Doug Melvin appreciation thread

[JohnBriggs12]

Hindsight is 20/20 when we are talking about guys like Morneau, Morse, Liriano, Burnett, etc. There were plenty of red flags at the time those guys were signed. Of course I wish the Brewers could have gotten them now; but 29 other teams weren't too excited about them either

 

Suppan was an obvious mistake; the Weeks contract in hindsight as dumb, 1st base is a black hole. However I think Melvin has overall done a really good job keeping this team competitive almost every year since the "core" players starting emerging in 2007.

 

If I had time to look I'd find posts where I lobbied for Liriano, Morse and Morneau well before they were signed. I was taken to task by many on here on each of those. That's not to say I haven't missed many times either, but I did specifically bring up those three.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hindsight is 20/20 when we are talking about guys like Morneau, Morse, Liriano, Burnett, etc. There were plenty of red flags at the time those guys were signed. Of course I wish the Brewers could have gotten them now; but 29 other teams weren't too excited about them either

 

Suppan was an obvious mistake; the Weeks contract in hindsight as dumb, 1st base is a black hole. However I think Melvin has overall done a really good job keeping this team competitive almost every year since the "core" players starting emerging in 2007.

 

If I had time to look I'd find posts where I lobbied for Liriano, Morse and Morneau well before they were signed. I was taken to task by many on here on each of those. That's not to say I haven't missed many times either, but I did specifically bring up those three.

 

The "red flags" on those guys were in reality "yellow flags" and there's a huge difference. Discerning the difference separates the great GM's from the good. Melvin falls in the good category more often than not but Reynolds wasn't a bad signing. Still Hart is producing for Seattle too and could have been brought back relatively cheaply.

[RobDeer 45]

Over back on topic, I really do appreciate him giving us a long stint of competitive baseball, which we didn't have forever. As fans, we can pick apart every move and every non move, but the bottom line is the baseball in Milwaukee has been really fun for awhile now. Thanks Doug.

[Bombers]

HiAndTight / Danzig - Of Course everyone would like to have awesome starting pitching for $500k a year. I 110% agree. However reality tells you, the Brewers have never been able to do that. Ever. So probably poor wording on my end, but if we are unable to develop good young cheap starting pitching, the Brewers will need to pay more (like Lohse / Garza) to continue having consistent success. Utilizing pitchers like Looper, Bush, Narveson, etc will not set you up for success. In those years, they overspent on fielding and underspent on starting pitching. I would also place relief pitching on the overspent side as well. I am glad gone are the days that we signed the Riske's, Gagne's, etc and now rely on pulling in guys from the minors to fill relief pitching spots.

 

The numbers I used were from Cot's: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/milwaukee-brewers/ ... So if they are not correct, don't blame me

[adambr2]

Here's a question that maybe someone with a little better knowledge of the inner workings of the draft can help me out with.

 

How much does the GM have to do with the draft? Do they have the final say on all picks? No picks? Just the early ones? Or not at all and this is the responsibility of the scouting director with the GM more of just a bystander of the process?

 

I think there's definitely a big disparity in the recent level of success in free agency/internal extensions/trades and the draft, so I'm really curious about this.

[TheCrew07]

i was expecting Melvin haters to chime in

 

See, that's why no one is posting that way because the alternative point of view is framed as "hating on a guy". I've been as critical as Melvin as anyone but I certainly don't hate the guy.

 

Also it would be in extremely poor taste to jump into a thread celebrating something and bag all over it. I'm not a fan of soccer at all, in truth I can't stand it, but I'm not going to pile on the people who enjoy and discuss it in the Off Topic forum either. To each their own... if people want to celebrate Melvin by all means go ahead, I don't see any reason to rain on that parade.

[lcbj68c]

So now we base our FA decisions on AL vs NL rules/scheduling? I understand that he's trying to say that some guys are best suited to DH, but good grief, he added up the day games and thought, "naw, that's too may day games for Hart to play after a night game. Those trots to first base will make him ineffective."

