When will Miller Park be outdated?

[crossface21]

In light of the developments with the Bucks and the BMO, was just curious as to what everyone thought the longevity or usefullness of Miller Park will be? The BC was opened in 1988, and here we are just 25 years later and it's outdated to the point that they need a completely new arena. Now, I understand the economics of sports has changed drastically in the last 25 years to the point that you need arenas to bring in tons of cash by itself with all the amenities that can be offered, but how long can Miller Park last before people start saying that it's time to think of replacing it?

 

When thining about it, IMO I think by the time Miller Park was being built it was realized that the stadium was an entertainment venue, not just a place to play baseball, ala County Stadium and I think they've done a fantastic job with MP. But to answer my own question, I'm thinking around 2025-2030 we'll start hearing rumblings.

[owbc]

Never, as long as they keep the facilities up to date.

 

As of right now, Miller Park has everything that a brand new facility like Marlins Park has. This is because the contract with the stadium district allows the sales tax to help pay for the improvements and repairs.

 

The only thing that becomes an issue at some point is that it will need some more significant repairs--likely to the roof, parking lots, and maybe the seating bowl in about 10-15 years. I believe that after the stadium tax is retired, the Brewers may have to fund these improvements--but I'm not sure about that.

 

The BC hasn't received most of those improvements so they have tens of millions worth of maintenance that should have been done already. Not much about the BC has changed since the early 1990s. The footprint of the building is also too small for a renovation--something that is not an issue for Miller Park.

 

The other issue that has spurred new MLB stadiums is location (such as in Atlanta), but that doesn't seem to be an issue for Miller Park.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Mark A wants to build around the stadium hotels and more entertainment etc.. I suspect that will happen in about 5 years when the economy is in the clear. Now's not a good time and they have said this. That will provide additional revenue to make these big repairs. So if you think about it Mark A is just getting started building Miller Park.

 

The roof will be the biggest repair like owbc said, but the Brewers could do so much more to the parking lots. Then the sky is the limit to buying property around miller park to develop into entertainment, and a place for out of town fans to stay. You travel out of the parking lot from the general lot exit and you see all of these businesses that need to be demolished and rebuilt, because they look so old. Lot's of potential there for development and street repairs.

 

They need more beer sponsors, though. The stadium could use better beer. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

Also, anybody know how you can become an investor in the Brewers like a shareholder I have money for it and will have more in the next few years? Just wondering, thanks.

[owbc]

Mark A wants to build around the stadium hotels and more entertainment etc.. I suspect that will happen in about 5 years when the economy is in the clear. Now's not a good time and they have said this. That will provide additional revenue to make these big repairs. So if you think about it Mark A is just getting started building Miller Park.

 

The roof will be the biggest repair like owbc said, but the Brewers could do so much more to the parking lots. Then the sky is the limit to buying property around miller park to develop into entertainment, and a place for out of town fans to stay. You travel out of the parking lot from the general lot exit and you see all of these businesses that need to be demolished and rebuilt, because they look so old. Lot's of potential there for development and street repairs.

 

They need more beer sponsors, though. The stadium could use better beer. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

Wisconsin has that pointless "Miller law" which has squashed microbreweries. As a result, Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

41st St. (Miller Park Way) is full of businesses that did not exist before Miller Park. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the stadium construction. It's surprising that there isn't a hotel yet. Any destruction of parking lots (to be replaced with parking garages) will be highly controversial.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Wisconsin has that pointless "Miller law" which has squashed microbreweries. As a result, Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

Just curious what is the Miller law. Never heard of it and can't find it on google.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Mark A wants to build around the stadium hotels and more entertainment etc.. I suspect that will happen in about 5 years when the economy is in the clear. Now's not a good time and they have said this. That will provide additional revenue to make these big repairs. So if you think about it Mark A is just getting started building Miller Park.

 

The roof will be the biggest repair like owbc said, but the Brewers could do so much more to the parking lots. Then the sky is the limit to buying property around miller park to develop into entertainment, and a place for out of town fans to stay. You travel out of the parking lot from the general lot exit and you see all of these businesses that need to be demolished and rebuilt, because they look so old. Lot's of potential there for development and street repairs.

