State of the Central

[Dead Simmons]

Vegasgrewcrew said:

I can tell Wacha's going to be a major pain in the butt for the Brewers. The guy has filthy stuff. It would not surprise if he had a bit of a sophomore slump though. Wacha is the ace of the future for the Cards. What do you think about Carlos Martinez and Shelby Miller. I'm not a Miller fan. I think he relies on the fastball too much and it's going to get him killed.

 

On Wacha, he certainly looks to be the real deal. Only time will tell. Martinez is a different case. Electric stuff, but control issues. All the potential is there. It may take years to make a real pitcher of him and the Cards generally trade his type away.

 

Miller is very good. He really trusts his FB. I don't know why hitters don't just sit on it. Last year after a couple of complete game wins he started to fade. Walking guys, getting knocked around. The long season had gotten to him and Matheney took him out of the rotation for the post season. I don't think he threw 1 pitch to the Redsox.

 

I don't know what Matheny's going to do when Jason Motte and Garcia return. As it is there are two bona fide starters in the pen, Martinez and Rosenthal. Motte will replace him as the closer. Who does Garcia replace? Lance Lynn?

[Dead Simmons]

 

Hey, Missouri guy, why don't you GET OUT! Since you showed up, we went from a 9 game winning streak to a 2 game losing streak!!!!!!!!! ;-)

I feel you Deer. Being the jinx conscience fan that I am, you will note that I joined on Monday but held off posting until 'till tues, after the streak ended.

 

Ha! Just messing around. I love good baseball talk with fans of any team. I'm sure everyone feels the same, but we appreciate the fact that you are very tactful in the way you post over here on enemy territory. It's really a pretty great group of fans over here that just like to talk and debate baseball.

OK Deer. You know, I lived in California for 8 years and went to some games. Always wore my old beat up Cardinal cap and actually had a great time kibitzing with the enemy, especially at Jack Murphy. ( but I wouldn't be caught dead in Dodger stadium today)

 

I got a good look at Gomez last night. If ever there was a hitter with bad intentions! Miller had his number, but he had a lot of numbers. I want to see more of Carlos. Tell me, what's the idea of batting him leadoff? Seems utterly miscast.

[reillymcshane]

I want to see more of Carlos. Tell me, what's the idea of batting him leadoff? Seems utterly miscast.

 

I think Roenicke just wanted to see how many heads would explode on message boards.

[jerichoholicninja]

I want to see more of Carlos. Tell me, what's the idea of batting him leadoff? Seems utterly miscast.

 

I think Roenicke just wanted to see how many heads would explode on message boards.

 

I agree that Gomez isn't a leadoff hitter but who else on the team is? Ramirez led the team in OBP last year but you want him lower in the lineup. Braun puts up a solid OBP but same issue as Ramirez.

 

With the team that the Brewers have I feel Gomez is the best option. He doesn't have a high OBP but he has the power to get an extra base hit and the speed to steal second if he only gets a single. He won't get many at bats with runners on base hitting leadoff which is probably a good thing for his horrible approach at the plate and penchant for striking out.

[Dead Simmons]

Jericho said:

I agree that Gomez isn't a leadoff hitter but who else on the team is? Ramirez led the team in OBP last year but you want him lower in the lineup. Braun puts up a solid OBP but same issue as Ramirez.

 

I think you just hit on it. I know it won't even be tried, but it looks to me that Braun IS the best option. Leading off would relieve the pressure of trying to prove he still has power. I noticed that after his big 3 HR game his numbers have went down. That happens to everybody. It's hard to resist being Babe Ruth.

 

Perhaps if Braun would take Votto's approach? Line drives and walks. He is well suited for leadoff, but the MVP award precludes such a move. It would be a "demotion". That's why Jockety is pushing the hitless wonder Hamilton so hard, so the fans will stop clamoring.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Vegasgrewcrew said:

I can tell Wacha's going to be a major pain in the butt for the Brewers. The guy has filthy stuff. It would not surprise if he had a bit of a sophomore slump though. Wacha is the ace of the future for the Cards. What do you think about Carlos Martinez and Shelby Miller. I'm not a Miller fan. I think he relies on the fastball too much and it's going to get him killed.

