Rickie Weeks 2014

[Baldkin]

After watching this forum go bonkers over the thought of moving Braun to RF (or 1B) during the off season, it's amazing that now people want a guy who's played 2B for 10 years to play 4 different positions.

[HiAndTight]

Well of course contracts in baseball are tired to performance. Obviously the contract itself is tied to performances, but there are bonuses for winning gold gloves, MVP's, playoff MVP awards, among other things. So that's not true unless this is a recent development(as in the last 2-3 years). Adam Dunn get a bonus if he wins a Gold Glove.

 

But beyond that, beyond the guaranteed part of the contract, of course option years are going to be based on performance. Otherwise you'd see grievances filed every year when a team turns down an option year for a player who's healthy.

 

Award bonuses are in contracts because it is a workaround for the prohibition on performance-based incentives. The only statistics they are allowed to incorporate are appearance-based, like PA/IP, and those are clearly meant as a proxy for health. I can see how you could argue that a secondary purpose of PA requirements is to incorporate a performance proxy for players that completely fall off a cliff, but my original point is that when Weeks signed his contract nobody had that in mind. There was no other Brewers 2B on the horizon and Weeks looked like he was a perennial All-Star. The intent of everybody involved when the contract was signed was that Weeks would get the option if he was healthy.

 

There's nothing wrong with declining an option, that's part of the game. But the issue here is that Weeks was guaranteed $11M if he hit 600 PA this season. They sat him just long enough to ensure that he can't meet that. And indeed there is virtually no way he can hit that anymore even if he starts every remaining game. So, coincidentally, he is getting more playing time now.

 

If the 2013 performances of Weeks and Scooter had been closer, then he might have a plausible grievance for the MLBPA to file on his behalf. I'm not saying he does - the Brewers had legitimate reasons to justify sitting him. But my point remains that from his perspective he is getting screwed.

 

(Ok, my last post on the issue, sorry for cluttering the thread!)

 

I'm just not sure how you speak to the "intent," of the option at the time it was signed, OR the fact that nobody had the thought in mind that Weeks might perform poorly enough that THAT may in fact be the reason for him to not reach 600 PA's. Weeks was very good the year prior to signing his contract, but his career numbers prior to that year where;

.247/.351/.415. Those are average numbers for a 2nd basemen.

 

You're argument then combines the fact that nobody thought Weeks may fall off a cliff with the fact that there was nobody on the horizon. I would argue that when you're talking about a 4 year deal you have no idea who may or may not be "on the horizon," but lets just look at Gennett's numbers the year prior to Weeks signing. .309/.354/.463 and a OPS of .817. That was for a guy who was a projected early round pick who we gave early round money to for a signing bonus.

 

 

So I absolutely believe the vesting option was put in place to protect the Brewers from Weeks seeing a sharp decline as much as it was for his health issues. Both were a serious concern for the 5th year of a large deal for a guy who'd only had one big year up until that point. He had a combined WAR of 7.4 up until that point.

 

And to me there is no coincidence at to when the Brewers started giving Weeks more playing time. It was when he started to earn it again, plain and simple. He was absolutely terrible and Gennett was very good. It would have been far more questionable to start the season giving Weeks the at bats simply because he was a veteran over Gennett.

 

 

And I don't think there is any basis whatsoever, regardless of how each would have performed last year to file any type of grievance whatsoever. I think you're reaching regarding the intent and making assumptions regarding what everyone thought at the time of the Weeks extension.

[HiAndTight]

OK so he won't play OF, but what about 1B especially with Ramirez out? Ernie Banks was a HOF caliber shortstop, and moved to 1B for weak hitting Don Kessinger and extended his career. Roenicke should ask Ernie to have a sit down with Weeks this weekend.

 

Have you ever watched Weeks field 1st on a bunt? He's a disaster. If the Ramirez injury forced a move for Weeks it should be to 3rd.

 

 

You think that might have something to do with the fact that he's using a tiny, tiny little glove and is sprinting over from his position at 2nd base to try and get to 1st in time to cover?

 

Very few 2nd basemen look "good," covering 1st base.

