Rickie Weeks 2014

[fondybrewfan]

You might as well play him a little bit more in hopes that someone becomes desperate enough to want him. He gotten much better at the plate. I have no problems if you could get him 2 starts a week. Maybe even 3 depending on matchups.

 

And I agree that trying to teach someone OF during midseason probably isn't the wisest of plans. That being said this offseason Rickie would be best served to try to learn a new position or two because that would greatly improve his odds of staying in the league. At this point he might be a non roster invite next spring training.

[torts]

I'm in the camp that him in the outfield is not a good idea to try mid year. Maybe he pulls it off but that's not an easy transition. I'm still hoping we find someone to trade him too.

 

its not mid year, its 5 weeks into the season.

[monty57]

Gennett has had only 14 AB vs LHP, which is a very small sample size but has 103 AB (3 times as many as Weeks, fyi) vs RHP and is hitting .301 with a .339 OBP with many XBH and has 2 HR's . Weeks is hitting .217 with a .280 OBP with 0 RBI's vs LHP and is showing zero power by hitting all singles. If anybody has earned the right for a starter position it's Gennett by a mile, and there's a reason why he's getting it. To say Gennett can't hit LHP is premature, but saying Weeks has been terrible and should be off the roster isn't.

 

Weeks' OPS is .739, Gennett's is .719. To say either is predictive is wrong, but that's where they are at this point.

 

Also, don't look at AVG and OBP after only 128 AB's for Segura and Davis. Look at their RBI's and all of their XBH's. They have shown more production than Weeks has even though they are going through adjustment periods called slumps. The fact that they are showing gap power tells me there's still plenty to be expected out of them. To compare them all to make the point you were making by trying to beef up Weeks is ridiculous.

 

That's what SLG is all about. Davis' SLG is .379 - not very good, and Segura's is .339 - even worse. I don't think many posters on here only look at AVG and OBP, but I can say that most don't put a lot of credence in how many RBI's a player has, as that is in large part dependent on opportunity. In other words, a bad hitter who happens to be up with a lot of runners on base is likely to have more RBI than a good hitter who happens to be up with few runners on base.

 

Answer a question - Why did the Brewers approach Weeks about LF if the platoon was working or worth a further look at 2B?

 

Because Braun is out, Gomez is facing a suspension and Davis, Gindl and Schafer haven't been hitting well this season. Also, I don't see a time-frame referenced. At one point, we played Herrera and Reynolds in RF because we were beset with day-to-day injuries. It is possible he was asked to play OF during this time frame, or it could have just been a "would you consider playing OF if a similar situation occurred in the future?"

 

Whoever said they may be considering sending Davis to AAA could be on to something. He could probably use a "time out," and sending him to AAA for a bit could be all he needs to get on track. Sticking Weeks there once in a while could allow for this to happen.

 

I don't know why Weeks would turn down the opportunity, just that he did. I'm sure he had his reasons, but whatever they were, "putting the team first" doesn't appear to be his top priority. Players are asked to do things for the team, like sending the backup catcher out to pitch an inning, switching your best player from 3B to LF to RF, or moving a starting pitcher to the bullpen. Most players say "whatever the team needs" and make the switch. Weeks didn't.

[torts]

I was talking to a friend about this today, he thinks Weeks doesnt care about increasing his value by playing in LF, to which I agree with him on that, that specifically playing LF wont really do much for his value... but all the at bats he'll get would. what I dont want to see happen is RRR start playing Weeks every day at 2B over Scoots who has actually been making contact, and continue to let Davis/Gindl/Schafer man LF.

 

without knowing the actual conversation this really paints Weeks in a bad light as a stubborn veteran player whose more interested in sitting on the bench and not playing vs playing out of position

[logan82]

switching your best player from 3B to LF to RF

To be fair that particular player was even worse at 3B than Weeks is at 2B. He also had the whole offseason to prepare for a position change. Also the switch from LF to RF isn't that big of a deal compared to moving from 2B to LF. Especially midseason.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm surprised Weeks isn't willing to play LF, simply to get more at-bats. He'll need to actually get at-bats to increase his value for next season. At this point, I also think it would benefit the team to have both Weeks and Scooter in the lineup instead of the likes of Davis, Schafer, and Gindl. None of whom are hitting, or getting on base consistently, right now. I think Weeks could learn LF relatively quickly, given the fact that he played OF in college. Becoming passable in LF shouldn't be too hard for him.

