have mentioned, I doubt a deal of Ariel Pena would get the deal done. I think it would have to be a Jimmy Nelson type or possibly a Tyrone Taylor, whom I would not be real interested in dealing. I would maybe be interested in moving Tom Gorzelanny or Jim Henderson to them, given their bullpen issues, but Gorzelanny or Henderson for Moustakas is probably not enough. One of the two + Pena for Moustakas?

 

It's amazing how bad he's been but it's more amazing how blah his minor league numbers were for a guy who was a top prospect.

 

Come on man...http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mousta001mik

 

2008 in A: .272/.337/.468 22 HR, 71 RBI in in 496 ABs

2009 in A+: .250/.297/.421 16 HR, 86 RBI in 492 ABs

2010 in AA/AAA: .322/.369/.630 36 HR, 124 RBI in 484 ABs

2011 in AAA: .287/.347/.498 10 HR, 44 RBI in 223 ABs

 

Outside of 2009, he put up solid MiLB numbers.

[HiAndTight]

No, just no. We had Yuni last year.

 

Edit: Unless you expect a Carlos Gomez career arc for him.

 

 

I don't think you expect anyone to have a Carlos Gomez career arc, but when you're dealing with talented players who have yet to pan out, obviously that'd be why you'd trade for them.

 

And I don't see what having Yuni has to do with Moustakas.

 

 

I also don't believe the Royals would seriously ask for Jimmy Nelson in return. Ideally you'd exchange another talented player who hasn't lived up to expectations(Gordon Beckham would be the type of player I'm thinking of).

 

The Royals however have Danny Valencia(another pretty highly regarded prospect) and are platooning him with Moustakas right now. Why would they demand a huge return for him? This strikes me more as a Rickie Weeks(with us taking on most of his contract) for MM type deal as they're also struggling at 2nd base. Or Marco Estrada. They're trying to win now, and we're trying to get by while just hoping that we get a guy who can realize his potential.

[Roderick]

Why is everyone throwing Estrada's name out there? Maybe I am in the minority, but that seems like a big overpay by the Brewers. I don't think much of MM and I think a lot of Estrada. If you meant to package Estrada with Weeks and the Royals were willing to pay $4-$5M more of Week's contract, then I suppose I would deal. But I don't see any way we deal starting pitching away while in contention, unless ARam were out for the year.

[jerichoholicninja]

Why is everyone throwing Estrada's name out there? Maybe I am in the minority, but that seems like a big overpay by the Brewers. I don't think much of MM and I think a lot of Estrada. If you meant to package Estrada with Weeks and the Royals were willing to pay $4-$5M more of Week's contract, then I suppose I would deal. But I don't see any way we deal starting pitching away while in contention, unless ARam were out for the year.

 

Estrada gets no respect here for some reason. He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

[TheCrew07]

Why is everyone throwing Estrada's name out there? Maybe I am in the minority, but that seems like a big overpay by the Brewers. I don't think much of MM and I think a lot of Estrada. If you meant to package Estrada with Weeks and the Royals were willing to pay $4-$5M more of Week's contract, then I suppose I would deal. But I don't see any way we deal starting pitching away while in contention, unless ARam were out for the year.

 

Estrada gets no respect here for some reason. He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

 

That's not even close to what's been said.

[Roderick]

Why is everyone throwing Estrada's name out there? Maybe I am in the minority, but that seems like a big overpay by the Brewers. I don't think much of MM and I think a lot of Estrada. If you meant to package Estrada with Weeks and the Royals were willing to pay $4-$5M more of Week's contract, then I suppose I would deal. But I don't see any way we deal starting pitching away while in contention, unless ARam were out for the year.

 

Estrada gets no respect here for some reason. He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

 

That's not even close to what's been said.

 

Did you even read the two posts exactly before my post? Both threw Estrada's name in there.

[TheCrew07]

Did you even read the two posts exactly before my post? Both threw Estrada's name in there.

 

1 of them, the other has been on ignore for years.

 

Furthermore I was referring to He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

 

Which might be what 1 or 2 posters have said, but is not the consensus opinion. I've elaborated on this numerous times earlier in the thread. His age, stuff, small window of team control remaining, and lack of innings pitched makes him expendable... not because of what he is, but because of what he isn't.

