2014 Early Bullpen Usage: Overworked?

[ReverendBrewmeister]

Mike Axisa's analysis article on CBSSports.com talks about the early overusage of the bullpen:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24535923/overworked-bullpen-an-early-concern-for-the-brewers

 

From the article:

Seeing it laid out in a table like that really drives home how much these guys have been used. K-Rod has pitched each of the last four days and five of the last six. Thornburg has pitched five times in the last seven days while Smith, Jim Henderson and Zach Duke have pitched four times in the last seven days. That's an awful lot of work, especially this early in the season....

 

Milwaukee has gotten off to an excellent start this year and the shutdown bullpen has been a big reason why. This kind of workload is not something the relievers can sustain all year -- I suppose they could, but that would make them an extreme outlier these days -- and if Roenicke doesn't start to scale back on his bullpen usage soon, these guys are going to burn out later in the season. A team with postseason aspirations doesn't want to fall short of October because their relievers are out of gas in September.

 

No one can complain with the results of the bullpen's work in 2014. 8 extra innings due to the APR 20 game in Pittsburgh also inflates the numbers a little. Perhaps having the rotating Wooten-Figaro combination between the majors and AAA will help with the strain of the workload. But the effect of keeping Wang on the 25-man roster may play a factor later in the year, if he is not actually used from the bullpen.

[Warning Track Power]

I have a HUGE fear about this as well.

 

Fortunately, it appears that the pen may actually be rather deep this year as Gorzelanny and Kintzler are currently on the DL and should ease some strain on Thornburg, Smith, Henderson and Rodriguez upon their return. Unfortunately, the combination of Weeks, Overbay and Wang really does hurt us this season. I wish they could go with a shorter bench i.e. replace Weeks and Overbay with a Taylor Green-type who can back up 1B, 2B & 3B, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

The bullpen looks 10 deep at this time, assuming the DL guys come back ok:

1. Rodriguez

2. Henderson

3. Smith

4. Thornburg

5. Kintzler/Wooten/Figaro

6. Gorzelanny/Duke

7. Wang

[brwrsfan]

At some point, they're going to have to either use Wang more often, even just to face a lefty occasionally, or get rid of him. That type of usage just simply can't be sustained.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It's a concern, but I think the Brewers are well-positioned to keep key bullpen arms fresh if they're willing to shuttle relievers back and forth between Milwaukee and Nashville/Huntsville repeatedly. I like the early season moves around Kintzler's DL stint and Wooten/Figaro looking like they're going to be moved between Nashville and Milwaukee when the Brewers need 'em. I also like the idea of using Overbay's or Weeks' roster spot for an extra reliever to spell the key guys, particularly once Gorzelanny's back. If they really need to you can replace Overbay and Weeks with Gorzelanny/reliever and Morris/Green, then use Bianchi as a backup 2B option to go along with SS and 3rd.

[torts]

sooner or later the brewers will start losing games and that'll give them the opportunity to use Wang. they'll have those rough patches sooner or later, and knowing the brewers history with the month of may, it may be sooner rather than later.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Ron would just stop treating Wang like some 12 year old who might have his feelings hurt if he gives up a run this wouldn't be such a problem.

[MadScientist]

The chart and numbers are skewed by having one game require 8 innings from the pen, because it went 14. The Brewers are generally getting 6+ innings out of their starters. Not great, but solid. They could use an 8-9 inning outing tonight just to balance things.

 

It would be nice to get more out of Wang, but the outing vs the Pirates was not encouraging. He will still need to be in a mop-up role for a while, or come down with 'shoulder tightness'.

[fondybrewfan]

Agreed on Wang. Either start using him more in the 6th and 7th innings or drop him for someone like Wooten or Hand at AAA (Or Figaro since I assume he will go down when Kintzler comes back)

 

Kintzler will add another to go to in close games but we do need more out of the last guy or two in the pen. Plus the starters need to start going a little longer. We need some complete 7 and 8 inning starts. Going 6+ is nice; but a couple near complete games will go a long ways towards helping the pen

 

There have got to be a couple of guys that are off limits tonight; probably not a good thing when Gallardo usually can't make it past 6. I would guess Figaro will pitch at some point tonight

[JackNicholson1974]

This team is better than I thought it was going to be, or at least the pitching is. I think Wang needs to go. The Starters have been pitching very well and the bullpen is STILL taxed. We cant keep a guy on the roster who doesnt pitch.

