Was Suppan the wrong choice?

[gregmag]

Now if you thought he was going to come in here and be a CY young candidate than that is misguided on your behalf.

 

Since you've decided to pronounce people "misguided," could you please point out exactly who in this discussion said they expected Suppan to be a Cy Young candidate? If you can't come up with any examples -- and I don't recall any -- then what the heck are you talking about?

 

I think the point a lot of people are making is that a six-inning mediocre pitcher just possibly may not be worth $12 million a year.

 

Greg.

[Big Reed]

I think the problem is that most fans don't believe a mediocre 6 innings pitcher is worth $12 million a year. but the reality is that's exactly what mediocre 6 innings pitchers command on the free agent market.

 

if you want a good pitcher, look at the contracts Zito, Pettite, Schmidt and Clemens received. None of those four pitchers has come close to truly earning the money they are being paid. But, that was the going rate.

 

I was shocked to see the 2007 Camry costing $30,000. I said to myself, a Camry shouldn't cost $30,000. So, do I look for a mediocre GM or Ford product that will only give me 4-5 innings per tank of gas and sometimes just shut down for no reason? or do I spend the going rate for what is a quality yet not really top of the line car? I' m talking Camry here , not Lexus. is a Camry really worth $30,000? Is a 2800 sq foot house really worth $280,000? That's what my new house is going to cost me to build. Some people will say I got a steal. Others won't believe I was willing to pay that much for just a house. I could have gotten a national home for a lot less.

 

I think the brewers knew exactly what they were getting in Suppan. Did they overpay? probably so. but they were willing to do so. i think some doubters should look back in history and review the contracts the brewers gave to Sal Bando and Don Sutton. Sutton was a very expensive addition. but he paid dividends. I think we'll know Suppon's real value in November.

[endaround]

Or you can compare him to the deals signed by Oswalt and Buerhle and say, boy did they overpay for Suppan.

[rluzinski]

Perhaps, it's never smart to sign a free agent starting pitcher to a long term deal, especially when he's on the wrong side of 30?

[TooLiveBrew]

Oswalt was signed before the 2007 offseason spending explosion. Buerhle gave his ChiSox a significant hometown discount. Bad examples, IMO. Perhaps point towards Gil Meche or Ted Lilly?

[TheCouga23]

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Perhaps, it's never smart to sign a free agent starting pitcher to a long term deal, especially when he's on the wrong side of 30?

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I tend to look at it as a 4 year insurance policy on Sheets/Gallardo/Capuano/Bush/Villanueva. If either of those guys get injured, we have Suppan to fill in who will give you close to league average injury relief. Chances are, one of those five will be injured at some point in the next 4 years (1.5 for Sheets if we don't extend him). Since we are paying so little for everyone else, suddenly Suppan's contract doesn't look so expensive. Divvy up his money, and that's like adding $2-3 million on to the salaries of those five and saying, "If they get injured, it's really not that much of a problem."

 

In this respect, it is a very good signing.

[FVBrewerFan]

It's impossible to say whther Suppan was the right choice after 1/2 year. He has 3 1/2 years left on his contract! The way salaries are spiraling upwards, Suppan may look like a steal 1-2 years from now. Plus, as mentioned earlier, we'll see what he gives this team in September and October.

[Ennder]

We had Sheets who is less than a year from an injury, Capuano who has a history of arm problems, Vargas who hasn't had a good year in the majors yet, 2 rookies who may or may not be good starters this season. I think signing Suppan was a very good thing to give us stability in the rotation. I still think we paid a good $5-10M too much but oh well, its not my money.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Its never smart for a small market team with a limited payroll to pay big money for mediocrity and Suppan is the definition of mediocre.

[TooLiveBrew]

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We had Sheets who is less than a year from an injury

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*sigh*

[rluzinski]

By no means is Suppan not a valuable pitcher but he was over payed, in comparison to his value, as pretty much all free agents are (especially pitchers). And the "it's not my money" works just fine, provided the funds aren't capped when someone with a lot more value could be had.

[Ennder]

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*sigh*

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Sigh what? Its been less than a year since he got hurt its the simple truth. I'm willing to bet if Sheets is healthy all of 2006 we aren't as eager to sign Suppan in 2007.

[logan82]

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By no means is Suppan not a valuable pitcher but he was over payed, in comparison to his value, as pretty much all free agents are (especially pitchers).

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My feelings exactly. I wouldn't say don't sign any free agents, but almost. The best deals in terms of contracts are deals like the ones to Sheets and Hall. Buying out the arbitration years plus a couple free agent years at slightly less than free agent market value is the best way to go. That and you get a player who is still in his prime compared to a players who is heading into his decline especially with a longer contract. I guess I don't dislike the Suppan contract specifically. I have a general dislike of signing free agents.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm just tired of the pessimism on Sheets, Ennder. That's it. I know you probably regard it as realism, but this dead horse has been beaten so many times I think we probably both know what the opposing argument(s) will be. Don't take it personally, but it just gets old to read about how Ben Sheets is guaranteed another injury sometime in the near future.

 

He's had a couple arm-ish injuries, which most pitchers encounter, and a fluky inner-ear disorder. You just don't see the same criticism/pessimism of other pitchers on this squad. I'd be willing to bet that most of our arms have been injured, many more than once, but how often do you see the same quips applied to Cappy or anyone else?

 

With Tomo Ohka not great last year either, I disagree that we'd be less excited to sign Soup had Benny been full-force in '06, but I guess we'll never know.

[Ennder]

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Don't take it personally, but it just gets old to read about how Ben Sheets is guaranteed another injury sometime in the near future.

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Thats not what I said, I said he had been injured less than a year before they signed Suppan. They had to be thinking of that injury at least a little bit when they signed Suppan.

 

I don't personally think he's any more likely to get hurt than Capuano or the young guys myself. Bush and Suppan strike me as more durable since they don't throw quite as hard and have pretty nice deliveries.

[1992casey]

Relying on memory, my gut feeling, and the points of view that Ennder usually expresses, I'm going to guess that he's generally been a Sheets supporter. It seems to me that he tossed in Sheets' health as one of several reasons he supported the Suppan signing. Note that he also tossed in Cappy's heath; that's something we hadn't discussed very often until his recent injury.

 

Had he written a Sheets-centric rant, I'd have sighed, too. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for clarifying, Ennder. I took your post to mean he's less than a year away from another injury, but now see what you meant. Guess I need to pay better attention to those who vocally support players! Sorry!

[Never Outhustled]

Suppan off to a good start in the 2nd half. It was almost predictable. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Ennder]

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Thanks for clarifying, Ennder. I took your post to mean he's less than a year away from another injury, but now see what you meant. Guess I need to pay better attention to those who vocally support players! Sorry!

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Not your fault, I worded it kind of weird I think.

[Bucky Rules]

Personally, I don't have a huge problem with the signing. He has not pitched well since May 1 (with the exception of his last start), but there's time to get that straightened out.

 

The fact is, the only way to judge the signing is to measure it's opportunity cost. Who are we going to lose in the next couple of years because we spent the 8-figures on Suppan? If the answer is "nobody", then I have no issues with the signing whatsoever. The world needs mediocre innings-eaters, too. And he's even better than that, if he gets back to anywhere near where he's been since he joined the NL.