Yost's last stand?

[mikerollins]

Just got home and reading through the thread.

 

I can't even believe people are saying the team was "Yosted".

 

How about "Verlandered"??

 

So what...you didnt like Graffanino for Braun....big deal.

 

Braun goes 2 for 4 with 2 solo shots and we lose 4-2.

 

Verlander was phenominal.

 

You act like the lineup was the worst ever constructed, but who would you have rather had in there??

 

Mench against the toughest righty in the league?

Gwynn?

Miller?

Obviously you wanted Braun in....maybe Yost wanted to save Braun the 0-4 with 4 K's to keep some of his confidence.

 

I just dont' see how a no-hitter can be blamed on the lineup??

So Counsell, Hardy, Fielder, Hart, Jenkins, Estrada, Hall and Gross aren't to blame? Just Ned Yost's decision to play Graffanino instead of Braun??

[UeckerAddict]

Everone is saying why not to fire Yost ("everyone is unfairly blaming Yost"), but I want to hear a suggestion of why he SHOULD be manager. I think he has had one winning record in his years as a Major League and Minor League manager.

 

I'm really open to suggestions (no joke).

 

What is the reason that he should be our manager? Why him over anyone else? "it's not really his fault" is not a real answer because you could say that about many people who would be manager. Why Ned Yost?

[Brian the Automator]

[ Everone is saying why not to fire Yost ("everyone is unfairly blaming Yost&quothttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif , but I want to hear a suggestion of why he SHOULD be manager. ]

 

His stuff's already in the manager's office. Sounds like a big hassle... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[iluvlamp]

Ned Yost hit a big homer for the Breers. He knows how to handle lineups and relievers. He is a great player manager.

 

Besides abusing pitchers, Ned is Dusty Baker. Sad but true. Why else not play your best players at all times. You know why? Yost is a players manager. Everyone must get their hacks. Everyone must stay fresh for some irrational reason even though these are conditioned athletes.

[mikerollins]

1. He does a great job of staying level-headed throughout the entire season regardless of how things are going. (unlike people on this site!)

 

2. He does a great job of sticking with players in tough situations to help them gain confidence.

 

3. He's not afraid to manage, based on his gut feeling, instead of what the popular decision is.

 

4. He was a coach under one of the greatest managers of all-time for many years. (Bobby Cox)

 

5. Players like to play for him.

 

6. He wants to be in Milwaukee and has something invested in seeing this team get back to the post-season.

 

7. I think he does a great job keeping guys fresh and staying with the hot bat when the situation dictates it.

 

8. His team's play hard.

 

9. He's been the manager through the tough times when there was no talent. Now that the talent is here...much of which he broke into the league...you want him fired? And start all over?

 

Sorry I'm not buying it.

[UeckerAddict]

Sorry I'm not buying it.

 

Buying what? I asked a question, I didn't make a declarative.

 

It was something Molitor once said in an interview that makes me ask these questions:

"Honestly, if we had never replaced Buck with Harvey Kuenn we would never have sniffed that world series."

[mikerollins]

Ummm..You asked it. I said I'm not buying it. Asking it, suggesting it, whatever you want to call it...I'm not agreeing with it.

 

Who's our Harvey Kuehn? Who are we going to axe yost for that will get us to the World Series? Seriously.

[UeckerAddict]

Ummm..You asked it. I said I'm not buying it. Asking it, suggesting it, whatever you want to call it...I'm not agreeing with it.

 

Yeah, asked it.

 

If I ask "Do you like the color blue?" do you answer "I'm not buying it" ?

 

I asked why Ned should be manager because I wanted to hear some answers instead of just "don't blame Ned."

 

I get it....don't ask questions, right? Just wave the banner and shut my mouth. Why have discourse on a message board? Just make declaratives. Don't ask.

 

Who's our Harvey Kuehn? Who are we going to axe yost for that will get us to the World Series? Seriously.

 

Don't know. I said it got me to ASK the question, not state some authoritative answer.

[Time for a Miller]

I think Yost does a good job managing the bullpen, integrating young players into the major league, and giving players days off. He has also handled the slight controversy in the outfield quite nicely explaining the players roles and ending any ill feelings before they began. Watching Yost and Bobby Cox, his mentor, on cable indicates their extremely similar style of managing. I think people who have a problem with Yost would have a problem with any manager the Brewers will ever have.

 

I've heard lots of criticism of Yost for the line-up tonight that got no hit, but really what is he supose to do when a lineup-gets no hit. It's not like a crappy batting order ended up killing rallies. Braun needed a day of rest since he has that lingering wrist problem from AAA. I ask you who else was he suppose to start? Tony Gwynn in right or center instead of Bill Hall or Corey Hart? Put Graffy farther down in the order maybe, so Fielder would get one more at bat then maybe we would not have been the victims of a no-hitter. Most managers don't stack their line-up against the no-no. They manage to win.