 

They need more beer sponsors, though. The stadium could use better beer. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

Wisconsin has that pointless "Miller law" which has squashed microbreweries. As a result, Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

41st St. (Miller Park Way) is full of businesses that did not exist before Miller Park. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the stadium construction. It's surprising that there isn't a hotel yet. Any destruction of parking lots (to be replaced with parking garages) will be highly controversial.

 

Awww no wonder.. I'm against parking garages, due to being in favor of tailgating, but I am for permanent outdoor restrooms. Not portables. Those businesses I was talking about directly behind the preferred parking lot need severe street repairs and new buildings rebuilt from scratch. The Brewers own all that land a total of 186 acres. From, what I've read they have no clue what they want to do with all of that land and that's years down the road in a good economy.

 

owbc, how does one become an investor in the Brewers franchise? I'm interested in finding out for myself. Thanks.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Rick Schlesinger,

 

 

MLB.com: What about here at Miller Park? What is the next big infrastructure project?

 

Schlesinger: That's a good question, because one of the things we do internally is every year we do our research and diligence and come up with 10-15 possible upgrades to Miller Park. It could be anything from the scoreboard to the Wall of Honor recognizing the Brewers of the past, to new sponsor areas.

 

What we're running into, and I think it's a good problem to have, is we're running out of space. I think we've done a nice job using ownership funds to enhance the ballpark, but there is only so much we can do. We don't want to take away from the ultimate character of Miller Park. The concourses are wide and open, and I don't want to clutter the ballpark or put in things that are inconsistent with the look and feel of Miller Park. So I've got a lot of ideas for 2015-16, but a lot depends on what kind of space we have. As we start to get the interior of the ballpark full, maybe [the club will explore] things on the plaza, maybe things in the parking lots. There are always technology upgrades we're looking at. We just put a new scoreboard in, but soon enough, we'll have a conversation about the next generation of scoreboards. The good thing is there's no shortage of projects. Mark and the ownership group have been great about giving us the funds to do it.

 

MLB.com: Do you see the area around Miller Park developing in terms of restaurants and bars in the Canal Street area and down in the Menomonee Valley?

 

Schlesinger: It hasn't been a primary focus for us because we've been focusing on the ballpark experience when fans get here. I think a lot of folks have a lot of different views. Some feel that building sort of a second downtown would create traffic and other issues. Other people think, yeah, Miller Park ... could really create a nice environment [for development]. I'm not saying no, and we're certainly paying attention to what's going on in St. Louis with Ballpark Village.

 

But that's a downtown ballpark. I think Miller Park, the character we have here is important. I don't want to get away from having ample parking lots for tailgating. That is a quintessential Miller Park experience, and we're not going to do anything that takes away from that experience. So that limits us in some respect to what we can do and what we're going to do, but I never say never. We have a long-term lease here, and there's a lot of land and a lot of [opportunity for] development. What comes in the future remains to be seen.

 

http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/2014/02/17/67802302/brewers-coo-rick-schlesinger-discusses-club-as-spring-training-begins

[reillymcshane]

Wisconsin has that pointless "Miller law" which has squashed microbreweries. As a result, Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

Just curious what is the Miller law. Never heard of it and can't find it on google.

A brewery can only own and operate four or five (I think that's the number) restaurants/bars in the state. It was created long ago to prevent big breweries from setting up chains all over the state and hurting smaller beer makers (who wouldn't be able to find bars and reastaurants to serve their beer).

 

Unfortunately, it's hindering micro brewers because they can't expand their presence. The Great Dane in Madison is an example. They have several locations in Madison, and one in another city (I think Wausau). They want to set up more places, but can't because of the restrictions.

 

Again, it was made to prevent the big beer makers from creating a monopoly. My details on the law probably aren't all right, but I think I got the gist of it.

[brwrsfan]

Two things...

