Carlos Gomez - Passion or Antics?

[Thurston Fluff]

I wonder what Cole said to Tabita(I think it was him) when he did virtually the same thing on Thursday to Wang as Gomez did on Sunday. I'm sure when Tabita got back to the dugout Cole was right there saying "dude, that was a 21 year old rule five pick who never pitched above single A before. You should just put your head down, carefully drop your bat, better yet delicately put it down, and run to second. When you get to second maybe even yell a few words of encouragement to the kid. He's in a tough spot." If not I think we know how much they really care about what Gomez did vs how much they hate the Brewers for what we always do to them on the scoreboard.

[Nottso]

On the audio, before Cole ever gets to Gomez at 3b, I can hear someone (I assume the ump) yelling at Cole "Get back to the mound! Don't come over here!" or words to that effect.

 

Has anyone else caught it?

[jerichoholicninja]

On the audio, before Cole ever gets to Gomez at 3b, I can hear someone (I assume the ump) yelling at Cole "Get back to the mound! Don't come over here!" or words to that effect.

 

Has anyone else caught it?

 

Might have been the ump, he was pointing at Cole or the mound right before everything started.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Some of this 'unwritten rules' pontificating is just guys looking for ways to get into physical altercations with opponents they are frustrated with, I think. Baseball is the one major sport where physical contact with an opponent isn't part of the game. There's a striking trend of people/players who love to spout off about 'unwritten rules' also displaying their meathead, or caveman gene. Oftentimes the same guys who are supposedly stewards of baseball's unwritten rules find themselves repeatedly involved in bench clearing incidents.

 

Players criticizing other players for 'not respecting the game', or 'playing the game the wrong way' is nothing more than veiled animosity intended to make a small-minded person feel better about themselves.

 

I've wondered why the list of unwritten rules has never been written...I think it's because those rules change at the whim of whichever red-assed manager or player wants to cite them in a way that demeans something an opponent did while they were beating them at baseball.

[MJLiverock]

Can anyone remember the last time a Brewer's pitcher went after a hitter for any of this stuff? I ask because I keep reading national reports taking Gomez to task for always starting these things and hinting that it is the Brewers who are bush league for doing this yet I have seen plenty of opposing batters stare, walk slow, bat flip etc. and just can't remember a Brewer pitcher going after them and staring a brawl. I seem to recall Carlos Villanueva maybe getting into it with the Cardinals or something but not much else.

[brwrsfan]

MLB network is saying that the suspensions/fines won't come out until tomorrow, as the umpires are traveling and can't get their reports to MLB executives until tonight.

 

The last one I remember blatantly hitting someone on purpose was McClung hitting Pujols and putting his arms up on the mound as if saying "come on, let's go".

[coolcool]

I've read people complaining that Gomez would've had an inside the park home run had he ran hard out of the box. How long do you think it takes players to reach each base? I timed Gomez rounding 1st at 6.6 sec. Typically it takes a bit over 4 when rounding 1st.

 

Not excusing dogging it out of the box, but the couple seconds extra didn't really even make a difference in this case.

[Warning Track Power]

I know he's only 23 but is it too soon to ask....

 

"How's Geritt Cole going to explain this to his kids?"

[coolcool]

Can anyone remember the last time a Brewer's pitcher went after a hitter for any of this stuff? I ask because I keep reading national reports taking Gomez to task for always starting these things and hinting that it is the Brewers who are bush league for doing this yet I have seen plenty of opposing batters stare, walk slow, bat flip etc. and just can't remember a Brewer pitcher going after them and staring a brawl. I seem to recall Carlos Villanueva maybe getting into it with the Cardinals or something but not much else.

 

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130904&content_id=59601968&vkey=news_pit&c_id=pit

 

Last year vs the Pirates.

 

Was just as stupid.

[brwrsfan]

MLB Now just ran a LONG segment on the whole thing.

 

They all said Cole was clearly out of line. Then they showed THREE different Pirates (Martin, Tabita and McCutchen) doing the EXACT same thing, in the SAME series....on balls that didn't leave the yard. In fact, Martin stood LONGER than Gomez did by quite a noticeable nature. MLB Network guys didn't condone Gomez, but they all said Cole was definitely in the wrong and that the Pirates really had no right to be upset by Gomez based on how their own players reacted and how today's game is played.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I've read people complaining that Gomez would've had an inside the park home run had he ran hard out of the box. How long do you think it takes players to reach each base? I timed Gomez rounding 1st at 6.6 sec. Typically it takes a bit over 4 when rounding 1st.