After watching this forum go bonkers over the thought of moving Braun to RF (or 1B) during the off season, it's amazing that now people want a guy who's played 2B for 10 years to play 4 different positions.

 

I must have missed the majority of this conversation, but I do recall some posts suggesting that because of Braun's failure at 3rd they shouldn't try him at 1st(Which I wholly disagree with as I don't think the two positions are really comparable at all).

 

But the difference is that Braun, if moved to 1st, would play there 162 games if healthy. Weeks would merely play in LF on occasion and is not the face of your franchise.

[Gobias Industries]

After watching this forum go bonkers over the thought of moving Braun to RF (or 1B) during the off season, it's amazing that now people want a guy who's played 2B for 10 years to play 4 different positions.

Unbelievable. It seems that a good portion of this forum thinks this is like their beer league softball team asking them to switch positions.

 

The time and place to do this was Spring Training. Somehow DM and RR had very little foresight on something most casual Brewer fans saw coming.

 

FWIW about 5 years ago before Weeks really hit his prime I advocated he try becoming a utility player ala Mark DeRosa during his time with CHC because he never seemed like he was gonna hit enough to make up for his D. Now that doesn't seem like a bad idea for him going forward.

[SoupTown]

Does 'bonkers' mean 'everybody happy'. Braun to right field was about the most consensus I have ever seen on this board. Now that Rickie has found our the secret of infield singles (he has a lot, hey!), I would love him to start many more games at 2nd (or even left field) to get his PAs up. Once he is back to just over .300, then you dangle him.

 

Why he would not consider doing what is best for the team? Who knows.

 

Weeks and 4 positions. It would be great if he could play one.

[SRB]

Mentioned this in the gamethread for today, but if Rickie refuses to play LF while spotting the best offensive line on the team right now, why don't they just try Gennett in LF? He could play good defense there and Scooter/Khris both have pretty dramatic (and complementary) platoon splits this season.

[HiAndTight]

Mentioned this in the gamethread for today, but if Rickie refuses to play LF while spotting the best offensive line on the team right now, why don't they just try Gennett in LF? He could play good defense there and Scooter/Khris both have pretty dramatic (and complementary) platoon splits this season.

 

 

I would think the only reason they wouldn't consider this is because they believe Gennett is the 2nd basemen of the future and they're more concerned with his future and confidence.

 

Otherwise it makes as much sense as anything.

[SoupTown]

I honestly think you gotta just play Rickie now every day. We are in the position now where we are so desperate for some batting, the fall back on D we should not worry about.

 

Rickie is playing like a guy with a point to prove and a chip on his shoulder. Surely we must use that anger. He will either carry us to the playoffs on his bat or he will funk out of his hot spell and go into the Siberian Slump. Scooter can rest and shag fly balls in left field until then.

 

And looking at Rickie's body shape today, I think he refused the 30 meter sprints needed in left field. Scooter is a gnat and will do fine out there.

 

I like it. Scooter goes into a LF platoon.

[jerichoholicninja]

I like it. Scooter goes into a LF platoon.

 

Offensively, Scooter would be a putrid corner OF. His sub .700 OPS this year is not even passable for 2B.

[monty57]

That's really not true, because contracts in MLB are not supposed to be tied to performance whatsoever.

 

What?

 

I think you're trying to say incentives can't be performance based, because contracts are only based on performance. Otherwise, why do the good players get paid more than the bad ones? Also, just because you're paid more doesn't mean you are entitled to play if the alternative is better. High priced players get benched and cut. It's all (or mostly all) about production.

[FVBrewerFan]

I honestly think you gotta just play Rickie now every day. We are in the position now where we are so desperate for some batting, the fall back on D we should not worry about.

 

Scooter plays vs RHP. Bianchi plays 3B while Ramirez is out. So it is written in RR manager's manual. I was starting to come around on RR, but how can he not see Weeks has been red hot and needs to stay in the line-up? Especially since scoring a run these days is a major event.

 

Weeks should have started every game in the Cubs series, and for that matter Maldy should have been playing 1B, with Reynolds at 3B. Who knows if the results would have been any different, but at least try to field a line-up with some punch.