[torts]

maybe he's just making sure his option year doesnt vest by declining

[monty57]

switching your best player from 3B to LF to RF

To be fair that particular player was even worse at 3B than Weeks is at 2B. He also had the whole offseason to prepare for a position change. Also the switch from LF to RF isn't that big of a deal compared to moving from 2B to LF. Especially midseason.

 

Oh I know, I was just saying that these moves happen fairly often, and it isn't common for players to refuse to do what the team asks. Sheffield was upset, and threw games away because of it. Soriano got upset but eventually settled in to LF. I'm sure there are others who refuse, but I doubt many who are bench players refusing to man a position that will give them more playing time.

 

Is it possible the Weeks wants the Brewers to cut him so that he'll be free to find a full-time gig at 2B?

[logan82]

I thought Soriano moved in the offseason as well. If they asked Weeks sometime early in Spring Training and he refused that's one thing. If they asked him a few weeks ago that's something else entirely. I don't think there is much from Weeks standpoint to be gained by playing LF right now unless he is a good defender out there. There is a lot to lose by not playing well in the outfield. If he fails he will be looked at as a 2B only who plays bad defense at 2B. At least if he doesn't play LF there is the possibility he could be at least average out there. We got a good close look at what happens to a guy who switches positions and doesn't play good defense in Francisco. Being unknown is better than being known to be bad.

[reillymcshane]

Is it possible the Weeks wants the Brewers to cut him so that he'll be free to find a full-time gig at 2B?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. If Rickie moves to LF, the team has an incentive to keep him. He wants to get someplace where he can play 2B full time for half the season (or more) - and reestablish his value as a 2B.

 

Also, the odds of him being any good in LF are not great. He may feel trying to play a position he has never played since college, without any practice, is a recipe for disaster - and thus only hurting him for next year.

 

I think he's gunning to get out of town and to a team that will play him full time. I think for him, it's the best thing for his career.

[RightFieldCoder]

Crazy since Weeks played OF in college. He's absolutely terrible at 2b.

Do you have a link talking about this? I remember stories about him playing the infield with Prince in a little league touring team. I think he's played 2B his entire life.

 

He is also no longer terrible at 2B. That may be part of why he doesn't want to move. He's worked really hard for many years to become adequate defensively. Maybe he doesn't want to put in more hard work to move.

[HiAndTight]

The purpose of a guaranteed contract in sports is to ensure pay regardless of performance. The reason there are PA-based options is that it is the best objective proxy for health. I never said that the Brewers violated the contract, they didn't. But that doesn't mean Rickie isn't getting screwed. Same as K-Rod a few weeks back when he suddenly became the set-up man.

 

 

Yes, that is the purpose of a guaranteed contract. And the Brewers have paid Rickie regardless of his performance. However you're the one making the assumptions that a PA based option is put in place primarily for health concerns. It seems just as logical that it's put in place to address performance issues.

 

And if Rickie Weeks was performing at a high level, the Brewers would gladly pay him 11 million dollars a year. However he hasn't for the past 2 years.

 

Rickie isn't getting screwed out of anything. He signed a contract that gave the Brewers options. If he was hurt, the vesting option wouldn't be picked up. If his performance declined significantly, he wouldn't play enough for his option to vest.

 

I don't know how this can be painted as the Brewers wronging Rickie.

[Bombers]

Crazy since Weeks played OF in college. He's absolutely terrible at 2b.

Do you have a link talking about this? I remember stories about him playing the infield with Prince in a little league touring team. I think he's played 2B his entire life.

 

He is also no longer terrible at 2B. That may be part of why he doesn't want to move. He's worked really hard for many years to become adequate defensively. Maybe he doesn't want to put in more hard work to move.

I can't find any defensive statistics from his time at Southern but here is an article that takes about where he is projected in MLB.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/weeks0304.html

 

No one questions whether Weeks is a Division I player anymore, but scouts still have questions about his future position. He played roughly 20 games at shortstop his first two seasons for Southern but primarily has worked in center field, where his above-average speed and arm play well. However, Weeks doesn’t see himself in the outfield.

 

"I always knew I had the talent to play the middle infield, and I think it’s just a matter of getting more repetitions," he says. "Whether it’s second base or shortstop, I know I have the ability to play middle infield well, and I’m glad coach Cador is going to play me at second base this season."

 

Weeks started to make some believers of his infield abilities last summer, his second with Team USA. In 2001, he made the team based on his numbers and his tools, and the national team was in a developmental mode. He overcame the initial awe factor of playing with major college players by hitting .277-2-10, ranking fourth on the team in batting.