 

•Brewers GM Doug Melvin acknowledged that Kendrys Morales’ name came up in the team’s first base discussions, but, “there are just a pool of players we can’t consider because of the National League-American League dynamic. That’s why I’m hoping we’re all playing by the same set of rules someday. It’s a reason we had to let Corey Hart go because we play 36 day games and it’s tough to come back after a night game.”

 

Do you think by "playing by the same set of rules", Melvin favors the DH or eliminating it?

[paul253]

Do you think by "playing by the same set of rules", Melvin favors the DH or eliminating it?

 

Like a lot of us, my guess is he has a preference but at the end of the day doesn't really care as long as it's the same in both leagues. Imagine how different this team would have been, or would be now, if we had a DH. We probably never would have traded Aoki and Braun would still be in left field. Gamel would have gotten a chance sooner. Overbay wouldn't have been traded when he was. It's an absurd rule and it needs to be changed so that it's the same in both leagues, especially now that AL and NL teams play each other every day almost.

 

Back to Melvin. I hated his signing of Garza, not just because it eliminated Thornburg's spot in the rotation but I thought 4 years was WAY too long. Garza hasn't really done anything yet to change my mind. This is a signing that COULD end up really hurting us, the same way the Suppan and Weeks deal hurt. On the flip side, I didn't like his extension of Gomez because I didn't think Gomez was going to continue to progress and I thought we should trade him when he value was so high. I will happily admit that I was very wrong about that as Gomez and again having a great year and the extension is paying off tremendously.

[SRB]

Melvin is 100% correct that certain players (like Hart, Fielder) are more valuable to AL teams because they can keep them in the lineup as DH. As a result, AL teams should be able to in theory outbid NL teams for free agents. It's not like Milwaukee could have signed Prince if Detroit didn't have a DH though.

 

He's probably just trying to build leverage here. Which, in turn, means there are probably active discussions with Morales/Boras.

[lcbj68c]

I wonder if Morales can handle ALL those day games? Offensively our platoon is driving in runs and winning games. Any Morales deal would hopefully be for 2015. We better ask for very little day games, it possible in 2015, otherwise potential free agents are automatically crossed off.

[jjfanec]

Just wanted to bump this thread as the Brewers currently sit 17 games over .500. Melvin has built a team with a very solid lineup and a rotation that is doing the job. The bullpen has taking some hits with injuries but this team is a lot of fun to follow and watch.

[jerichoholicninja]

For as much bad luck as the Brewers had last year, they are having that much good luck this year. Injuries have been pretty minimal and outside of 1B and Segura the lineup has been hitting pretty consistently well. The bullpen has been fantastic and the rotation has been solid. The only things I think we can really give Doug credit for this year is giving Scooter a chance and not selling the farm for a replacement level first basemen.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The only things I think we can really give Doug credit for this year is giving Scooter a chance and not selling the farm for a replacement level first basemen.

 

Will Smith says hello

KRod says hello

Zach Duke of all people says hello

Carlos Gomez and Jonathan Lucroy's contracts say hello

pretty much the entire roster that's 17 games over 0.500 says hello.

 

he's the general manager - he makes roster decisions on players both short and long term...he's done a great job putting together this roster, which I'd argue has more pitching depth on the 40-man than just about any other Brewers team I can think of. Not the rotation studs like CC, Sheets, and Greinke, but a solid group of starters and a deep pen.

 

the flaw with this team is a thin group of backup position players which makes for a poor bench...I think the bench gets addressed one way or the other before the trade deadline. Injuries, particularly to a handful of key vets (Braun, ARam, Cargo), could derail this season...but that's the case with most teams if their best position players go down.

 

I give Melvin a ton of credit for putting together a team that by all indications is above average at pitching, hitting, and fielding...if that continues it's good enough to make the playofs - which gives them a shot most of us didn't think was possible going into the season. There's what, 1 team with a better record than the Brewers in all of baseball almost 1/2way into the season? Not bad, IMO!