 

On Wacha, he certainly looks to be the real deal. Only time will tell. Martinez is a different case. Electric stuff, but control issues. All the potential is there. It may take years to make a real pitcher of him and the Cards generally trade his type away.

 

Miller is very good. He really trusts his FB. I don't know why hitters don't just sit on it. Last year after a couple of complete game wins he started to fade. Walking guys, getting knocked around. The long season had gotten to him and Matheney took him out of the rotation for the post season. I don't think he threw 1 pitch to the Redsox.

 

I don't know what Matheny's going to do when Jason Motte and Garcia return. As it is there are two bona fide starters in the pen, Martinez and Rosenthal. Motte will replace him as the closer. Who does Garcia replace? Lance Lyne?

 

I'd be patient with Rosenthal. I think he could end up being a lights out closer. The future rotation should look like this

1. Wacha

2. Wainwright

3. Garcia

4. Miller

5. Lynn

 

I'd trade away Miller for an elite defensive SS. SS and C are the only positions where I would gladly sacrifice offense for defense. Peralta is a disaster defensively. Martinez may end up being a BP guy if he can't fix his control issues. It seems like the Cards prioritize flamethrowers over control guys. When is Taveras going to get called up? Seems like only a matter of time now that Beltran is gone. Holliday is safe in left. Who's the RF? I'd put Taveras in RF and leave Jay in CF. Jay's defense is sick.

[TheCrew07]

The Cards have no shortage of OF options over the long term, they are loaded in the OF. The divisional prospect thread on the minor league forum as a linked BA article covering their entire OF situation. It's worth a read, as is that entire thread if you are interested where the division teams are heading.

[brewcrewdue80]

What's wrong with Gomez leading off? Doesn't he have 3 Leadoff HRs this year? That was the point in batting him Leadoff, is his approach at the plate is super aggressive and high energy. A Starter just getting under way and may not fully be loose/warmed up (as is known) likely will make mistakes in the 1st inning pitched before settling in to a groove. Well? If you bat Gomez 6th where he appears best, he doesn't get that 1st inning AB vs. a potential mistake thrown pitch.

As to the state of the Central.

St. Louis has immense Pitching talent locked down for years. Wainwright to me is top 3 in all of National League. Wacha and Miller are #2s with Ace abilities. Then Martinez/Rosenthal are fantastic.

Hitting there's new blood that is better at 2b Wong/SS Peralta Adams is special I think. No Taveras just yet but he's supposed to be special. Just a team when you go 1-25 on their roster, that all important Starting 14+2RPS show no true weakness. In a 162game season playing .650-.700ball seems easy with that.

Cincy: Overachievers. I'm not a fan of their pitching. I think they are #3s who people see as #2s. I don't think Cingrani is any better than any of the Brewers starting 5. Latos/Chapman on the DL puts them games back in the W/L they couldn't afford. Phillips hit out of control last year and it was a fluke costing the Reds many Reds that you could project. No Choo insert Hamilton mass decline atop the order. Just not enough runs when your best hitter Votto walks so much and doesn't have the supporting cast to give his pitching staff enough runs.

Pitts. Dangerous team but no Taillon now and who knows in the future? Really just cost that team 4-5wins imo. Great Future for this franchise but it's not built right this year with Taillon on the shelf. Best OF in the game maybe when Polanco joins McCutchen/Marte. Future is bright just not yet(last season was a premature Tease)

Cubs: Terrible Pitching. Travis Wood/Jeff Samardzija atop their rotation and to me those two are #4s on avg. Poor Pitching gets you Minnesota Twins of '13 kind of record. 65-67wins. Bright Offensively Prospects to come but not until Pitchers are added to this team can they be considered anything but the worst in the Central. Being in a Big Market, who knows? when they open the wallet and buy themselves a staff?

 

And the Brewers. Much better on paper this season. But on a 1-25 scale they have the 12 of the Starting 14+2RPs but beyond that they take a big drop off in depth. The Future is this year and maybe next. 2 year window to accomplish the impossible....a WS win. What does this team buy at the Trade Deadline to either get over the hump or fall flat on their faces come 2016?