[reillymcshane]

That's really not true, because contracts in MLB are not supposed to be tied to performance whatsoever.

 

What?

 

I think you're trying to say incentives can't be performance based, because contracts are only based on performance. Otherwise, why do the good players get paid more than the bad ones? Also, just because you're paid more doesn't mean you are entitled to play if the alternative is better. High priced players get benched and cut. It's all (or mostly all) about production.

I think it's true that contracts can't be based upon performance. They can be based on playing time (games played, starts, at bats, etc.). And they can be based on awards (all star appearance, silver slugger, gold glove, etc.). But I don't think you can put a cash incentive on things like the number of HRs a player hits or how many wins a pitcher has.

[monty57]

That's really not true, because contracts in MLB are not supposed to be tied to performance whatsoever.

 

What?

 

I think you're trying to say incentives can't be performance based, because contracts are only based on performance. Otherwise, why do the good players get paid more than the bad ones? Also, just because you're paid more doesn't mean you are entitled to play if the alternative is better. High priced players get benched and cut. It's all (or mostly all) about production.

I think it's true that contracts can't be based upon performance. They can be based on playing time (games played, starts, at bats, etc.). And they can be based on awards (all star appearance, silver slugger, gold glove, etc.). But I don't think you can put a cash incentive on things like the number of HRs a player hits or how many wins a pitcher has.

 

Yeah, I think I misread what he meant by "tied to," as he was implying the incentive section.

 

When you say "I will pay you $10MM per year for four years," it is purely based on the production you assume you will receive over those four years. And the only obligation the team is tying itself to is that they will pay the $40MM over the defined time frame. They are not obliged to give the person playing time, or even to keep them on the 25 man roster.

[HiAndTight]

I like it. Scooter goes into a LF platoon.

 

Offensively, Scooter would be a putrid corner OF. His sub .700 OPS this year is not even passable for 2B.

 

 

What difference would it make? The argument was we put Weeks in LF and play Gennett at 2nd base. Well Weeks didn't want to. So then the question was asked why not throw Gennett out there in LF. Who cares that his production wouldn't be commensurate with the average corner OF'er? If the goal is to have Weeks and Gennett in the lineup, it doesn't really matter that Weeks OPS is closer to the average LF'er whereas Gennett's isn't. They're both in the lineup in that circumstance.

 

And of course he'd be a platoon guy, so his .751 OPS vs right handers would be a big upgrade vs the .583 OPS that Davis is putting up right now vs righties.

[RobDeer 45]

Scooter is the future 2b. Weeks is on his way out. You don't want to mess with Scooter right now, that would not be smart. I would love to see Weeks just suck it up and try something, but I don't believe it will be pretty. We need a GM to overreact and trade for Weeks so we can be done with this!

[bill hAll Star]

If Scooter is the future at 2B, I'm not too excited about the team's future there. This is Scooter. Sub .700 platooning at one position, that being a position that you don't really want to platoon.

[dlk9s]

Mentioned this in the gamethread for today, but if Rickie refuses to play LF while spotting the best offensive line on the team right now, why don't they just try Gennett in LF? He could play good defense there and Scooter/Khris both have pretty dramatic (and complementary) platoon splits this season.

Why not just play everyone anywhere? It's all just catching and throwing!

 

If Jose Oquendo could do it, anyone can!

[HiAndTight]

If Scooter is the future at 2B, I'm not too excited about the team's future there. This is Scooter. Sub .700 platooning at one position, that being a position that you don't really want to platoon.

 

 

If we're going to use extremely small sample sizes to judge what a player is, why not use last year when he posted an .834 OPS while he wasn't platooning? Or who has a .946 OPS in more PA's last year vs RHP'ers than he has total this year.

 

And for the record, while OPS is obviously the best way to judge a players overall ability, I think it's starting to get a LITTLE bit overrated. If Gennett becomes a .300 hitter with a .340 OBP, but slugs just .400, that's just fine for a 2nd basemen. Brandon Phillips, one of the best 2nd basemen during the course of his career has a .748 OPS for his career.

[SRB]

Mentioned this in the gamethread for today, but if Rickie refuses to play LF while spotting the best offensive line on the team right now, why don't they just try Gennett in LF? He could play good defense there and Scooter/Khris both have pretty dramatic (and complementary) platoon splits this season.