 

In 2002, he was a veteran of the team and a leader, according to Team USA national team director Steve Cohen. When shortstop Dustin Pedroia (Arizona State) had to leave the team with a fractured orbital bone, Weeks moved in from the outfield to play second base, with Georgia Tech’s Eric Patterson moving over to short.

 

"He was taking infield all year with us but playing in the outfield," Cohen says. "When Pedroia got hurt, the logical thing was to move Rickie to the infield. We had some questions when he struggled in the trials turning the double play, and that’s what made us play him in the outfield.

 

"When he had to play second, though, the staff did a great job with him. Every time they took infield, every ball was live and had to go to second to turn two. It really helped, and Rickie is very teachable. He worked hard, and you could see his range improving and see him gaining more confidence."

[DuWayne Steurer]

The purpose of a guaranteed contract in sports is to ensure pay regardless of performance. The reason there are PA-based options is that it is the best objective proxy for health. I never said that the Brewers violated the contract, they didn't. But that doesn't mean Rickie isn't getting screwed. Same as K-Rod a few weeks back when he suddenly became the set-up man.

 

 

Yes, that is the purpose of a guaranteed contract. And the Brewers have paid Rickie regardless of his performance. However you're the one making the assumptions that a PA based option is put in place primarily for health concerns. It seems just as logical that it's put in place to address performance issues.

 

And if Rickie Weeks was performing at a high level, the Brewers would gladly pay him 11 million dollars a year. However he hasn't for the past 2 years.

 

Rickie isn't getting screwed out of anything. He signed a contract that gave the Brewers options. If he was hurt, the vesting option wouldn't be picked up. If his performance declined significantly, he wouldn't play enough for his option to vest.

 

I don't know how this can be painted as the Brewers wronging Rickie.

 

 

I don't know that I've ever seen any explicit language that states that plate-appearance based vesting options are specifically to safe guard against health issues. I can't imagine any team would be interested in paying Weeks 11 million dollars next year, based on his production from the last few years. A .700 OPS 2nd baseman, with middling-to-poor defense is not a guy you want to be paying top - 5 at his position money. A team making sure that option doesn't vest is doing smart business (IMO)

[logan82]

Crazy since Weeks played OF in college. He's absolutely terrible at 2b.

Do you have a link talking about this? I remember stories about him playing the infield with Prince in a little league touring team. I think he's played 2B his entire life.

 

He is also no longer terrible at 2B. That may be part of why he doesn't want to move. He's worked really hard for many years to become adequate defensively. Maybe he doesn't want to put in more hard work to move.

He was adequate at 2B for a few years but not since 2011 when he busted his ankle.

[DHonks]

Weeks is terrible at 2b. I agree that he became adequate for a little while. But every game we watch him now we see his range fail to get to routine balls that Scooter or Bianchi easily get to. His glove is unsure and his throwing mechanics have always looked lazy (like Brandon Phillips, only ineffective. Plus, when he covers bunts at first he shies away from the throws. Weeks may have a stronger arm, but Scooter ranks better across the board. Maybe Melvin is hoping for the NL to add the DH for Weeks

[SoupTown]

"Maybe Melvin is hoping for the NL to add the DH for Weeks"

 

You would play Weeks at DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SRB]

The purpose of a guaranteed contract in sports is to ensure pay regardless of performance. The reason there are PA-based options is that it is the best objective proxy for health. I never said that the Brewers violated the contract, they didn't. But that doesn't mean Rickie isn't getting screwed. Same as K-Rod a few weeks back when he suddenly became the set-up man.

 

 

Yes, that is the purpose of a guaranteed contract. And the Brewers have paid Rickie regardless of his performance. However you're the one making the assumptions that a PA based option is put in place primarily for health concerns. It seems just as logical that it's put in place to address performance issues.

 

And if Rickie Weeks was performing at a high level, the Brewers would gladly pay him 11 million dollars a year. However he hasn't for the past 2 years.

 

Rickie isn't getting screwed out of anything. He signed a contract that gave the Brewers options. If he was hurt, the vesting option wouldn't be picked up. If his performance declined significantly, he wouldn't play enough for his option to vest.

 

I don't know how this can be painted as the Brewers wronging Rickie.