 

1 - I've said for years and years that bars and restaurants would make an absolute killing being on the fringes of the lots. In the big general parking, there are a bunch of abandoned buildings just begging to be torn down. It gives people an outlet after the game and it's an alternative to tailgating when the weather is bad or whatever. The lack of anywhere to really go when a game ends is baffling - the Bluemound bars aren't overly far, but I would hardly call that close by either.

 

2- Parking lot bathrooms. I've put this on my season ticket survey every single year. There simply are not nearly enough bathrooms in the parking lot. Either add a bunch more portajohns, or as someone mentioned, build some permanent structures out there with BIG bathrooms. When you only get 3 hours to tailgate for most games (and this assumes you get there right when it opens), and then you have to spend 30+ minutes waiting in line for a bathroom (on busy days), there's obviously a huge problem. It leads to tons of guys just peeing in the woods or even just peeing right in the lot. Something needs to happen here.

 

As far as MP itself, I say it probably has at least 20 years left. At that point, maybe renovations, but I think it's a long, long time before we're talking about a brand new stadium.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

I say Miller Park lasts 30 to 50 years. As long as they continue to update the facility, they won't have to build a new park. Miller Park is a dome and domes in general are easier to maintain. Weather will never be a problem. The concourses are huge and there are numerous top notch concession stands in the ballpark. If any major renovations needed to be done to the structure, it wouldn't be a problem either. There's no reason why Miller Park should be torn down before age 50.

[Outlander]

Ever since Miller Park was constructed the business community has done a real good job with Miller Park Way but there is only so much that can be done with the VA taking so much space near the Park and the wasteland known as the Menomonee Valley. Maybe things will pick up once the Potowotomi Hotel is built.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Two things...

 

1 - I've said for years and years that bars and restaurants would make an absolute killing being on the fringes of the lots. In the big general parking, there are a bunch of abandoned buildings just begging to be torn down. It gives people an outlet after the game and it's an alternative to tailgating when the weather is bad or whatever. The lack of anywhere to really go when a game ends is baffling - the Bluemound bars aren't overly far, but I would hardly call that close by either.

 

2- Parking lot bathrooms. I've put this on my season ticket survey every single year. There simply are not nearly enough bathrooms in the parking lot. Either add a bunch more portajohns, or as someone mentioned, build some permanent structures out there with BIG bathrooms. When you only get 3 hours to tailgate for most games (and this assumes you get there right when it opens), and then you have to spend 30+ minutes waiting in line for a bathroom (on busy days), there's obviously a huge problem. It leads to tons of guys just peeing in the woods or even just peeing right in the lot. Something needs to happen here.

 

As far as MP itself, I say it probably has at least 20 years left. At that point, maybe renovations, but I think it's a long, long time before we're talking about a brand new stadium.

 

The Brewers own the lease on that property closest to Miller Park. However, according to Rick the economy has put a huge hold on any construction there. Also, they are trying to fill up Miller Park with improvements before transitioning to the outside. That comes first, then it's the parking lots, which really shouldn't be that big of a deal, not sure why they are waiting on that... Come on install permanent bathrooms at least for large qty of people. Then comes the abandoned buildings by the general lot which the Brewers own, which hold tremnodus opportunity and is a gold mine if you demolish those old buildings and rebuild them and put a hotel, resutarantsl, and bars and other forms of entertainment there. It's such a gold mine that I would invest in many businesses that payed the Brewers to open their business there. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

I have to say this..... This economy isn't deterring Brewers fans from Miller Park. As long as the Brewers are competitive and have a chance at the playoffs they will draw 3 million fans and that means these entertainment business would profit hugely, despite the economy. Now the only reason I can think of why now isn't a good time for the Brewers to develop is because they don't have many business owners with enough cash in Milwaukee to rent the space from the Brewers and pay what it would take to operate it. Lot's of people lost money lots of money over the years. I know of plans of a major AMC theater building plan here where I live that was nixed due to the developer not having the cash due to the investor losing so much of his money. I'm thinking 5 years+ from now when things really start moving and this economy is booming that the Brewers come up with a master development plan for their 186 acres they own directly around miller park. Rick said that they have big plans for the stadium in 2015-16, so that means this year through 2016 they wont even think about the outside property or the 186 acres.

