Why won't Davis take a walk?

[HiAndTight]

Davis is perfectly fine like I said a page ago & Segura is fine also. What are you guys talking about?

 

 

We're talking about how they're NOT fine. Davis' approach is nothing like what it's been coming up through the minors. He's not drawing walks and is swinging at bad pitches.

 

The same is/was true for Segura.

 

I know you like to be the optimist, and that's great. I hate people who consistently find ways to be pessimistic, but there is a difference between believing a player WILL be fine, and just flat out ignoring how they're performing at the moment and denying there is a problem when it's painfully obvious there is one.

 

 

We have won DESPITE the production we've got from Davis and Segura thus far. Hopefully they get it turned around soon.

 

This problem that you are talking about wont last, so you wont see me talking about it for either player.

 

 

So then I would assume you wouldn't be talking about the Brewer hot start and their 19-7 record since that likely wont last either, right?

 

Just saying you don't believe something will last doesn't mean that you can stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's not happening. Davis' approach at the plate right now is very bad. Segura's approach at the plate isn't as bad, but he is also swinging at very poor pitches.

 

I don't pretend to have a crystal ball to try and decipher what will and what will not last(though I can reasonably conclude the Brewers won't win 120 games this year)

 

Is Weeks also fine?

[PrinceFielderx1]

Hi and Tight,

 

Davis needs a minor adjustment at the plate and he will be on fire at the plate. Segura will also have to make a minor adjustment, but he will be fine. These guys are pure talented hitters and over time they will solve their issue. I predict in a short period of time.

 

The Brewers obviosly wont win 120 games, but 96 isn't out of the question in this division. Weeks is done.

[reillymcshane]

Sending down a struggling guy to the minors doesn't mean the team doesn't believe in a guy. It can simply mean he's having a tough time and needs a different venue to work out his issues. It happens all the time with young players. The big leagues aren't always the best place for a player to work out their problems - especially if a team is in a playoff race.

 

The same scouting reports that got the team to believe in Davis also had specific concerns about his long swing. So they knew he might struggle at times - and they should be ready to act.

 

The thing is that I really, really want Davis to do well. I think he can be a 25 HR guy, and we need his power. But a .270 OBP is brutal. Especially for a mediocre defensive player. He's got to adjust. If not, he's going to be at AAA within 4-5 weeks.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hi and Tight,

 

Davis needs a minor adjustment at the plate and he will be on fire at the plate. Segura will also have to make a minor adjustment, but he will be fine. These guys are pure talented hitters and over time they will solve their issue. I predict in a short period of time.

 

The Brewers obviosly wont win 120 games, but 96 isn't out of the question in this division. Weeks is done.

What do you see as the minor adjustments for Davis & Segura?

[endaround]

Should Davis be walking? Yes, the fact that he isn't when he walked a good deal in the minors likely points to a coaching issue. All that said, Davis's wOBA is 93 in 96 PAs. Not what you want out of a left fielder but hardly the end of the world.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Hi and Tight,

 

Davis needs a minor adjustment at the plate and he will be on fire at the plate. Segura will also have to make a minor adjustment, but he will be fine. These guys are pure talented hitters and over time they will solve their issue. I predict in a short period of time.

 

The Brewers obviosly wont win 120 games, but 96 isn't out of the question in this division. Weeks is done.

What do you see as the minor adjustments for Davis & Segura?

 

Davis needs to expect 2 pitches in 1 AB on the outside of the plate or out of the zone. I don't care if he takes a pitch that he thinks is a strike on the outside corner he needs to take it. Once he does than he can expect a pitch over the plate, because the count will likely be in his favor, and he needs to take it the other way like he did last night. Just get in a count where you will get a pitch to get the center of the bat on. Going the other way is so key, and you are daring him to pitch you their again which will result in either a hit to RF or a walk, and very rarely a SO.

 

When Gomez was struggling right before he got out of his funk a year ago he I'm assuming was told to just take some pitches strikes or not. The pitcher wont locate all the time, so doing that will increase your chances of getting a pitch to square up on, and you make the pitcher work.

 

So for Davis he needs to think take pitches. I'd tell him to just stand there with the bat on his shoulders and let the pitcher kinda know he wont be swinging and the pitcher will have to work for it to get me out. Then as the count gets in your favor think barrel of the bat and opposite field. The more he does this and is successful the less pitchers will pitch him this way, and it will force them to pitch him more inside, which he has a large inside area over the plate like Braun that he can smash anything in that area. If I was the hitting coach I'd tell him to do exactly this.

 

Segura just needs to shorten up and go the other way so many times that the pitcher will come in on him and that's when Segura will show power. Segura make good contact, but pulls way to many pitches.

[HiAndTight]

Hi and Tight,

 

Davis needs a minor adjustment at the plate and he will be on fire at the plate. Segura will also have to make a minor adjustment, but he will be fine. These guys are pure talented hitters and over time they will solve their issue. I predict in a short period of time.

 

The Brewers obviosly wont win 120 games, but 96 isn't out of the question in this division. Weeks is done.