 

Yost is one of the better managers in the game and will be with the Brewers for many more years. Baseball is a game with a small success rate often times where the manager gets little credit when things go right (ex. Villanueva out of the pen, the win % when leading after the seventh), but all the blame by some when things go bad (a pitchers meltdown and the accompanying ahhh he should have pulled him ealier).

 

Also, I am tired of people continually critisizing Yost when he gives players days off. It's a long season and you increase your chances of staying healthy and therefore winning more games by resting players. Some people would only be happy if the same 8 guys started every game and Ben sheets pitched everygame (not the Sheets haters though). The best managers in the game know that most players can't play a full season.

 

He has not had a winning season since they really have not had the talent level of other teams. Also having a winning season every year is difficult for the best managers and big-market teams. Tommy Lasorda had only 13 winning seasons with the Dodgers in 20 years.

 

I personally think managers have little to do with a teams final record. A lot more is determined on the field by the players with the stick and ball in their hand. The manager is a perfect scapegoat for some people and so be it.

 

Milwaukee has one of the better managers in baseball. Get use to seeing his face in the dugout. He is going to be here for a long time.

[mikerollins]

Quote:

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I think Yost does a good job managing the bullpen,

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I couldn't agree more. That shoud have definitely been on my list. He gives the players their role and puts them in positions to succeed. He's not afraid to take the heat if his decision backfires and more often than not he pushes all the right buttons with the bullpen.

[mikerollins]

Quote:

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I asked why Ned should be manager because I wanted to hear some answers instead of just "don't blame Ned."

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And I gave you a list of 9 reasons why I think he's a good manager, followed by saying..I'm not buying the idea that SOME think it's a good idea to fire him.

[iluvlamp]

Quote:

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I think Yost does a good job managing the bullpen,

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I can't even comment on this really. It's the biggest problem Yost has. AND, he's had it since his first year. The examples have been gone over and over again, and you really think he is good at bullpen management? The guy let a guy pitch with a broke fingernail. BLEEDING! And he knew that DLR was having problems before that. He let Turnbow pitch so long last year that we were going to collectively cut our hearts out. Aquino was a disaster and he kept letting him pitch. How about the many times a big inning was breering and not going to the bullpen.

 

ITS HIS BIGGEST FAULT!

[UeckerAddict]

followed by saying..I'm not buying the idea that SOME think it's a good idea to fire him.

 

That's not what you said.

 

Your very next post said "You" (as in me) not "some people".

The way you said it above is fine. The way you said it in your original post and its sequel made it seem as though my question was a statement that must be refuted, therefore I tried to show that wasn't my intention.

 

My point on the Molitor quote was that it was in direct opposition to peoples' thoughts that managers don't make a difference. Not that I had a guy with world series assurance sitting in my back pocket.

[DougJones43]

Wait until the season ends, and see how things work out. Ned Yost shouldn't be fired during the season. The no-hitter wasn't probably his fault directly (lineup, batting order, etc.), but nevertheless, this is his team. They are his players who he has been grooming and coaching for a number of years. He picks the coaches that work with these guys on a daily basis. He manages everything baseball-related about these 25 players for about 8 months of the year. Ultimately, how they perfom reflects heavily on him. He should be embarassed by what transpired tonight. The approach at the plate by many of his hitters was pathetic, and that falls partially on his shoulders. Not only did Verlander toss a no-hitter, he demolished his previous career high in strikeouts.

 

There is talent on this team, and they have been very lucky with injuries so far. So those excuses are no good anymore. Again, we do have a winning record and lead the division, and he deserves credit for that. But things look bad right now, and if we miss the playoffs after a 24-10 headstart with a talented club, Yost needs to be replaced. It's difficult to determine and point to all of the exact correlations between a manager and a team's success. Even so, this is his team, and it's time he is held accountable for how they perform.

[valpocrewsader]

Iluvlamp is right (all three times). Yost's abysmal bullpen management is his biggest fault.

[DougJones43]

He gives the players their role and puts them in positions to succeed.

 

Like when he uses Brian Shouse against right-handed hitters? Or bats Estrada 5th? Or plays CF defensive-whiz Tony Gwynn Jr. in RF? Or played Jenkins against LHP all year last year before outright benching him and then playing him against LHP again? How about when he batted Kevin Mench in the cleanup spot? Or when he kept trotting Turnbow into save situations last year when Turnbow couldn't even throw a strike?

[sbrylski]

Iluvlamp is right (all three times). Yost's abysmal bullpen management is his biggest fault.