[DoubleSwitch]

Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

I've got to seriously disagree with you here. Wisconsin may not quite be on the level of Colorado, California and Oregon, but there is a huge amount of great beer in the state. Tyranena, Lake Louie, Ale Asylum, Oso, Potosi, Lakefront, Central Waters are all fantastic brewers and that's only scratching the surface. New Glarus is the 18th largest brewery in the country and it only sells within the state. It's larger than many significant national and regional brands like Founders, Anchor Steam, and Great Lakes. This is a pretty amazing accomplishment. The state is seventh in the country in total craft brewers. Oregon might be heaven if all you want is IPA, but I'll take the balance and selection here over pretty much any state other than Colorado and Michigan.

 

Agree with you on the distributorship law. Crony capitalism at it's worst, but this isn't really the proper place to discuss that. The selection has more to do with who's name is on the stadium than the availability of good beer in Wisconsin. I save my beer drinking for the parking lot in any case, because I don't really care to pay stadium prices.

[owbc]

Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

I've got to seriously disagree with you here. Wisconsin may not quite be on the level of Colorado, California and Oregon, but there is a huge amount of great beer in the state. Tyranena, Lake Louie, Ale Asylum, Oso, Potosi, Lakefront, Central Waters are all fantastic brewers and that's only scratching the surface. New Glarus is the 18th largest brewery in the country and it only sells within the state. It's larger than many significant national and regional brands like Founders, Anchor Steam, and Great Lakes. This is a pretty amazing accomplishment. The state is seventh in the country in total craft brewers. Oregon might be heaven if all you want is IPA, but I'll take the balance and selection here over pretty much any state other than Colorado and Michigan.

 

Agree with you on the distributorship law. Crony capitalism at it's worst, but this isn't really the proper place to discuss that. The selection has more to do with who's name is on the stadium than the availability of good beer in Wisconsin. I save my beer drinking for the parking lot in any case, because I don't really care to pay stadium prices.

 

I haven't heard of half those craft breweries so I guess things have changed somewhat since I left the state. I agree that Wisconsin has amazing beer, it just seems that law prevents it from being distributed as widely as other places. Miller Park does have a somewhat questionable beer selection but I agree that it's overpriced anyway. It's probably off-topic to continue this...

 

Anyway, it's clear that if the Brewers wanted to put restaurants and other stuff in the parking lots, they could make a fortune. But it's to their credit that they allow the tailgaiting tradition to continue. Accessibility is important since a huge portion of their weekend attendance drives in from outside the Milwaukee metro area.

[BCZF]

The lots are owned by the county and parking is administered privately.

[PeaveyFury]

Wisconsin has a terrible selection of local brews compared with many other states. So really there aren't really that many beers to choose from in Wisconsin.

 

I've got to seriously disagree with you here. Wisconsin may not quite be on the level of Colorado, California and Oregon, but there is a huge amount of great beer in the state. Tyranena, Lake Louie, Ale Asylum, Oso, Potosi, Lakefront, Central Waters are all fantastic brewers and that's only scratching the surface. New Glarus is the 18th largest brewery in the country and it only sells within the state. It's larger than many significant national and regional brands like Founders, Anchor Steam, and Great Lakes. This is a pretty amazing accomplishment. The state is seventh in the country in total craft brewers. Oregon might be heaven if all you want is IPA, but I'll take the balance and selection here over pretty much any state other than Colorado and Michigan.

 

And that doesn't include the great brewpubs like the previously mentioned Great Dane, Vintage Brewing, etc that are prevalent in Madison/Milwaukee.

[Invader3K]

re: beers, Miller Park has a pretty decent selection of beers compared to other stadiums I've been at. It's not like you're just stuck drinking Miller Lite and MGD. You just have to get up and look around, though.