 

I don't mind posting a detailed explanation once or even twice, but I'm not wasting time typing up those long posts essentially explaining the same opinion for a 3rd time only to have it continually misrepresented by those who won't take the time to read such a post and skim it at best.

 

Estrada is someone you walk away from, not someone you build around, and the idea should never be to build around 30 somethings.

 

We also have to find a way to get Thornburg and Nelson experience in the rotation before we absolutely have to rely on them in 2016. There's a plethora of reasons to move on from Estrada beyond "2 freak hamstring" injuries, multiple posters have covered the reasons why but the same throw away lines about a lack of respect keep coming back around. That actually suggests that those who post such things are aren't actually reading and taking the time to understand the counter argument, not the other way around.

[Roderick]

Did you even read the two posts exactly before my post? Both threw Estrada's name in there.

 

1 of them, the other has been on ignore for years.

 

Furthermore I was referring to He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

 

Which might be what 1 or 2 posters have said, but is not the consensus opinion. I've elaborated on this numerous times earlier in the thread. His age, stuff, small window of team control remaining, and lack of innings pitched makes him expendable... not because of what he is, but because of what he isn't.

 

I don't mind posting a detailed explanation once or even twice, but I'm not wasting time typing up those long posts essentially explaining the same opinion for a 3rd time only to have it continually misrepresented by those who won't take the time to read such a post and skim it at best.

 

Estrada is someone you walk away from, not someone you build around, and the idea should never be to build around 30 somethings.

 

We also have to find a way to get Thornburg and Nelson experience in the rotation before we absolutely have to rely on them in 2016. There's a plethora of reasons to move on from Estrada beyond "2 freak hamstring" injuries, multiple posters have covered the reasons why but the same throw away lines about a lack of respect keep coming back around. That actually suggests that those who post such things are aren't actually reading and taking the time to understand the counter argument, not the other way around.

 

Do you even read before you write? First of all, you did not post anything about Estrada in this thread like you stated. Secondly, we were specifically talking about the potential trade of Estrada for Moustakas - which evidently you mixed up with some other thread, but still felt the need to admonish us for not reading your other posts in other threads on your anti-Estrada rantings.

[HiAndTight]

Why is everyone throwing Estrada's name out there? Maybe I am in the minority, but that seems like a big overpay by the Brewers. I don't think much of MM and I think a lot of Estrada. If you meant to package Estrada with Weeks and the Royals were willing to pay $4-$5M more of Week's contract, then I suppose I would deal. But I don't see any way we deal starting pitching away while in contention, unless ARam were out for the year.

 

Estrada gets no respect here for some reason. He's a very solid and cheap pitcher but two freak hamstring injuries have convinced everyone he's an injury prone fluke.

 

 

If you'd like to know why I don't think as highly of Estrada as you do, then by all means ask. No need to fabricate an argument to try and make a point.

 

-Estrada is 30 years old.

-Estrada's fastball has lost a MPH the last 3 years to the point he now sits at 88 MPH.

-He's never once pitched more than 138 innings in his career.

-He also gives up a lot of HR's.

 

He is a very solid and very cheap starting pitcher. And I respect him at about that level. What I don't do is take his peripherals over smaller portions of a season and then try to extrapolate them and compare them with a pitcher who consistently pitches ~200 innings and makes 30+ starts a season.

 

 

But perhaps you could explain to me why you have so much respect for a pitcher who through the age of 31 has a cumulative WAR 3.1?

 

 

Marco Estrada is a nice pitcher. If however you can use him and get back a talented young player while also giving your own talented young pitchers who have proven they're ready to pitch in the big leagues a opportunity, it seems to me at least, like a logical move.

[BraunyBoy08]

Yuni B!! http://www.buffaloes.co.jp/team/player/detail/1.html

[Warning Track Power]

Possible to get Moustakas on the cheap now that he has been optioned to MiLB?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/royals-send-mike-moustakas-to-triple-a-recall-jimmy-paredes?ymd=20140522&content_id=76367920&vkey=news_mlb