 

 

Oh, alright, that's great. Just minor adjustments and they'll be on fire.

 

But if they need to make adjustments so that Davis doesn't carry a .271 OBP and doesn't draw more than 1 walk in 101 PA's, then wouldn't that suggest there IS in fact something wrong with him right now? Which is pretty close to what Segura's doing right now.

 

 

Nobody ever said that they won't improve or figure it out. All they said was that right now, there is a problem in their approaches at the plate and they're lacking plate discipline. No matter what shade of Brewer blue your glasses are, you can't argue with that.

[HiAndTight]

Should Davis be walking? Yes, the fact that he isn't when he walked a good deal in the minors likely points to a coaching issue. All that said, Davis's wOBA is 93 in 96 PAs. Not what you want out of a left fielder but hardly the end of the world.

 

 

Nor is anyone suggesting as much. But it is a major concern. And it's not 1 BB in 101 PA's.

 

Even is BABIP is up almost 50 points from last year as well.

 

I'm think he'll snap out of it. I don't think he'll be able to carry over what he did the last couple months of the season last year over your average 162 game season, but if he can be a Josh Willingham type guy I'd be very happy with that.

 

 

I don't follow what you mean by "coaching issue," however. Plate discipline is something that comes from muscle memory and hand eye coordination. I don't know how a coach is going to change that. And obviously RR isn't a big fan of his pitch selection based on numerous comments he's made.

[RobDeer 45]

I do think Davis needs to work on and be coached up on plate discipline. I also think he has all the makings of a streaky hitter. When he's seeing the ball well, his hitting will be good. When he's not seeing the ball well, like now, he will struggle. I'm sure PrinceFilederx1 will attribute it to the "adjustments" he's talking about, but really, I just think Davis looks like a streak guy. I have faith that he will have some really good stretches.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hard to be too harsh on a guy who's gotten key extra base hits in 3 extra inning wins in the first month of the season. Right now teams are attacking him in the zone. What's he supposed to do, take pitches and get behind 0-2 every AB? Eventually he'll earn some respect, but I'd leave him alone.

[TooLiveBrew]

What do you see as the minor adjustments for Davis & Segura?

 

Davis needs to expect 2 pitches in 1 AB on the outside of the plate or out of the zone. I don't care if he takes a pitch that he thinks is a strike on the outside corner he needs to take it. Once he does than he can expect a pitch over the plate, because the count will likely be in his favor, and he needs to take it the other way like he did last night. Just get in a count where you will get a pitch to get the center of the bat on. Going the other way is so key, and you are daring him to pitch you their again which will result in either a hit to RF or a walk, and very rarely a SO.

 

When Gomez was struggling right before he got out of his funk a year ago he I'm assuming was told to just take some pitches strikes or not. The pitcher wont locate all the time, so doing that will increase your chances of getting a pitch to square up on, and you make the pitcher work.

 

So for Davis he needs to think take pitches. I'd tell him to just stand there with the bat on his shoulders and let the pitcher kinda know he wont be swinging and the pitcher will have to work for it to get me out. Then as the count gets in your favor think barrel of the bat and opposite field. The more he does this and is successful the less pitchers will pitch him this way, and it will force them to pitch him more inside, which he has a large inside area over the plate like Braun that he can smash anything in that area. If I was the hitting coach I'd tell him to do exactly this.

 

Segura just needs to shorten up and go the other way so many times that the pitcher will come in on him and that's when Segura will show power. Segura make good contact, but pulls way to many pitches.

Oh, gotcha. I thought you were talking about swing mechanics. I agree -- when a player is struggling, taking more pitches & getting away from a pull-centric approach is usually not a bad idea.

[logan82]

Hard to be too harsh on a guy who's gotten key extra base hits in 3 extra inning wins in the first month of the season. Right now teams are attacking him in the zone. What's he supposed to do, take pitches and get behind 0-2 every AB? Eventually he'll earn some respect, but I'd leave him alone.

He's swinging at a lot of pitches outside the zone. He has swung at 40% of the pitches outside the zone.

[HiAndTight]

Hard to be too harsh on a guy who's gotten key extra base hits in 3 extra inning wins in the first month of the season. Right now teams are attacking him in the zone. What's he supposed to do, take pitches and get behind 0-2 every AB? Eventually he'll earn some respect, but I'd leave him alone.

 

 

Not really. Not if you go 1-6 with 4 K's and you get a bit hit in your final AB.

 

It's akin to saying it's hard to complain about a pitcher walking a bunch of guys because his team ends up winning 10-9, so his 8 walks in 4 innings is something to worry about.

[reillymcshane]

Hard to be too harsh on a guy who's gotten key extra base hits in 3 extra inning wins in the first month of the season. Right now teams are attacking him in the zone. What's he supposed to do, take pitches and get behind 0-2 every AB? Eventually he'll earn some respect, but I'd leave him alone.

