Yost's last stand?

[FVBrewerFan]

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And this, i would argue, is unreasonable. The manager can only put the team in position to win. He doesn't score and prevent runs.

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Of course it's unreasonable!!!! It's also reality. Making the "right" moves only takes you so far. Winning is what matters. It doesn't have to be fair, it doesn't have to be right, that's just the way it works. I didn't make the rules.

 

Melvin is sitting back, prous of all the talent he brought in. His only concern is whether he believes Yost can ultimately "get it done" this year or next year with all the talent he has to work with. Period.

[Jacob008]

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Of course it's unreasonable

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So then you agree that firing the manager mid-season would be unjustified? Or that justification does not require reason?

[Phenomenal Smith]

I've never been able to figure out what effect a manager has on a team.The best that a fan can hope for is a guy who does a decent job of filling out the lineup card and handling the pitching staff. What happens beyond that is hard to evaluate - if not impossible.

 

Here's a curious bit of useless info. All 3 franchises that have been managed by Jimy Williams went to the World Series within a few season after they fired him. The Blue Jays fired him in 1989 and were in the WS by 1992. The Red Sox fired him in 2001 and were in the WS in 2004. The Astros fired him in 2004 and went to the Series 2005. So, there's your Plan B if you want to get rid of Yost. Just hire Jimy for a season, fire him, then go the Series a year or two after he gets fired.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

But I do think that he's having a good year, and any talk of removing him before the season is over is crazy talk.

 

I agree with this --Unless the team becomes unglued or something catastrophic happens -- I can't see Yost's firing as a positive.

 

And, overall I think he has done better this year than last -- but I think he is at the end of his rope, and its time to pull the cake out of the oven.

[Lil Dummy]

We heard about how this team had great 'chemistry' early in the season, and I think that we all chalked this up, to some extent, on the gaudy won/loss record.

 

Given the struggles of the past month-plus, however, one has to think that this really is a pretty tight clubhouse. Has there been even a hint of infighting? I'm not saying you can draw a direct corrollation between team chemistry and on-field success, or Melvin would be best served replacing the current roster with my beer league softball team. However, all else being equal, I think clubhouse harmony is a good thing. I think Yost gets a lot of credit for this - he's a steadying influence, and the guys like playing for him.

 

What's all of that worth at the end of the day? Maybe nothing. Maybe they need a guy who will jump up and down and start screaming. Lose a few more series, and I'll come in and do it myself.

 

Just my two cents, Yost may not be manager of the year, but he's done an above average job to date.

[FVBrewerFan]

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So then you agree that firing the manager mid-season would be unjustified? Or that justification does not require reason?

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Firing a manger during the season could be justified, depends on the situation. With Yost, it may or may not be. None of us know what goes on in the clubhouse.

 

Now, your 2nd question is a good one. No, it's commonplace to fire managers and head coaches without a laundry list of objective, substantiated reasons. Steinbrenner did it for years, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. What did Garner ever do to get fired? You look at all the chronic losing teams in MLB (Rockies, DRays, Royals, etc.) and they make a change basically for the sake of change.

 

I'm not arguing if that's the right approach or not, that's just the way it works in sports. It's about winning, and if management loses faith in you, game over. Trying hard and making the right moves only lasts so long.

[FVBrewerFan]

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Has there been even a hint of infighting?

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Good question. But beyond that, are the players buying what Ned is selling? Is it a team that expects to win every day? Do they believe Ned can bring them to the promised land? Do they approach an AB the way Ned wants them to?

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. You better believe Melvin and Mark A are paying attention to these things.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

if the brewers fall out of first place and under .500 in the month of June, I feel Ned will be gone. as I recall it happened to buck rodgers in 82 and the brewers ened the year under HK and in the WS. someone has to be held accountable.

[Ennder]

I think I'd hold the players accountable, they are who wins or loses the game afterall.

 

Its not Yost's fault that Cordero blew a game in Texas. Its not his fault that the SP has been all over the place lately. Its not his fault that most of the team put up a sub .300 OBP in May.

[whynotthebrewers]

I agree Ender. All the Yost talk is just funny to listen to but it does little to make the players hit or pitch better. He did little early on when JJ was unreal, Coco was untouchable, and Estrada was hitting. Now prince is the only one hitting and Yost is to blame. He is doing the same thing he did all year long and now the players are pitching worse and we are not scoring enough runs.

