Yost's last stand?

[brettac1]

I think the conclusion that should be drawn with Hall is that he was going to start hitting again no matter what, because he is a good hitter. It didn't have anything to do with where he was in the lineup, he was just in a slump.

 

But people who need to have a cut and dried cause and effect for every single thing that happens in baseball can't seem to believe that simple fact. Just like the fact that the Brewers were bound to start playing better. There were fans in the chat room saying they were the worst team in the NL.

[DougJones43]

Most specifically during the cold streak many wanted him fired NOW just because they were losing a lot

 

First, I don't think people wanted him fired because of the losing streak. I would view the losing streak as more of an icing on the cake sort of thing.

 

Second, what I really don't like is the broad-stroke that is always being used to paint anybody, who thinks Yost is a below average manager, as a short-tempered fool. I'm one of his biggest critics, but if you go back and read the thread, I said a decision shouldn't be made on him until after the season.

[DougJones43]

Hart wasnt' playing because he was hurt

 

Was he? Why didn't he go on the DL then? Why was he still being used to the tune of 50 sporadic at-bats during the month of May? That doesn't seem like a good way to handle an injured player.

 

I know his wrist was sore, but if it was bad enough to keep him from starting for a full month, he should have been put on the DL. Either you're hurt or you're not. It sure seemed like Ned really just wanted to get Gwynn in there some more to ride his "hot" bat. Then, when Gwynn expectedly stunk, and the Brewers offense went down the toilet, Hart was suddenly recovered and well enough to start playing everyday again? Come on...

[dadofandrew]

Hart played most of the time until he got hurt, then was rested and played sparingly for a month, and now has played nearly every day for 3 weeks or so.

 

It would take quite a conspiracy theory to think Corey was not banged up for much of that month, to say the least. The Crew rarely advertises injuries for strategy purposes, and have no reason to.

[DougJones43]

Hart played most of the time until he got hurt

 

Actually, he only got 54 at-bats in April. From April 20th to May 1st, he only started 4 of 11 games. Was he hurt then too?

 

 

It would take quite a conspiracy theory to think Corey was not banged up for much of that month

 

I don't doubt that he was banged up. But if he was well enough to play as much as he did, he should have been starting the whole time. Look at his gamelog, specifically from May 6th to May 27th. That was the time in which he was supposedly too injured to start. He was completely out of commision for 4 games. Then, he started 3 out of 4 games. Then he was too hurt to start again, which just so happened to coincide with Gwynn starting 7 out of 10 games during his "hot" streak. All the while, Hart was being played sporadically. Is that really a good approach to handling an injured player?

 

I don't think there is a conspiracy. I think the whole thing was handled poorly. I think if Hart was healthy enough to play, he should have been starting, and if not, he should have been placed on the DL so he could properly recover. I think Hart's been mistreated and mishandled dating back to last year, and his sore wrist served as a good reason for Yost to start Gwynn a bunch, which he wanted to do anyway.

[dadofandrew]

He played against every LHP, or maybe all but one. But, you often don't face many lefties in a stretch, so that allowed him to heal. He was likely the best option versus LHP even at 75% during that stretch.

[DougJones43]

He played against every LHP, or maybe all but one. But, you often don't face many lefties in a stretch, so that allowed him to heal. He was likely the best option versus LHP even at 75% during that stretch.

 

Why was he sitting so often during April then? From April 8th to May 1st, Hart only started 10 out of 21 games. He wasn't injured then, was he? So why was starting less than half of the games? Oh right, it was because Mench was "hot" then, and needed to start 13 of those games.

 

The utilization of Hart since his call-up, and the way he has been repeatedly squeezed out by Yost is pathetic and inexusable.

[dadofandrew]

I forget when Corey was injured, but it was in the second half of April. He played until he got hurt, then did not, and now that he is healthy, is playing again.

 

All offseason, we were told Hart would get 400-500 AB's, and barring injury, he will. Most of the unhappiness is from those who refuse to admit that his injury was worse than the team made public, which is commonplace for the Crew.

[PeaveyFury]

Most of the unhappiness is from those who refuse to admit that his injury was worse than the team made public, which is commonplace for the Crew.

 

I think if that's truly the case, the unhappiness should instead come from those who wonder why he wasn't placed on the DL instead of leaving us short a player and especially a RH bat for some time....

[DougJones43]

I forget when Corey was injured, but it was in the second half of April. He played until he got hurt, then did not, and now that he is healthy, is playing again.

 

So let me see if I have got this straight:

 

April 2nd - April 7th: Healthy

April 8th - May 1st: Injured, but still sporadically starts nearly half of the games

May 2nd - May 5th: Healthy

May 6th - May 12th: Injured

May 13th - May 16th: Healthy

May 17th - May 27th: Injured, but still getting a few at-bats

May 28th - Present: Healthy

 

Okay, you're right. It all makes sense.