[adambr2]

I'd also agree that saying Scooter is really the only thing we can give him credit for is really underselling some of the bullpen moves.

 

I've been critical of Melvin in the past, but he's turned a team that wasn't very good last year into an NL best 17 over .500 near the end of June. He did it with a pretty lackluster farm system using mostly only very subtle roster moves (trade Aoki for Smith, sign Duke, sign K-Rod, sign Reynolds).

 

It's hard not to be impressed with that. Locking up top players at their respective positions (Lucroy, Gomez) to reasonable team-friendly deals has been huge.

[Roderick]

The only things I think we can really give Doug credit for this year is giving Scooter a chance and not selling the farm for a replacement level first basemen.

 

I think you have to give Doug more credit for trading Aoki and getting Smith, then letting Gennett play. A lot of people wanted to stay pat in the OF. So first he had to like Davis enough to move Aoki and then he did a great evaluation job to pick Smith for the return.

 

I don't have a big issue with Overbay, I just thought it weird to keep him over Francisco when you look at spring training performances. Why sign Francisco, as a $350,000 insurance policy, when he definitely was not going to make the team if Melvin could find anybody that owned a 1B glove?

[FVBrewerFan]

Will Smith says hello

KRod says hello

Zach Duke of all people says hello

Carlos Gomez and Jonathan Lucroy's contracts say hello

 

Think I heard Garza say hello also.

[jjfanec]

For as much bad luck as the Brewers had last year, they are having that much good luck this year. Injuries have been pretty minimal and outside of 1B and Segura the lineup has been hitting pretty consistently well. The bullpen has been fantastic and the rotation has been solid. The only things I think we can really give Doug credit for this year is giving Scooter a chance and not selling the farm for a replacement level first basemen.

 

Not trying to pile on but really?

 

Things that just dont ring true to me?

1. They have been lucky this year. Injuries to their closer and a very versatile relief man. Ramirez missed significant time forcing the team to start Reynolds at 3rd and Overbay at 1st. Braun has missed time but not a ton. Also guys hitting as well as you would expect and pitching well is not luck. It is a well put together team

2. Everyone outside of Segura and 1st hitting isnt fully true. At 3rd Ramizez has missed almost 1/3 of the games and so we were not getting production out of either of the corner spots. Also Khris Davis was brutal for the first month.

3. The bullpen being fantastic and the rotation being solid is a credit to Melvin. He traded for Smith, resigned KRod, signed Lohse and Garza.

4. How about great deals for Gomez and Lucroy?

5. How about not just releasing Weeks when some here were calling for that?

6. How about giving a long leash to guys like Davis and Segura trusting the young guys to turn it around?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Think I heard Garza say hello also.

 

not sure if that's meant to be a plus or minus on this roster, since Garza's been really good of late. I have doubts on if he'll produce over his entire contract, but frankly the overall #'s he's put up in 2014 thus far would be the market rate for a #2-#4 starting pitcher, which is what his contract basically is.

 

not giving up a draft pick for signing him is a plus, too.

[Thurston Fluff]

Things that just dont ring true to me?

1. They have been lucky this year. Injuries to their closer and a very versatile relief man. Ramirez missed significant time forcing the team to start Reynolds at 3rd and Overbay at 1st. Braun has missed time but not a ton. Also guys hitting as well as you would expect and pitching well is not luck. It is a well put together team.

 

Every team has injuries. The rate we have suffered this season isn't bad at all. Especially if you compare them to the Cards or Reds. That said, the relative lack of injuries compared to us helped both those teams last season so I'm not apologizing for our relative health this season.

 

3. The bullpen being fantastic and the rotation being solid is a credit to Melvin. He traded for Smith, resigned KRod, signed Lohse and Garza.

