When is it Time to Give Ron Roenicke His Due?

[Warning Track Power]

While I certainly have had my complaints about Ron Roenicke and his managing style, I have to give the man a lot of credit for what he has managed to do over the second half of last season and the first 20 games of this season.

 

After the disastrous May, the Brewers had a record of 32-49 after 81 games last season. They finished the second half of last year with a record of 42-39, with a ton of starts being given to Scooter, Davis, Schafer, Betancourt, Maldonado, Halton and Bianchi. With Braun's suspension, Weeks having season ending surgery, Hart out for the entire season and Ramirez in and out of the lineup, a record close to .500 while allowing the aforementioned Brewers to get their first whiffs of the Majors was an accomplishment.

 

Fast forward to 2014 where the Brewers have added Braun and Ramirez back to the lineup and added Garza and Reynolds from FA, the Brewers are off to the 15-5 start, brining the Crew's record to 57-44 over the past 101 games. Moreover, they have reshuffled the deck in the bullpen with K-Rod back into the closer role, Henderson working through his issues, Smith and Thornburg being new additions...

 

I just have to say that Roenicke has done a fantastic job navigating through all the issues this team has endured over the past 12 months. Does that mean we won't go through some down periods this season? No. Does this mean that he won't drive me nuts sometimes? No. It just means that given the circumstances surrounding this team with Braun; that the Brewers currently have 2 relatively unheralded prospects starting at 2B and LF who are developing; that the Brewers are developing Thornburg into what appears to be a bullpen ace...and numerous other things, that I think we should take a step back and give Roenicke some credit.

[pacopete4]

Great post! And as we give credit to RR, we must also praise Melvin because we seem to be finding "diamond in the rough" type guys, at least that's what the baseball geniuses tell us anyways.

 

He may not be the style of baseball you like but whatever he is doing, he is doing it successfully. You are only as good as your players has some merit to it but managers and coaches to have a lot of input towards a team as well.

[chadomac]

A thread to praise a manager? Wow. Never seen this before.

 

I'm of the belief that a manager doesn't matter all that much, but I will say it's been great seeing that Roenicke is definitely treating every single game as if it's important early-on. I don't know if I would've taken Henderson's job based on his spring training, but he's being proactive and trying to win early at all costs. I like that. It's about time the Brewers had a nice start.

 

He is driving me crazy with the amount of stealing/outs on the bases so far, even though I know a lot of those probably aren't his fault. Other than that, I have no major beef.

[fondybrewfan]

This thread probably isn't a good idea. I like him personally but there are plenty of people here that don't. Could get ugly.

 

On stupid plays / decisions it always comes down to two things 1. The players executed poorly or 2. the Manager was stupid for doing it.

 

All managers have their faults; the managers of the teams we root for naturally seem worse then other teams managers simply because we witness more of the negative things.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

RRR is not perfect and many (including me) have been critical of his over-managing in the past. A couple things do stick out in how well he's done post-the 2011 run.

 

1) Keeping the morale of the team up through the Braun stuff and last year's implosion. The team seems to have a decent vibe (winning will do that) and his demeanor plays a role in that.

 

2) Moving Henderson down in the 'pen for K-Rod. This is a move he doesn't make a couple years ago. It was obvious Henderson was scuffling. Henderson wasn't happy about the move but he did what was best for the team and moved him into lower leverage situations while he figured it out. As his velocity returns, my guess is he'll be fine. He's getting it back without costing us games. Kudos to RRR for being proactive.

[pacopete4]

Good point. We also seem to only mention negative things that happen instead of discussion both positive and negative. And there are some that just won't give credit where it is due because they somehow thing they are smarter than a man who has been around major league baseball for 40 years playing and coaching.

[Taylor Blue]

I was pleasantly surprised to see Segura moved down in the lineup last night. It seems like RR normally waits way too long to adjust the lineup when needed. While it is a "small sample size," I think that move definitely needed to be made. I fully expect Segura will come around, but for the time being, he should not be our 2 hitter.

 

In regards to the aggressiveness on the base paths, I am all for it, but as most would agree, it's getting a little out of hand now and we need to be smarter out there. RR needs to get through to the guys that dumb outs on the base paths are unacceptable.

[jjfanec]

I was going to post a similar thread for Melvin but I figured it would go south pretty quick.

 

RR has his issues like his aggressive nature leading to the team making stupid outs on the base paths but overall I have liked him. I have really liked his handling of the bullpen this year and not being afraid to sit a guy who is struggling

[thebruce44]

I think he has learned a lot since his disasterous 2011. I still don't care for his logic in general, but he seems well liked by his players at this point.

 

In terms of giving him his due, I think that should be done somewhat independent of the team's record. He hasn't seemed to cost us any games so far this year. I'll take it after what I saw his first couple of years.

[yoshii8]

He's starting to grow on me a little bit. I've always liked his attitude and rapport w/ the players, but questioned a lot of his baseball decisions. I think he's been better lately.