[Invader3K]

re: Leadoff spot, I think this is something that gets over analyzed. Like others have said, if not Gomez, then who? Lucroy I guess could fit the roll, but Gomez is working out just fine in the 1 spot.

 

Of course it would be nice if Rickie Weeks ever becomes a good player again, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

[pitchleague]

The Cards have no shortage of OF options over the long term, they are loaded in the OF. The divisional prospect thread on the minor league forum as a linked BA article covering their entire OF situation. It's worth a read, as is that entire thread if you are interested where the division teams are heading.

 

 

I'm not being snide or mean or anything (please respect my humor), but I think this is, quite possibly, the shortest post by "The Crew07" that I have ever read.

 

Okay, with that said, continue your discussion, which is very interesting to read.

[Dead Simmons]

Vegasbrew said:

 

I'd trade away Miller for an elite defensive SS. SS and C are the only positions where I would gladly sacrifice offense for defense. Peralta is a disaster defensively. Martinez may end up being a BP guy if he can't fix his control issues. It seems like the Cards prioritize flamethrowers over control guys. When is Taveras going to get called up? Seems like only a matter of time now that Beltran is gone. Holliday is safe in left. Who's the RF? I'd put Taveras in RF and leave Jay in CF. Jay's defense is sick.

 

Taveras is a BIG problem. He's a right fielder. They had grand plans of putting him in CF, but apparently they scrapped the idea. Now his only shot is to fill in when Craig gets hurt, or Adams. (Craig moving to 1B) They say that Oscar will join the club in June.

 

When you say Jay's defense is "sick", you are right.....in a bad way! I guess you missed his WS performance. He was bad. He does only 2 things well: Goes back for balls, hits the cutoff man. That's it.

 

How many outfield assists do you think he had last year as the regular CFer? He had one. It came in September when a guy tried to stretch a single to a triple. The only reason he gets playing time is because of his new contract. He will be moved soon.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Vegasbrew said:

 

I'd trade away Miller for an elite defensive SS. SS and C are the only positions where I would gladly sacrifice offense for defense. Peralta is a disaster defensively. Martinez may end up being a BP guy if he can't fix his control issues. It seems like the Cards prioritize flamethrowers over control guys. When is Taveras going to get called up? Seems like only a matter of time now that Beltran is gone. Holliday is safe in left. Who's the RF? I'd put Taveras in RF and leave Jay in CF. Jay's defense is sick.

 

Taveras is a BIG problem. He's a right fielder. They had grand plans of putting him in CF, but apparently they scrapped the idea. Now his only shot is to fill in when Craig gets hurt, or Adams. (Craig moving to 1B) They say that Oscar will join the club in June.

 

When you say Jay's defense is "sick", you are right.....in a bad way! I guess you missed his WS performance. He was bad. He does only 2 things well: Goes back for balls, hits the cutoff man. That's it.

 

How many outfield assists do you think he had last year as the regular CFer? He had one. It came in September when a guy tried to stretch a single to a triple. The only reason he gets playing time is because of his new contract. He will be moved soon.

 

Interesting that you should say that about Jay. My Cardinals friend loves his defensive skills. I'm a little surprised to hear that. It seems like he's stuck in CF for you guys for now. Is a Taveras a must keep guy for you or would you trade him for a real shiny prize? Cardinals are ready to win now. An elite SS could make them unstoppable. I'd be tempted to trade a highly talented but unproven rookie for a big time player right now.

[Dead Simmons]

Interesting that you should say that about Jay. My Cardinals friend loves his defensive skills. I'm a little surprised to hear that. It seems like he's stuck in CF for you guys for now. Is a Taveras a must keep guy for you or would you trade him for a real shiny prize? Cardinals are ready to win now. An elite SS could make them unstoppable. I'd be tempted to trade a highly talented but unproven rookie for a big time player right now.

 

Due to his lack of playing time with the big club, it is widely believed that he's trade bait. A player as clutch as Allen Craig is irreplaceable. This guy has a better career hitting with RISP ave. than DiMag, Williams, Musial, Gherig, you name 'em! You are not aware of the Jay and Kozma replacements? Jhonny Peralta and Peter Bourjos.