 

When we start hitting and pitching again, probably against lower teams, this will quiet down. Until then, it is a way to vent. But you rarely hear a bench hardy or hall like you do counsell and graffy. All of them have performed poorly recently but the old vets take most of the beating. Fact is, almost everyone has had a down time and is the cause for the struggles. Changing the man who fills out the lineup card is not going to make them all hit again. Time is the only chance at a cure and we all hope the the team turns those numbers around.

[Lil Dummy]

"When we start hitting and pitching again, probably against lower teams, this will quiet down."

 

Ironically, I had more beef with Yost's managing, specifically his use of the bullpen, when they were hot.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think I'd hold the players accountable, they are who wins or loses the game afterall.

 

Perhaps -- this argument is simplistic. If the Brewers finish below .500 this year -- I'd hope they would address and upgrade any positions that they felt they could, including manager.

[olliegjw]

It's kind of funny. Everyone on here holds Leyland in high regard, as they should. However, if you go check out the Tigers board on espn, all the Tigers fans are calling for his head. It must be a universal thing for fans to irrationally call for the firing of a manager when a team is struggling, even if they are in first place, or just went to the World Series.

[DougJones43]

He is doing the same thing he did all year long

 

Many people questioned and were critical of some of Yost's decisions, even while the Brewers were winning. Those people were repeatedly told to keep quiet, stop complaining and just be satisfied that the Brewers were playing decent baseball for once. Questioning anything the team did, or voicing concern over potentially problematic issues was crazy and inappropriate while they were winning for a month.

[logan82]

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When we start hitting and pitching again, probably against lower teams, this will quiet down.

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I doubt it. I remember that people were calling for Yost's head after we started 2-0 this year. Some people will never be happy. Of course that is their right. It is also our right to disagree with them.

[Ennder]

Mets are now 4-12 in their last 16 games, do you think people are asking to fire Randolph?

[endaround]

Yes

mets.forumup.us/about62585-0.html

[dadofandrew]

Most casual fans think baseball is basically batting order and the manager's "strategery". I don't think either one means much, and rarely discuss them.

 

Ned is doing the exact same thing he was when the team was 24-10. Good teams are still good regardless, and ditto for bad ones. Obviously, changes are made for a variety of reasons, but it rarely makes a difference.

[DougJones43]

Mets are now 4-12 in their last 16 games, do you think people are asking to fire Randolph?

 

The people who don't think Yost is a good manager didn't base that opinion off 16 games, so stop implying that. I know you want to try and paint all people who don't care for the manager as some kind of irrational, angry mob armed with pitchforks, but little jabs like this are and misleading and unnecessary.

[PeaveyFury]

Obviously, changes are made for a variety of reasons, but it rarely makes a difference.

 

Of course one could also argue that both Estrada and Hall started having success again after being dropped in the order some....

[Ennder]

The people who want to fire Yost mostly use the team record as their barometer for doing it. If Yost doesn't produce a winner this season he should be fired is the common call. Most specifically during the cold streak many wanted him fired NOW just because they were losing a lot, I don't see how the Mets cold streak is any different.

 

I think Yost is just an average manager, most of the complaints about him are misguided and the team is going to make the playoffs or miss the playoffs because of the talent they have not because of the manager.

 

But thats just me.

[DougJones43]

Of course one could also argue that both Estrada and Hall started having success again after being dropped in the order some....

 

Or what about the fact that Corey Hart is finally playing everyday, after getting stuck on the bench for a month behind the likes of Mench and TGJ, while the offense struggled? Now that Hart is in the lineup consistently (which should have been the case all along), he has the 4th highest OPS and best OBP on the Brewers.

 

You really think that kind of stuff doesn't make a difference?

[PeaveyFury]

If Yost doesn't produce a winner this season he should be fired is the common call.

 

And I think the correct one. But a lot of people here also agreed that the earliest Yost would get fired was probably the All-Star Break, and for that to happen, they'd have to have dropped under .500 and fallen out of first.

I don't see how the Mets cold streak is any different.

 

I'm sure it's not. While I don't frequent any Mets Message Boards, I'd be fairly shocked if there wasn't a large contingent there clamoring for Randolph to be canned.

[Ennder]

Hart wasnt' playing because he was hurt, hard to really comment one way or another on it. Yes getting your players healthy is going to help you win games, won't argue with that.

 

Hall moving down in the lineup had nothing to do with his slump though, in fact he started hitting even better when he was moved back up. Estrada should have never been batting 5th so we agree there.

[PeaveyFury]

Hall moving down in the lineup had nothing to do with his slump though, in fact he started hitting even better when he was moved back up.

 

Well, the conclusion can be drawn that the drop forced him to be more patient and such, and after he started taking his walks again, he started driving the ball to right again.