[liveforoctober]

My personal opinion is that yes, I don't agree with every decision he makes on a situation to situation basis ... however, I am convinced that his players like him and they play hard for him, and that alone has probably won us more games that we can account for. He seems to have his entire team on a green light whether it is base running, bunting, etc and that allows a free spirit like Gomez and the more strategist types like Braun and Lucroy to be creative and involved on the basepaths and in the box.. maybe even more so than if they only took orders from the bench. Yes, this freedom has and will cost us runs and potentially games at some point ... but I think the positive affect on camaraderie and confidence is a big reason why players have been able to overachieve.

[logan82]

I give him some credit for moving Segura down the order already and switching closers before it became a problem.

 

I will never forgive him for how he used Kotsay or Yuni. He still plays to much small ball and let's his players be too aggressive on the base paths.

 

The team is getting good pitching and I would but the credit for the winning and losing there. If the pitching drops off the team will lose more and that isn't the manager's fault.

[jerichoholicninja]

Good for him for being proactive with Henderson. Good for him for going with Gennett over Weeks. Good for him for sticking with Reynolds instead of platooning with Overbay. Someone, somewhere is encouraging him to do some things differently but his "style" still leads to way too many outs on the bases.

 

If we're talking about the team's current record, it has little to do with him. The starting pitching has been tremendous and the bullpen fantastic. The offense has been great too. None of that has to do with Ron.

[Nottso]

I would have to think that the aggressive base running, while at times costing runs and/or outs, is firmly entrenched in the heads of opposing managers, pitchers, catchers and infielders. That would be a good thing, right?

[Thurston Fluff]

I know Gomez gave him a lot of credit for letting him be him. He was the guy who let Gomez swing away instead of trying to take pitches and slap singles around so he could get on base. I think the thing RRR does best is understand just because a certain player has a certain skill set he may not have the mental makeup to maximize that skill set. Theoretically Gomez might be better if he did take more pitches and try to raise his OBP at the cost of SLG but in reality that didn't work. Gomez just isn't mentally built that way.

I think overall our team is full of aggressive players. So perhaps some of the stupid things have to be lived with to make sure they play they way they perform best. Even if the numbers tell you it is wrong the numbers don't tell you what effect following the numbers has on the individual player. I think RRR believes in managing personalities instead of numbers. I happen to agree.

[dlk9s]

I know we all have a problem with Roenicke's obsession with bunting and the team's poor base running decisions, but I do agree he has done some things well.

 

It seems to me that Roenicke, despite the brawl the other day, has a pretty good calming influence on the team. The clubhouse seems solid and the guys look like they get along. You don't see all sorts of strife like you see on other teams. He also has done a good job at handling the pitching staff and has gotten much better at setting lineups / making adjustments.

[igor67]

I don't think it is an either or proposition when it comes to managing purely numbers vs. people. However I think it is the case that many strategies and moves involve a tradeoff between the 2. In general the tradeoff nature of most decisions is easily forgotten. Moving Segura in the line-up is a good example. Doing that sooner can easily make some players jumpy and nervous, but on the plus side is the benefit of the slightly better line-up. Regardless if one looks solely at outcomes it will always be possible to find examples of a strategy working and of it failing.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

RRR makes too many boneheaded decisions. He's over aggressive on the bases when he shouldn't. He overuses certain players in the pen. I like his aggressive style, I just think he overdoes it a bit. There's no reason to have everyone and their mother try to steal a base when Braun or Gomez are batting. I'd prefer if he saved the aggression for when the weaker hitters are at the plate. Right now it makes sense to steal 2nd whenever Segura is batting. Unfortunately Segura right now is more likely to ground into a double play than hit one into the gap. That's a good movement to be aggressive and try to take away the double play.

 

I like bunting to bring in runs, I just don't like it when he has bad bunters do it. We all know Maldonado can't bunt, yet RRR has had him do it quite a few times. I'm also worried that K-Rod and Thornburg are going to be gassed by September. Those 2 have already pitched a boatload of innings. It would be nice if he would spread around the bullpen duties equally. The A's are doing an excellent job of spreading the workload in the pen. RRR should copy them.

 

I like his aggressive approach to the game in theory, but I don't agree with most of his decisions. He's not the worst manager in baseball, but he's near the bottom in my opinion. Some guys have great in-game awareness and others don't. I think RRR is limited when it comes to making in-game adjustments. I will praise him for making sure that the young guys got to play last year. I think getting some action last year is helping Scooter a lot this year. I think his demeanor is good for the clubhouse as well. It seems like he has control over the players.

[adambr2]

He still drives me nuts. I hate watching him give away outs. That said, I've probably underestimated the maybe less obvious positive that he brings.

 

Not to defend RR further but I disagree with those who have said Maldonado is a bad bunter. I don't have the stats in front of me but as far as I can recall he's been a successful bunter on numerous occasions and is even always a surprise threat to bunt for a hit.