 

Kozma was sent down, but Jay still gets playing time as Peter is not hitting. Peralta has 4 HR's in 2 weeks, more than Kozma had all last season. On Jay: I shared your friend's opinion at first, but the career .300 hitter with occasional power flirted with Mendoza last year and committed numerous fielding gaffes in CF. His luster has diminished. More trade bait.

 

Tavaras is regarded as the best hitter in the entire Cardinal system. But he keeps getting nagging injuries. We've been hearing about him for years, and have seen him in Spring Training. First it was Beltran, now Craig in his way. The kid HAS to be frustrated. Some team will get him. I'm sure that former Cardinal GM Walt Jockety, now with the Reds has an eye on him.

[torts]

going to tomorrow and sundays game against the pirates. I wish I was going to see the MLB debut of Polanco in RF, but knowing the pirates they'll probably call up Jaff Decker to sit on the bench instead now that Tabata is heading to the DL with concussion-like symptoms.

[Dead Simmons]

Cubs: Terrible Pitching. Travis Wood/Jeff Samardzija atop their rotation and to me those two are #4s on avg. Poor Pitching gets you Minnesota Twins of '13 kind of record. 65-67wins. Bright Offensively Prospects to come but not until Pitchers are added to this team can they be considered anything but the worst in the Central. Being in a Big Market, who knows? when they open the wallet and buy themselves a staff?

 

The Cub organization is a mystery to me. It's not that they won't spend (Soriano!) But unlike the Yanks, Dodgers, Angels and Bosox they always seem to spend it in the wrong place. I would site it as bad luck, but 100+ years of bad luck is impossible.

 

ARam and Soriano seemed to play like they didn't want to be there. Maybe they picked that up from Pinella. It's obvious that Aramis wants to play for the Brewers. And Sori is improved as a Yankee.

 

Around the Central: Brandon Phillips had to leave the game with back spasms believed by some to have incurred in a photo prank before the game where he jumped HIGH in the air to get in some fans' picture. What a guy.

 

Cards' Kelly is on the 15 day DL. No telling who will take his spot in the rotation. Lyons brought up, Kosma sent down. In losing to the Nats the Cards committed 5 errors, but only 3 were ruled as such. Wacha with a tough loss, but was out-pitched by Gi Gonzales.

 

The Reds showing signs of life by beating the Cubs again. Now won 3 straight as the Baby Bears have dropped 5. (4-11) I tell you... the Cubs are NOT that bad!

[RockCoCougars]

How many more years can Theo milk the Red Sox WS runs? I'm not seeing any improvements, and pretty much every move that he's made with guys currently in the bigs has been underwhelming. He's already on his second manager, but I suppose the 'barren farm system' excuse will buy him at least a few more years.

[dlk9s]

Epstein has only been with the Cubs for 2.5 years. Give the guy a chance to fix all the crap (not that we want him to).

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

How many more years can Theo milk the Red Sox WS runs? I'm not seeing any improvements, and pretty much every move that he's made with guys currently in the bigs has been underwhelming. He's already on his second manager, but I suppose the 'barren farm system' excuse will buy him at least a few more years.

 

Believe it or not, the Cubs actually remind me a lot of the Brewers from 2002 to 2006. The Brewers major league roster sucked, but the farm system was loaded with hitters. The Cubs are the same way now. They stink but their farm is loaded with good hitting prospects. The only difference is that at least the Brewers had Gallardo in system. I don't think the Cubs have any pitching prospects that project to be as good as Gallardo. If I was Theo I would trade Samardzija and a few other veterans for pitching prospects. The Cubs have fat wallets too. Use up the money on buying a rotation and a pen.

[RockCoCougars]

Epstein has only been with the Cubs for 2.5 years. Give the guy a chance to fix all the crap (not that we want him to).