 

Not excusing dogging it out of the box, but the couple seconds extra didn't really even make a difference in this case.

If he runs hard out of the box he probably can make the turn at third and look rather than dive head first for a close play. If they screw up a throw back into the infield he has a shot to score. That's my only fault with Gomez on the play...he needs to be running hard out of the box. If he improves his chance of scoring from zero to 25%, that's huge.

 

The other unwritten rules garbage is just that. Too much testosterone looking for an outlet. Gomez has always been flashy, but outside of last year against the Braves he's been fairly harmless. I like him because he brings enthusiasm to the game and is a positive guy. He's not looking to to show guys up, he just plays with passion.

[dlk9s]

The narratives in the national media (with some exceptions, certainly) are pretty laughable. Gomez in no way stood at home plate and stared at his shot. He flipped the bat (which I suppose includes standing there for a second) and immediately started trotting to first base. Everyone starts trotting slowly if they either a) think they hit it out or b) think they made an out.

 

Additionally, people are saying that Gomez started swinging his helmet, using it as a weapon. No. He was holding his helmet during the yapping. The one time the helmet was raised up was when the umpire was holding Gomez back and Gomez moved to free himself. He had to lift his arm up to get free of the ump, the arm that happened to be holding the helmet. Once his arm was free, he dropped the helmet and went at it.

 

I do agree that, with the exception of Bryce Harper, the players who get criticized for antics are overwhelmingly Latino. I also don't think that's a coincidence.

 

Should Gomez have just dropped the bat and started running? Yeah, probably, but whatever. Who cares? Should he have not gotten so mad when Cole jawed at him? Certainly. But if Cole doesn't cuss him out and if Snider and company don't come charging out of the dugout, nothing would've happened.

 

Really, Gomez should've done this when Cole yelled at him:

 

http://i.imgur.com/tWp8Z.gif

[JackNicholson1974]

Nice good to hear espn and mlb network recognize pirates hypocrisy.

[dlk9s]

To answer the original question: Gomez is awesome and great for the game.

[TheCrew07]

I'm sorry I just don't get into the "he started it" finger pointing arguments.

 

Players are going to jaw at each other, it happens in every sport, there's simply no justifying what Gomez did. He didn't have to come off the bag, he didn't need to be restrained, he didn't have to throw the first punch... all of those things are completely on him, and in the end he hurts not only himself, but the team.

 

I've said before when discussing Braun's early career HR antics, Morgan a couple of years ago, and now with Gomez that those things don't appeal to me personally, but they don't bother me either. While I'm not going to go out and buy their jerseys I still want them to be productive and successful members of the team I root for. I'm not going to begrudge them being who they are, it's been made pretty clear over the years that many fans like players with those kind of personalities, I can get behind that idea... whatever gives the game meaning to you or rather personalizes the game for you is a good thing. Nor do I care at all about the "unwritten rules" of any sport, I didn't like it Bill Hall would watch a ball hit the wall and barely make into in 2nd for a double either when he could have possibly been standing on 3rd. I just gravitate towards a more "classy" (maybe a poor choice of words but I'm coming up empty) approach, and not in the fake Cardinal classy way either. I just prefer players who hustle and let their play do the talking because they don't leave anything to chance, and that's how I've always approached whatever game I happened to be playing at the time.

 

However it bothers me when players turn simple things like jawing at each other into a scene like Gomez did with the T-Rats a couple of years ago and did again yesterday, it's just completely unnecessary. You aren't more of a man for what happened, you're a putz who hurt your team. So Cole said something... man up and move on, you're standing on 3rd base. I don't see any healthy true emotion or passion in any of what happened at the completion of the play, it was childish and ultimately costly. The end result isn't justified by the means, there's a bit of Star Wars wisdom..."Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?". Cole being a baby didn't justify Carlos escalating the situation, it was an extreme overreaction.

[reillymcshane]

Morosi at Fox Sports basically saying it's ridiculous that baseball has this unwritten 'code' of how to play the game. A code that punishes guys for breaking the 'code'. A code who's main element seems to be supressing all your emotions.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/carlos-gomez-gerrit-cole-altercation-shows-how-baseball-must-evolve-042014

[FVBrewerFan]

Well said, TheCrew. Perfect way to handle that is scoreboard. How sweet is it to win in extra innings, just beat them 6/7 times. Now let them grumble about someone flipping a bat, sounds like a whining baby. But with Gomez starting a brawl, it takes some of that high ground away. Don't get me wrong though, brawl or no brawl I'll take 3/4 on the road any time!