 

He's made mistakes, as all managers do. I get just as mad as the next guy when he does, and we are all yelling at the TV before we blow the lead, but that happens to all teams.

 

Does he get no credit for the 24-10 start? He just gets the blame for the last few weeks, because his lineups aren't good? What did Yost stop doing as soon as we went to New York?

[iluvlamp]

Quote:

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Or played Jenkins against LHP all year last year before outright benching him and then playing him against LHP again?

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I went on and on and on about the bullpen. This was a great point as well.

[sbrylski]

Like when he uses Brian Shouse against right-handed hitters? Or bats Estrada 5th? Or plays CF defensive-whiz Tony Gwynn Jr. in RF? Or played Jenkins against LHP all year last year before outright benching him and then playing him against LHP again? How about when he batted Kevin Mench in the cleanup spot? Or when he kept trotting Turnbow into save situations last year when Turnbow couldn't even throw a strike?

 

Or when he managed the 3 headed 3B monster to a top 3B production in the league? Or when he stuck with Jenkins in '05 and he completely tore it up in the 2nd half? Or when he stuck with Hardy through that horrible first 3 months? Or the other 95% of the games when his bullpen moves were the right ones and we won the game?

[DougJones43]

Does he get no credit for the 24-10 start?

 

Well, I just said this:

Quote:

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Again, we do have a winning record and lead the division, and he deserves credit for that.

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He just gets the blame for the last few weeks, because his lineups aren't good? What did Yost stop doing as soon as we went to New York?

 

Like I said, there is so much more to it than that. You can't just look at it on a game-to-game basis. Between Yost and Melvin, they are completely in charge of everything baseball-related that goes on in the organization. The one thing they don't have control over is injuries, which is why they got a mulligan last year. There haven't been injury issues this year. In fact, our relative health should be considered an advantage we have over other teams. Yost and Melvin need to be held accountable if we don't finish the season with a good record. It's not to that point yet, but things don't look very good.

 

Give it til the end of the year, and judge them then. But if you don't look to the GM and manager for accountability, then who?

[DougJones43]

Or the other 95% of the games when his bullpen moves were the right ones and we won the game?

 

First of all, you can't just arbitrarily make up numbers like 95%. Second, he hasn't won very many games. But if you want to give him "credit" for his career mark of 59 games under .500, then by all means...

[tigerbrew]

For me, if the Brewers don't make the playoffs this season, Yost should be demoted. I had said this in the offseason too. Even Yost had set the bar to this level for this team in his pre-season interviews.

 

Personally, I'm more of a results oriented guy and including this season, Yost has been given ample opportunity to get results. If he fails to meet the target this season, I think he should be demoted.

[Ennder]

If I had to guess I'd say 50% of the bullpen complaints are by people who don't pay attention to the previous usage of players, 25% are completely clueless based off small sample sizes of data and 25% of the complaints are actually Yost screwing up. The whole thing is overblown.

 

Yost is an average manager, I don't really see a reason to fire him but I don't think the team is going to somehow be significantly worse if we switch managers next season. I'm just overall pretty indifferent. Odds are probably higher we get a worse manager than a better one if we replace him since there are so few good managers out there.

 

My expectations going into the season were lower than many, I expected low 80's wins and a 2nd place finish BECAUSE its a bad division. If we get through the season relatively injury free and can't make 81 wins I could see them getting rid of Yost. I don't think this team has the talent/experience to consider the season a failure if we don't reach the playoffs though, even in a bad division.

[DougJones43]

I don't think this team has the talent to consider the season a failure if we don't reach the playoffs though, even in a bad division

 

Well, then at what point does Doug Melvin start getting looked at? He's had time to build the team to his liking, and has been given a decent sized payroll. Other teams have and are finding ways to win with even smaller payrolls and less fan support.

 

Honestly, if we don't start succeeding soon, somebody has to be held accountable, because all of the excuses have run out. I don't care much for the "we're not that good or talented, and that's just kind of the way it is" attitude. If the guys we have had running the show for a number of years just can't find a way to get the job done, bring in somebody else.

[sbrylski]

DJ, didn't mean to make it sound like everything was directed at you.

 

Like I said, there is so much more to it than that. You can't just look at it on a game-to-game basis.

 

It seems the people against Yost (not all) just tally up all the mistakes or backfires Yost has had, then say that's why he should be fired. I agree, there is more to it, you have to look at the whole picture. His successes, his failures, win% relative to talent, overall impact of any manager on a baseball team, difference between Yost and a replacement, ect.

 

Not saying you are like this, DJ, but some that say "Yost sucks at bullpen management, he should be fired"... 1) Assume they know everything about bullpen management, and 2) aren't looking at the whole picture.