 

I remember when Miller Park was built, it was said they figured the building would have at least a 50 year lifespan, so that's what I figure we'll be looking at. The advantage of Miller Park vs County Stadium is that it's not a rigid concrete box like the old park was. They'll be able to do some re-configurations down the line if they need to in order to expand the park's lifespan.

 

As far as the area around the park...I really don't see where people figure all these supposed restaurants and bars could be placed. There aren't that many vacant spaces around the park anymore. The area immediately east of the stadium used to be a waste land, but now there are a bunch of manufacturing companies that have set up shop right across the street.

[TooLiveBrew]

Fyi, there is a Beer Thread in the Off Topic forum. Any beer-specific discussion should go there. Thanks!

 

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=30533

[Nottso]

Miller Park should last for many, many years as it was built with an almost unheard of level of forward thinking. All of the mechanical systems (heating, cooling, electric, etc) were built with enormous capacities that will make future additions/expansions extremely simple and inexpensive (relatively speaking). A lot of extra money was spent but that money will end up being a huge bargain over the life of the stadium.

 

The roof, while it certainly had its growing pains, is a masterpiece of simplicity (mechanically speaking). The panels simply ride on wheels that are driven by electric motors. There's nothing fancy or complicated about it when one gets right down to it. The roof moves so slowly, over such a limited range of motion, so few times per year that the pivot point and all other bearings should remain healthy almost indefinitely with proper maintenance.

 

Electric motors can last a lifetime. If one of the motors in the roof at MP does go bad it's an easy enough swap. It's pretty much the same as changing any other electric motor, just on a much larger scale. As for the roof's computer controls, I have no clue. That would be for people much smarter than I.

[1992casey]

Milwaukee County owns the land; the Brewers lease it, and the lease gives them the right to develop it. Parking is handled by a private company chosen by the Brewers, meaning that the team actually does profit from parking. The team could opt to run the parking lot with its own employees if it felt that was a better option.

[thebruce44]

owbc, how does one become an investor in the Brewers franchise? I'm interested in finding out for myself. Thanks.

 

Contact one of the owners or a mutual contact and schedule a meeting. I'd imagine that you would have to find someone interested in selling some ownership and that you would have to have more than $10 mil avilable for them to be interested in meeting with you.

[RobDeer 45]

I think about this topic quite a bit. Not only Miller Park, but all these new stadiums that were built, who will be first to build another one. It's huge business, it helps the owners a ton, and they put it on the tax payers. I'm sure it will start to happen sooner than we think. Just a prediction.

 

I do think if Miller park can keep adding to it, like Lambeau, it could last for quite awhile. New things gets people excited for a few years. I've always wondered if they could add more of an atrium in the outfield Build it back further to the road. Maybe have a bar back there and some seating (not stands, but tables, etc). Not sure if they could do that but it would be cool.

 

I also would absolutely love if they could build a few hotels with Bars and restaurants on the first floor. Does anyone know anything about the empty lots and the couple buildings just east of the parking lot? I would think they could put together quite the area back there and I'm sure would have no problem coming up with the money. That way you get the tailgating and also that scene. I agree I'd hate to see tailgating scene go away, but there is nothing better than being in a setting where you can walk from the game and sit down for dinner after.

[pacopete4]

If there were hotels basically next to Miller Park it would be worth the money to stay there and still tailgate as you would not have to worry about driving after the ballgame. What a perfect idea. The only thing I could see is that the hotels would be way over priced(for me) and I wouldn't stay there anyways.

[fondybrewfan]

I agree it would be pretty awesome if you could stay in a hotel and walk to the game. The hotel could even have a designated tailgating area. I don't know if they can spare any parking lot but I would think there is a way you could fit one in there.

[NeedMoreFans]

The biggest issue with developing the area around MP is the fact that the stadium is only used 81 days a year. That is a lot of time where nothing is going on down there, and any hotel that would open in the area would see a significant number of nights where occupancy would be low. Same with bars/restaurants. I was in Phoenix a few years ago before the baseball season began, and it was a ghost town. Most bars were closed and there was a sense of emptiness.