 

 

Most of the unhappiness is from those who refuse to admit that his injury was worse than the team made public

 

If the injury was so bad, and spanned almost 2 months, why wasn't he placed on the DL at any point?

[dadofandrew]

He was not injured until late April, not early. And, he could still play, and did, but pretty much only versus LHP, and as an occasional PH. As I said earlier, Corey at 75% was probably as good as anyone they would have brought up.

 

From Google:

 

Corey Hart didn't start against a left-hander Monday because of a sore right wrist.

 

Hart was spotted wearing a brace on the wrist a week ago, but the Brewers denied he was injured. It turned out that he was, of course. Hart originally hurt his wrist while stealing second and third base April 21. X-rays were negative, and Hart has played since, but the injury flared up and head physician Dr. William Raasch recommended rest. He's likely to be limited to bench duty for the next few days.

Source: Brewers.mlb.com

 

Apr. 30, 2007 - 9:08 p.m. ET

Although he's been seen wearing a brace on his right wrist, Corey Hart isn't injured, manager Ned Yost said.

Hart hurt his right wrist running the bases during the Brewers' last homestand. He's available off the bench Monday after Yost again declined to start him in right field.

 

He was at less than full strength from 4/21 until late May, though the team denied it for much of the time, of course. Since his healthy return, he has been doing fine and had no health trouble, it would appear.

 

As I have said, you can tell when Hart was hurt just by looking at his game log. He started 2 of 3 early on, and most all the time since his wrist has healed. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=5973

[DougJones43]

He was not injured until late April, not early.

 

That basically leads right back to the question I posed before which nobody seems to have an answer for. Why did he start regularly riding the pine as early as April 8th? Again: April 8th to May 1st, Hart started only 10 of 21 games. If he wasn't hurt then, why wasn't he playing???

 

I feel like this discussion is going in circles, with people constantly using ambiguous and incomplete explanations to defend Ned's baffling misuse of Corey Hart.

[gregmag]

I'm a big Hart fan, I was unhappy when he wasn't playing, and I think both sides in this debate have made some good points. The one thing that sort of pushes me toward not blaming Yost too much on this score is that, eventually, Hart started playing every day. If Yost was hell bent on snubbing Hart, then how have matters come to work out so well?

 

One possible answer that would support the criticism of Yost is that Hart only got to play when Yost thought he was out of other options. That, however, may just be another way of saying that Yost rode the hot hands of Mench and Gwynn when he had at least some justification for doing so, a justification that gets stronger if Hart was indeed banged up.

 

As for the argument that, assuming Hart was banged up, the team should have DL'd him . . . I see the basis for the criticism, and I don't have any special expertise about handling moderately injured players, but this is hardly the first time a team has opted to ride out an injury rather than take decisive action. Maybe they figured that Hart was healthy enough to play a bench role and that he was more valuable in that role than anybody with whom they could/would have replaced him. In any event, the decision whether or not to DL him wasn't entirely up to Yost, so I can't see counting that decision as a major mark against him.

 

Greg.

[DougJones43]

He was at less than full strength from 4/21 until late May, though the team denied it for much of the time, of course.

 

To me, denying an injury for over a month, in an attempt to gain some type of information-withholding competetive advantage is an asinine way to handle one of your best young prospects. And it still doesn't answer the question of why Hart was only starting about half the games dating all the way back to early April.

 

 

One possible answer that would support the criticism of Yost is that Hart only got to play when Yost thought he was out of other options.

 

That's what I think, and I guess I'm just having a little difficutly buying the fact that Hart magically became 100% healthy exactly when Mench and Gwynn went down the tubes. Now, with the way Hart is hitting, there is no way he can be sat for even a day, and I think Ned is finally realizing what kind of player he is.

 

 

If Yost was hell bent on snubbing Hart...

 

I don't think that Ned is evil, or has it in for Hart. I just think he severely underestimates Hart's ability and potential, and has a tendency to overestimate guys like Mench and Gwynn.

[Nearsighted Views]

For the record, I've been neither a Nedley fan or detractor but since the break, I really like what he's done.

 

I kind of like the attitude in the press conference in the last game prior to the break.

 

In the second game back, he managed the pitching staff weill with Gallardo and made a tough decision to PH for Weeks.

 

Today, he hooked Suppan right away.

 

Granted, I may not be saying this if Graffy strikes out but I thought it took some stones to sit Ricky there and his loyalty to his guys has been too strong at times. Seeing that he's bashed for every bad move he's made (and I've been there for some), I think it's important to point out when he does well.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yost is also being regarded highly around the league. He is definitely a top candidate for manager of the year if the Brewers make the playoffs.

[Team Canada]

If the Brewers make the playoffs Yost will be a near unanimous MOY winner.

[bigredrobbo]

Quote:

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Yost is also being regarded highly around the league. He is definitely a top candidate for manager of the year if the Brewers make the playoffs.

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How can this be? There are dozens on this board who are better managers than Yost...