 

Totally not selling those deals short but bullpens are such a crap shoot it's hard for me to give too much credit since I never gave him much blame when they sucked. I will say I like Melvin's approach to filling out a bullpen.

 

I have always been a Melvin fan. I am not trying to bash him. Just like to be consistent with the times I defended him saying those things were either out of his control (injuries) or a notoriously volatile area for every team (bullpens.)

[lcbj68c]

Sometimes a signing is more significant than just the numbers a player produces over the term of the contract, as evidenced in the story from Tracy Ringolsby:

 

"The Brewers are legitimate contenders, writes MLB.com’s Tracy Ringolsby, and their confidence was bolstered by the offseason free agent signing of Matt Garza. “When we signed Garza, I think that’s when we started to feel something could happen,” Jonathan Lucroy told Ringolsby. Added Ryan Braun, “It showed the front office and ownership felt we were a good team.“"

 

Even if Garza puts up pedestrian numbers, it meant something to other men in that clubhouse and their performance due to that subsequent attitude can't be measured, but certainly has value.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not to mention it created even more pitching depth in the organization. Without that move, Thornburg was probably your #5 SP, and he's obviously already been bitten by the injury bug. Then you're looking at Nelson up as the 5th SP, which is fine, but then if he gets hurt you'd be down to Fiers &/or worse players to step in.

 

I know many posters here have been frustrated with Garza so far, but in watching him to this point in the season I feel like he's been a bit unlucky... or at least he has looked like his normal self to me. I think he has pitched well overall, & his overall numbers are finally starting to match up with that.

 

In terms of roster planning, adding Garza gives Doug & Co. so much more flexibility with guys like Gallardo & Lohse nearing the ends of their deals (& Estrada nearing the end of his arbitration seasons). I felt at the time & still feel that the Garza acquisition had an extremely important domino effect on the pitching depth throughout the entire organization.

[fondybrewfan]

I will be shocked if Melvin stands pat at the trading deadline this year. When he knows he has a good time and a window to complete he really goes for broke. I have always been a Doug Melvin apologist; I will be curious to see if he finds a 1st basemen to replace our crapfest and who he finds to help out the bullpen.

 

1st base does seem to be the 1 glaring mistake on his resume right now; but he has made many more right moves than wrong ones it seems.

[jjfanec]

Things that just dont ring true to me?

1. They have been lucky this year. Injuries to their closer and a very versatile relief man. Ramirez missed significant time forcing the team to start Reynolds at 3rd and Overbay at 1st. Braun has missed time but not a ton. Also guys hitting as well as you would expect and pitching well is not luck. It is a well put together team.

 

Every team has injuries. The rate we have suffered this season isn't bad at all. Especially if you compare them to the Cards or Reds. That said, the relative lack of injuries compared to us helped both those teams last season so I'm not apologizing for our relative health this season.

 

3. The bullpen being fantastic and the rotation being solid is a credit to Melvin. He traded for Smith, resigned KRod, signed Lohse and Garza.

 

Totally not selling those deals short but bullpens are such a crap shoot it's hard for me to give too much credit since I never gave him much blame when they sucked. I will say I like Melvin's approach to filling out a bullpen.

 

I have always been a Melvin fan. I am not trying to bash him. Just like to be consistent with the times I defended him saying those things were either out of his control (injuries) or a notoriously volatile area for every team (bullpens.)

 

Oh you are obviously right that we havent had the injury issues of some I was just pointing out we have had some injuries to key guys like Ramirez and Henderson who was supposed to be a key guy.

 

I give Melvin credit on the bullpen because our closer went down before the start of the season, Thornburg has missed a lot of time, Kintzler missed time and Gorzelanny has missed a bunch of time as well. In the midst of all that the bullpen has still been very good because moves he made turned out well.

[adambr2]

I don't recall, did we make any deadline moves in 2011? Hairston?

[Baldkin]

I don't recall, did we make any deadline moves in 2011? Hairston?

 

Hairston and K-Rod were both traded for in July.