[coolcool]

Morosi at Fox Sports basically saying it's ridiculous that baseball has this unwritten 'code' of how to play the game. A code that punishes guys for breaking the 'code'. A code who's main element seems to be supressing all your emotions.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/carlos-gomez-gerrit-cole-altercation-shows-how-baseball-must-evolve-042014

 

"With his speed, he could have had an inside-the-park homer if he had sprinted out of the box; instead, his potential run was stranded at third base."

 

Again, do people really think Gomez can round each base in 2.5 seconds?

[logan82]

Pretty close. He is faster between bases than he is to first base. It takes a bit to accelerate.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

Of course Gomez is in the wrong here. The proper thing to do after any well struck ball is to first wrap the bat in the finest silk and then place if gently upon the grass area of the first base line. It is then, and only then, that you may proceed to running the bases in a fashion befitting of the guardians of the game like Brian McCann.

[coolcool]

Pretty close. He is faster between bases than he is to first base. It takes a bit to accelerate.

 

I timed him at 13.33 on yesterdays triple, and counted 2 other triples at 11.32 and 11.26. He had an inside the park homerun where he reached home at 14.16 seconds (wow!). But that's still a pace of 3.54 per bag. At the most generous estimate, he wasted 2.5 seconds, which would've been plenty of time to throw him out and start plenty of RRR is too aggressive rants here.

 

While not sprinting out of the box is stupid, I just don't see how he ends up with an inside the park homerun had he came out sprinting. It coud've hurt the Brewers but it didn't. Leaving the bag from an argument is a different story, however.

[SRB]

Look, many of you have already said it. If Gomez (or Plush) was on the Cardinals you would hate him. That pretty much tells you the stuff he's doing is not called for. With all that said, it doesn't bother me that much- at least not yet.

Can only speak for myself, but this is absolutely not true. I have 100% never been annoyed by an opposing player "showing up the pitcher," not in the least. In fact the only times I ever even consciously notice it is when it's a player/team being blatantly hypocritical.

 

The Cardinals are the worst because they act like they are baseball's morality police, not because they show some exuberance. I think McCutchen doing the pistols thing is entertaining, and I absolutely hate the Pirates right now.

[logan82]

Pretty close. He is faster between bases than he is to first base. It takes a bit to accelerate.

 

I timed him at 13.33 on yesterdays triple, and counted 2 other triples at 11.32 and 11.26. He had an inside the park homerun where he reached home at 14.16 seconds (wow!). But that's still a pace of 3.54 per bag. At the most generous estimate, he wasted 2.5 seconds, which would've been plenty of time to throw him out and start plenty of RRR is too aggressive rants here.

 

While not sprinting out of the box is stupid, I just don't see how he ends up with an inside the park homerun had he came out sprinting. It coud've hurt the Brewers but it didn't. Leaving the bag from an argument is a different story, however.

You can't just divide by 4. It takes longer to get to 1st than between the other bases.

[coolcool]

Pretty close. He is faster between bases than he is to first base. It takes a bit to accelerate.

 

I timed him at 13.33 on yesterdays triple, and counted 2 other triples at 11.32 and 11.26. He had an inside the park homerun where he reached home at 14.16 seconds (wow!). But that's still a pace of 3.54 per bag. At the most generous estimate, he wasted 2.5 seconds, which would've been plenty of time to throw him out and start plenty of RRR is too aggressive rants here.

 

While not sprinting out of the box is stupid, I just don't see how he ends up with an inside the park homerun had he came out sprinting. It coud've hurt the Brewers but it didn't. Leaving the bag from an argument is a different story, however.

You can't just divide by 4. It takes longer to get to 1st than between the other bases.

 

That's a good point, but on Gomez's inside the park HR it still took him 3.3 seconds to go from 3rd to home with no hesitation. That's really fast, but it still doesn't account for the time he wasted watching his hit, which took an extra 2 seconds, 2.5 if you're generous. Maybe the need for a relay eliminates that gap, but I still don't think he would've scored.

[areacodes]

MLB Now just ran a LONG segment on the whole thing.

 

They all said Cole was clearly out of line. Then they showed THREE different Pirates (Martin, Tabita and McCutchen) doing the EXACT same thing, in the SAME series....on balls that didn't leave the yard. In fact, Martin stood LONGER than Gomez did by quite a noticeable nature. MLB Network guys didn't condone Gomez, but they all said Cole was definitely in the wrong and that the Pirates really had no right to be upset by Gomez based on how their own players reacted and how today's game is played.

 

I would love for somebody to ask Martin and the rest of the Pirates why when they did it, it was okay but when Gomez did it, it becomes a big deal?