 

 

I don't know that I've ever seen any explicit language that states that plate-appearance based vesting options are specifically to safe guard against health issues. I can't imagine any team would be interested in paying Weeks 11 million dollars next year, based on his production from the last few years. A .700 OPS 2nd baseman, with middling-to-poor defense is not a guy you want to be paying top - 5 at his position money. A team making sure that option doesn't vest is doing smart business (IMO)

 

Who is disputing that it's smart business? Of course it's the smart thing for the Brewers to do, but from Rickie's perspective he's still getting screwed. In his mind I'm sure he's still better than Scooter, and when they signed the contract nobody was thinking that Rickie would be 100% healthy but would be deliberately relegated to a PH-only role this season.

 

There is no explicit language because (I'm pretty sure) they are prohibited by the CBA from including that kind of performance-based language in the contracts. That's why teams use things like PA as a proxy for health and award/all-star voting as a proxy for performance. The downside for the player is that what was likely intended as a proxy for health is now being used as a (fully legal) excuse to duck the option.

 

It's very obvious that they were sitting him for the first fifth of the season. Now we are past the point where there is no way he can accumulate 400 PA and they are going to start using him more and more. So suddenly they ask him to play LF (now, once he will no longer get his option to vest)?

 

I absolutely want the Brewers to do this, because I don't want to pay Rickie $11M next season, but from his point of view I would be irked too.

[logan82]

Weeks needs 600 PA this season. The Brewers have to pay $1m if he makes 400 PA and they want to void his contract.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Who is disputing that it's smart business? Of course it's the smart thing for the Brewers to do, but from Rickie's perspective he's still getting screwed. In his mind I'm sure he's still better than Scooter, and when they signed the contract nobody was thinking that Rickie would be 100% healthy but would be deliberately relegated to a PH-only role this season.

 

There is no explicit language because (I'm pretty sure) they are prohibited by the CBA from including that kind of performance-based language in the contracts. That's why teams use things like PA as a proxy for health and award/all-star voting as a proxy for performance. The downside for the player is that what was likely intended as a proxy for health is now being used as a (fully legal) excuse to duck the option.

 

It's very obvious that they were sitting him for the first fifth of the season. Now we are past the point where there is no way he can accumulate 400 PA and they are going to start using him more and more. So suddenly they ask him to play LF (now, once he will no longer get his option to vest)?

 

I absolutely want the Brewers to do this, because I don't want to pay Rickie $11M next season, but from his point of view I would be irked too.

 

Why should any player, especially an underperforming, aging player, ever assume that he will be guaranteed playing time if he's healthy? He can make it up in his own mind that he's being 'screwed', but no player in any professional team sport should ever make an assumption of playing time given. Especially a guy who's put up the numbers (and defense) that Rickie has the past few years. A guy pushing into his 30's, sporting negative WAR 2 years running, with significant playing time, doesn't get more playing time, he gets less.

[Funketown]

Weeks from 2012 - 2014: .226/.322/.386/.705 in 1124 PA's, with 0.8 fWAR.

Gennett from 2013 - 2014: .309/.342/.452/.794 in 358 PA's, with 2.5 fWAR.

 

Weeks has 126 games left and needs another 352 PA's for the $1MM buyout. Unless Gennett gets hurt or Weeks plays somewhere other than 2B, they're almost certainly not going to have to pay that.

[FVBrewerFan]

Weeks has a right to be upset he won't get the necessary PA, and just not getting regular starts in general. Pretty sure anyone would feel that way, and Rickie has handled it pretty well. So have the Brewers, making it look good by offering playing time in LF.

 

I don't think anything here is out of the ordinary. Brewers are doing what they need to do, Rickie isn't happy about it, but who would be? If he keeps getting on base, maybe they can trade him without having to pay all or most of his salary. Or if he stays and keeps getting on base, is that a problem? Platoon seems to be working fine if you ask me.

[logan82]

Princefielderx1...rickie does have options remaining, but he has enough service time he could refuse

 

Exactly. They can't demote him. Needed to be done last year.

Now that I think about it Bill Hall was asked if he would go to AAA. He refused. JJ was sent down for the minimum amount of time just before he would have made 5 years.

[LouisEly]

There are better options defensively in the OF than Weeks and they are currently on the team in Gindl and Schaefer. Moving Weeks to the OF would not help the team in fact it would hurt the team so that arguement is dead. The only thing that it would help is get Weeks more AB's which I thought the majority did not want?

 

It is better for the team if Weeks stays at 2B.

I think the asking-Weeks-if-he'd-play-OF thing was during the couple of games where Braun and Schafer were hurt and they only had two healthy regular OFs, not anything recently. Gindl was in AAA at the time.

[RobertR]

Josh Harrison made a pretty good case for Rickie Weeks not trying to pickup outfield tonight, basically giving 2 runs to the Brewers.