[reillymcshane]

I think RRR gets the most points on simply managing the people and personalities on the club. Everyone seems to enjoy working for the guy, and (in general), they seem to respect him.

 

My problems start with his obsession with bunting. We wastes so many outs it kills me. Bunting has its place, but I think we over do it.

 

Second, he has tried to instill an aggressiveness in the team that I think hurts us more than not. We make too many stupid plays on the base paths and give away too many outs. This might be more my perception than reality. It's not something I can sit down and quantify. It's just my impression.

 

Third, I'm not thrilled with his bullpen management at times - early on he seemed obsessed with 'roles' (remember Kameron Loe being our '8th inning guy' - that worked well). I think he's gotten better - being a little more flexible over time. Having better players certainly has helped.

 

Next, I'm not always happy with the way he acts towards younger players. He'll say things like, "I didn't want to use XYZ relief pitcher because he's a young guy and I don't want to put him in a tough situation." Honestly, I appreciate the idea of putting guys in a position to succeed. But it seems like he over does it. These aren't babies. They're professionals - even if they are rookies. I'm sure those guys are drooling at the chance to have meaningful playing time - it's not like they are peeing their pants at the thought of getting to pinch hit or throw an inning of relief during a close game.

 

Finally, the obsession with trotting out veterans who are playing badly drives me nuts. How long did it take for Casey McGehee to get benched back in 2011? Last September, why was Yuni starting at 1B while Halton was on the bench? I'm not saying Halton was any great shakes, but what's the point? Did anyone see a future for Yuni in Milwaukee?

 

I should point out that while I have issues with RRR, all these don't make him a horrible manager. Every manager seems to have his frustrating tendencies. But it doesn't make him anything special either. I think his ability to create a strong clubhouse environment is a plus for a team like Milwaukee. The players like to play for him, and respect him - all nice traits.

[danzig6767]

I know we all have a problem with Roenicke's obsession with bunting and the team's poor base running decisions, but I do agree he has done some things well.

 

It seems to me that Roenicke, despite the brawl the other day, has a pretty good calming influence on the team. The clubhouse seems solid and the guys look like they get along. You don't see all sorts of strife like you see on other teams. He also has done a good job at handling the pitching staff and has gotten much better at setting lineups / making adjustments.

The excessive bunting is annoying to me, but sometimes i do think it's somewhat of a close call. The incredible number of outs on the bases though has to be addressed by Roenicke. It's unacceptable, especially on a team who rarely ever walks and thus carries a poor OBP.

[Warning Track Power]

How much credit can we give to RR and his staff for the development of Lucroy, Peralta, Thornburg, Estrada and hopefully Gennett and Davis? I know that Peralta was once a top 100 prospect, but the others were never considered to be the can't miss prospects that Braun, Fielder, Hardy, Hart & Weeks were. It just seems like either those prospects were completely missed by the scouts, or RR and the staff has really done wonders to help maximize the talents that they have.

[FVBrewerFan]

It would have been very easy for RR or any Manager to give Henderson the closing role. He performed well in that role last year, yea his velocity is down, but we'll give him the job again. 90% of the time, that would have happened. So I give him a lot of credit for going with KRod.

 

Same things with Weeks and Overbay. He did not go to a straight platoon with Reynolds/Overbay, instead he's given Reynolds most of the starts. Weeks ,with what he's making, plus being a veterran, etc. RR could have easily justified giving him more starts. But no, he has used the right players. Just like moving Segura down. He didn't wait 4 months to do it, it took 3 weeks.

 

He has managed the pitching staff very well. I could quibble with a decision here and there, but generally speaking he has left the starters in the correct amount, and has used the pen wisely. All of these things are very refreshing, because I don't think he would have done any of these things in the past. I always give credit to people who learn from their mistakes. Play the best players, put them in the best position to be successful. Common sense, but that hasb't been the case in past seasons.

 

As far as the aggresiveness goes, Topper has some nice stats in the IGT from yesterday. The Brewers are actually average in number of "outs on the basepaths." Yet they are at or near the top in taking extra bases per oppportunity. This tells me the aggressiveness IS paying off. RR can't control everything, like Davis running through a stop sign.

 

No doubt he'll do something that will fire my rockets, the season is still early. But so far, I'm a fan. And I wouldn't have said that any other year he's been Manager here.

[Oxy]

I love everything about RR, except his use of Kotsay in the playoffs and the whole Yuni thing too. I'm one of the few who loves the aggressive nature on the basepaths--at least when the outs are made at the right time, i.e. when there are 2 outs, DON'T try to take 3rd, yet be super aggressive when heading home. Less than 2 outs, be aggressive in getting to 3rd base, yet conservative when going home. Scouting reports on the defense will vary this a bet too. Love making a weak defense make a play.

[DoubleSwitch]

When is it time to give Marcus Hanel his due?