[danzig6767]

Agreed on Wang. Either start using him more in the 6th and 7th innings or drop him for someone like Wooten or Hand at AAA (Or Figaro since I assume he will go down when Kintzler comes back)

 

Yea, having a guy in the bullpen getting one appearance roughly every ten games is simply going to add appearances on to every other guy in the pen. That can't be sustained for months, much less a whole season.

 

Plus, you have very young pitcher barely ever being used and while bullpen sessions are better than nothing, it's got to be very hard for him to do well in the rare spots he'll get used if his live game action is so limited.

 

So how Wang is being used hurts everyone else in the bullpen and makes it harder on him to be productive.

[JohnBriggs12]

If Ron would just stop treating Wang like some 12 year old who might have his feelings hurt if he gives up a run this wouldn't be such a problem.

 

Wang had never pitched above rookie ball, doesn't know the language and didn't know any of teammates until 2 months ago. It's almost akin to using a 12 year old. I wouldn't keep him myself, but if they do, he'll only pitch in blowout losses and there haven't been too many of those.

 

Roenicke doesn't want to give away games early. He probably figures if one or two wear out, Melvin will go out and find replacements. Getting Kintzler back will help. Gorzelanny should be available sooner or later. Wooten will be on call too.

[dlk9s]

Yeah, I suppose they're overworked, but other than playing Wang or getting rid of him in favor of another pitcher, I don't really have a problem with how the staff has been handled.

[jjfanec]

Quit having a lot of close games, pitch Wang just a little more, and start losing a little more and the bullpen usage will look better.

[Fear The Chorizo]

stop running into so many outs on the bases and generate a few more insurance runs - get Wang into a few 6th/7th inning situations to steal an inning here or there, and use the arms available to you in AAA or even AA when necessary.

 

tonight's an ideal game for Figaro to go multiple innings if necessary to try and get multiple relievers a night off. Or let's have Gallardo and Lohse go 8 and mop up with Wang and Figaro.

[topper09er]

Yovanni Gallardo has thrown 411 pitches in 24.2 innings over the same time period that Tyler Thornburg has thrown 157 pitches in 12 innings and KRod has thrown 170 pitches in 11 innings. Why arent we concerned that Gallardo has been over worked? Why is it less of a problem for Gallardo to throw 100 pitches in 3 hours than it is for KRod to throw 50 pitches in 4 days?

 

This is a non issue in my opinion, when we are leading we should uuse our best relievers. Wang should be used more sure, but people are acting like if Wang would have pitched 8 innings this year it would make some huge difference and even be worth an additional loss?

[Thurston Fluff]

Doesn't this come up every year in the early going? Then, by years end, they all end up within the normal range of innings/games pitched. Starters usually don't go as deep into games early and reliever roles/abilities are getting sorted out so it isn't unusual to have a slightly heavier workload for some of them early.

[adambr2]

stop running into so many outs on the bases and generate a few more insurance runs - get Wang into a few 6th/7th inning situations to steal an inning here or there, and use the arms available to you in AAA or even AA when necessary.

 

tonight's an ideal game for Figaro to go multiple innings if necessary to try and get multiple relievers a night off. Or let's have Gallardo and Lohse go 8 and mop up with Wang and Figaro.

 

Bingo.

 

You'll play in a lot of close games when you're always playing for 1 run.

[SRB]

The Brewers bullpen has pitched 60.0 IP over 25 games. That's good for 18th in the major leagues...

 

They've had a rough week, but I really don't see how this is cause for concern. The starting pitching has been fantastic, so it's no surprise that the bullpen had had a below-average workload even with last night's extended game.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Context should matter a lot here. This is a team coming to the end of a 16-game stretch. A lot of those games have been close, so what's a manager to do? Getting wins is just as important in April as it is in September.

 

Eventually, this workload is going to have to even out, but it can't be a huge concern right now.