 

It's not like he was taking over the '01 Brewers or something. He actually inherited a pretty good group of pitchers (Garza, Samardzja, Dempster, Zambrano, Cashner, etc.). I'll give him a pass on Zambrano, but he basically turned Garza, Dempster and Cashner into Rizzo, Olt, Grimm and a few other pieces. He also give Edwin Jackson $50 million bucks, Starlin Castro $60 million, and a guy who hasn't cracked the low minors $30 million. The only move that seems like is win is getting Wood from the Reds. They've been losing at 100 game clip from the getgo, so I'm not really seeing any progress. He had better hope that most of the hitting prospects come through, because their pitching looks barren.

[RockCoCougars]

How many more years can Theo milk the Red Sox WS runs? I'm not seeing any improvements, and pretty much every move that he's made with guys currently in the bigs has been underwhelming. He's already on his second manager, but I suppose the 'barren farm system' excuse will buy him at least a few more years.

 

Believe it or not, the Cubs actually remind me a lot of the Brewers from 2002 to 2006. The Brewers major league roster sucked, but the farm system was loaded with hitters. The Cubs are the same way now. They stink but their farm is loaded with good hitting prospects. The only difference is that at least the Brewers had Gallardo in system. I don't think the Cubs have any pitching prospects that project to be as good as Gallardo. If I was Theo I would trade Samardzija and a few other veterans for pitching prospects. The Cubs have fat wallets too. Use up the money on buying a rotation and a pen.

 

Point taken that the Cubs have fat wallets, but I'm not sure that I'd want Theo spending big money on free agents. His track record there is atrocious.

[Dead Simmons]

Scant days after my prediction that the NL Central would be the toughest again is being seriously challenged By the AL East. Only 2 games separate first (NY) and last (Bosox)

 

The Cubs snapped their 5 game skid by beating the Reds, and can start their next losing streak tomorrow.

 

Cards@Nats: Lance Lyne, who must be the luckiest man in pro sports managed to win with only 4 runs in support, 3 short of what he's used to. He has never lost a game in April (and probably never won a game in Sept) He actually passed the previous pitcher with the best April record to begin a career by passing.....are you ready?...Babe Ruth.

 

I missed the incident, but Bryce Harper was pulled by his manager for "loafing". Sure enough, down by a run and men in scoring position in the 9th, 2 outs, his spot came to bat....ground out. Atlanta thanks you Mr. Harper.

[PrinceFielderx1]

The Brewers start against the quality of teams they have played tells me they will contend for the division and can beat out the Cards.

[Dead Simmons]

The Brewers start against the quality of teams they have played tells me they will contend for the division and can beat out the Cards.

For sure, the Brews have made a significant statement with great pitching and hitting with 2/3 of April completed. The Reds are in danger of being too far behind when they get it turned around, and the Cards' Achilles heel, middle relief, has again been exposed, contributing to all but one of their losses. Randy Choat and Seth Maness simply can't get the job done.

 

The Pirates loom. For the last 4 years they get just a little bit better. McCutchen is the real deal, and the players have confidence in each other. But no relief yet for them as they start another series with the Reds on Monday, while the Brews, Cubs and Cards finally face the copped liver of baseball, Pads, Astro's and D'Backs.

[endaround]

The Pirates might be dead by the end of April. Currently they are in 4th place which is bad. The next 7 games might determine if they can do some thing 4 against the Reds and three against the Cardinals. (Then 5 against the AL East...). If they go 2-5 over the next 7 they are at 10-16 and likely buried in 4th.

 

Grilli may have reached his reliever expiration date. They need Marte to be the 5 tool player everyone says he is and not Bret Lawrie 2.0.

[Dead Simmons]

_________________Central Batting Leaders_______________

 

____________AVE____RUNS____2B____HR____RBI

M. Adams____.357_____4_______8_____2_____5

A. Ramirez___.353______7_______2_____2____15

J. Lucroy_____.344_____8_______9_____1_____7

Y. Molina_____.338_____10______4_____4_____10

A. Rizzo______.333_____9_______2_____2_____8

J. Votto______.322_____12______3_____4_____9

C. Gomez____.312_____13______4______5____12

R. Braun_____.300_____16______3_____6____14

S. Castro_____.292_____5_______2_____2_____9

B. Phillips_____290_____3_______2_____3_____3

 

*Bonifacio (Cubs) SB-9__ McCutchen (Bucs) BB-16

*SLG% Braun-.629