Why not just play everyone anywhere? It's all just catching and throwing!

 

If Jose Oquendo could do it, anyone can!

 

Basically any MLB-caliber 2B should be able to manage LF. I'm not sure what your point is...

 

As for Scooter's offense, he's not an ideal corner-OF, but the problem is Weeks is hitting like crazy right now, and our everyday LF has a .244 OBP. It simply makes no sense to have one of Weeks/Scooter on the bench when it seems that Davis needs a platoon partner for the time being.

 

Davis has a .210 OBP against RHP right now!!!

[monty57]

Now that Schafer and Braun are back and Gomez has served his suspension, this seems less important. I would think that Schafer and/or Gindl would be a better platoon partner for Davis than Gennett. Given regular PAs, I think they're at least as good of hitters as Gennett, and they are actually outfielders.

 

This doesn't solve the problem of having a poor farm system, nor does it solve the problem of having two guys who only play 2B on the 25-man roster, but at least it could keep the Brewers from throwing players all over the field in positions they have never played. I don't like that Weeks wouldn't do what the team asked of him, but it probably kept him and the team from looking foolish on live TV.

[bill hAll Star]

If Scooter is the future at 2B, I'm not too excited about the team's future there. This is Scooter. Sub .700 platooning at one position, that being a position that you don't really want to platoon.

 

 

If we're going to use extremely small sample sizes to judge what a player is, why not use last year when he posted an .834 OPS while he wasn't platooning? Or who has a .946 OPS in more PA's last year vs RHP'ers than he has total this year.

 

And for the record, while OPS is obviously the best way to judge a players overall ability, I think it's starting to get a LITTLE bit overrated. If Gennett becomes a .300 hitter with a .340 OBP, but slugs just .400, that's just fine for a 2nd basemen. Brandon Phillips, one of the best 2nd basemen during the course of his career has a .748 OPS for his career.

 

We have a lot of minor league data to go off of. He projected to a .700 guy in a platoon as the LH batter. Of course, he could improve and develop a bit, but the point is that this year's .680 is closer to the truth than .900 or whatever he hit last year.

[logan82]

So at this point it looks like it was best for the Brewers to not play Weeks in LF and take PA away from Davis. Hopefully that continues to be true.

[monty57]

So at this point it looks like it was best for the Brewers to not play Weeks in LF and take PA away from Davis. Hopefully that continues to be true.

 

 

Wait... you mean that players will have ups and downs throughout the season and we shouldn't go butt nutty when a player is playing above or below his true talent level for a short period of time?

 

I'm not sure exactly what we have in Davis, but he's probably a high-.700's-to-low-.800's OPS guy. Not a star, but a decent MLB LF, especially when he's cheap. I thought he might need some PAs in AAA to straighten things out, but he is clearly better than he was playing. Good to see he's back on track.

 

As to Weeks, I have no idea where his "true talent level" is at this point in his career. I don't like that he wouldn't do what the team asked of him, as that's just part of being a "team player." That said, I've never liked having two 2B-only guys on the team, so it may make sense to let him play everyday (assuming he won't be able to hit the automatic vesting option) and send Gennett down to AAA just to get a more versatile/helpful player on the roster for a while. It's business, and that could let the Brewers get the most out of Weeks (now) and Gennett (in the future).

[Thurston Fluff]

Weeks hasn't played this well in years. We do not have many good offensive bench players. We do not need any more light hitting bench players who play multiple positions. Given all that why not leave Weeks remain in the role he is in? It fills a need that would not be filled with any other player we have in house.

[JohnBriggs12]

Weeks hasn't played this well in years. We do not have many good offensive bench players. We do not need any more light hitting bench players who play multiple positions. Given all that why not leave Weeks remain in the role he is in? It fills a need that would not be filled with any other player we have in house.

 

Weeks is 2 for 22 with 10 K's since he peaked at .365 on May 15. I wouldn't get too carried away by his 3 week hot spell earlier. He's probably still no better than a .230/.310/.400 high strike out hitter when all is said and done.