[liveforoctober]

The biggest factor, I think, as others have pointed out is the fact that the Brewers have won a LOT of close games and so their best relievers have been used. A simple blowout win or loss every now and then (which is normal) will help when Figaro and Wang can pitch the final 3 innings and save everyone else.

 

I'll only be concerned if the types of games the Brewers win continue to only be close and we continue at this winning percentage pace. The bullpen will be fine if the types of games we play return to the norm rather than us winning EVERYTHING and everything close.

[Oxy]

The biggest factor, I think, as others have pointed out is the fact that the Brewers have won a LOT of close games and so their best relievers have been used. A simple blowout win or loss every now and then (which is normal) will help when Figaro and Wang can pitch the final 3 innings and save everyone else.

 

I'll only be concerned if the types of games the Brewers win continue to only be close and we continue at this winning percentage pace. The bullpen will be fine if the types of games we play return to the norm rather than us winning EVERYTHING and everything close.

 

I think I'd be a lot more "elated" than "concerned" if we keep winning EVERTYHING and everything close. If we start losing everything and everything close, then I'll be concerned. Close games mean out good pitchers pitch. I guess we'll use Thornburg, Henderson and K-Rod a lot more if we are ahead. So that is where you are coming from. Still, The benefits of winning exponentially outweigh any workload issue.

[liveforoctober]

The biggest factor, I think, as others have pointed out is the fact that the Brewers have won a LOT of close games and so their best relievers have been used. A simple blowout win or loss every now and then (which is normal) will help when Figaro and Wang can pitch the final 3 innings and save everyone else.

 

I'll only be concerned if the types of games the Brewers win continue to only be close and we continue at this winning percentage pace. The bullpen will be fine if the types of games we play return to the norm rather than us winning EVERYTHING and everything close.

 

I think I'd be a lot more "elated" than "concerned" if we keep winning EVERTYHING and everything close. If we start losing everything and everything close, then I'll be concerned. Close games mean out good pitchers pitch. I guess we'll use Thornburg, Henderson and K-Rod a lot more if we are ahead. So that is where you are coming from. Still, The benefits of winning exponentially outweigh any workload issue.

 

Oh absolutely. I'm just saying if the Brewers keep winning everything this same way (which is an amazing thing) ... I will then be concerned about innings and usage etc. I very much prefer to win a bunch of games and be concerned about overworking guys than losing our fair share and having no usage issues.

[SoupTown]

The story and comments are a beat up. I was waiting to hear it. And now I have. But I do note the bullpen must be managed. But has not that been the case for the last 100 years.

 

So...

 

1) RRR has stated they have a shuttle in place with AAA; so, in fact, our bullpen is 1 or 2 more players deeper

2) If our current games will be an indication of the year... lots of close games because that is how we want it (play for 1 run), you might as well jettison Weeks and have another reliever

[dmanloo]

Yovanni Gallardo has thrown 411 pitches in 24.2 innings over the same time period that Tyler Thornburg has thrown 157 pitches in 12 innings and KRod has thrown 170 pitches in 11 innings. Why arent we concerned that Gallardo has been over worked? Why is it less of a problem for Gallardo to throw 100 pitches in 3 hours than it is for KRod to throw 50 pitches in 4 days?

 

It's because throwing multiple days is much tougher on the arm than throwing many pitches in one day.

 

Think of it like gas mileage. You have two cars of the same model with the same amount of gas. You're probably going to travel more miles driving on a highway than you would driving on city street with stop lights, even if the speed limits were the exact same for both.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yovanni Gallardo has thrown 411 pitches in 24.2 innings over the same time period that Tyler Thornburg has thrown 157 pitches in 12 innings and KRod has thrown 170 pitches in 11 innings. Why arent we concerned that Gallardo has been over worked? Why is it less of a problem for Gallardo to throw 100 pitches in 3 hours than it is for KRod to throw 50 pitches in 4 days?

 

It's because throwing multiple days is much tougher on the arm than throwing many pitches in one day.

 

Think of it like gas mileage. You have two cars of the same model with the same amount of gas. You're probably going to travel more miles driving on a highway than you would driving on city street with stop lights, even if the speed limits were the exact same for both.

 

I'm more concerned about Thornburg and Smith than K-Rod who's been through the grinder before. They really need a healthy Kintzler back to take some of the load.