First, I don't like the idea of giving guys a free pass because they get 'key hits' or whatever. Sorry, but EVERY at bat is a key at bat. Knocking in a run in the third inning works just as well in the 12th. Sure it's great and memorable when a guy gets a hit to win a game or whatever - but it doesn't dismiss the five other times he failed in the game.

 

Second, he's not being attacked in the zone. Davis is swinging at pitches out of the zone. Swinging at good pitches is one thing, but hacking at everything is what he's doing.

 

Third, no, he won't gain respect from other pitchers at this rate. That will come with success, which he won't have if he doesn't adjust his approach. Pitchers will keep throwing him crap until he lays off of it.

 

I'm not saying Davis has to be sent down, but he has to make adjustments if he's going to stay in milwaukee.

[Bnowell4evr]

Caleb Gindl just tied Khris Davis current walk total in 105 fewer at bats. Davis' patience is so bad he's starting to make Yuni look like Joey Votto.

[danzig6767]

Caleb Gindl just tied Khris Davis current walk total in 105 fewer at bats. Davis' patience is so bad he's starting to make Yuni look like Joey Votto.

Marco Estrada has as many walks as Davis, let that one sink in.

 

The baffling thing is last year he walked 11 times in 136 at bats, yet this year he's only drawn one walk in 109 at bats. In the minors he drew walks at an above average rate. So why the hell is he showing worse than Yuni like impatience so far this year? And why are there zero signs of this getting better at all?

 

I gotta assume that the hitting coach Narron brings this up and Davis also sees this when watching video of his at bats, so i'm really at a loss to grasp why it still keeps happening in nearly every at bat.

[danzig6767]

I do think Davis needs to work on and be coached up on plate discipline. I also think he has all the makings of a streaky hitter. When he's seeing the ball well, his hitting will be good. When he's not seeing the ball well, like now, he will struggle. I'm sure PrinceFilederx1 will attribute it to the "adjustments" he's talking about, but really, I just think Davis looks like a streak guy. I have faith that he will have some really good stretches.

What does that even mean when you say if Davis is "seeing the ball well" his hitting will be good?

 

All year long he's been swinging at garbage, especially early in the count and thus much more often than not he finds himself in a defensive position by being say 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, etc in the count.

 

Pitchers aren't stupid. There is tons of both video to watch and analytical data out there for pitchers to study on hitters throughout baseball. If they can clearly see that a hitter will regularly hack at balls out of the strikezone, pitchers will keep throwing that hitter lots of pitches off the plate, especially early in the count until that hitter shows that he'll stop foolishly hacking at almost anything.

 

FWIW, i'm not giving up on Davis over just 110 at bats, but it shouldn't be very hard for him to look back at last year where he was much more patient at the plate and in turn had much better production.

[endaround]

Caleb Gindl just tied Khris Davis current walk total in 105 fewer at bats. Davis' patience is so bad he's starting to make Yuni look like Joey Votto.

Marco Estrada has as many walks as Davis, let that one sink in.

 

The baffling thing is last year he walked 11 times in 136 at bats, yet this year he's only drawn one walk in 109 at bats. In the minors he drew walks at an above average rate. So why the hell is he showing worse than Yuni like impatience so far this year? And why are there zero signs of this getting better at all?

 

I gotta assume that the hitting coach Narron brings this up and Davis also sees this when watching video of his at bats, so i'm really at a loss to grasp why it still keeps happening in nearly every at bat.

 

All Brewer outfielders are swinging at junk. Given that Davis did not due so before this year, my guess is the directive is to "attack" pitches.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/brewers-outfielders-are-chasing-pavements/

[HiAndTight]

Caleb Gindl just tied Khris Davis current walk total in 105 fewer at bats. Davis' patience is so bad he's starting to make Yuni look like Joey Votto.

Marco Estrada has as many walks as Davis, let that one sink in.

 

The baffling thing is last year he walked 11 times in 136 at bats, yet this year he's only drawn one walk in 109 at bats. In the minors he drew walks at an above average rate. So why the hell is he showing worse than Yuni like impatience so far this year? And why are there zero signs of this getting better at all?

 

I gotta assume that the hitting coach Narron brings this up and Davis also sees this when watching video of his at bats, so i'm really at a loss to grasp why it still keeps happening in nearly every at bat.

 

All Brewer outfielders are swinging at junk. Given that Davis did not due so before this year, my guess is the directive is to "attack" pitches.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/brewers-outfielders-are-chasing-pavements/

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with any new "directive," coming from anyone. Do you really believe after Khris Davis was exceptionally productive in his first stint in the big leagues, the same coaches went to him and said, "hey, even though you performed very well last year, we want you to change your approach this year?"

Do you think there is any chance they would do so with Braun?

 

 

We know they told Gomez to change his approach when Svuem was here, yet his BB% is the highest of his career thus far.

 

My guess is that Braun's thumb has had an impact(as well as a very small sample size) and it's likely painful or at least difficult for him to check his swing.

 

And with Khris Davis, the Brewers moved Ryan Braun to a new position to give him a spot in the starting lineup. Just maybe he's simply struggling due to pressure placed upon himself.

[HiAndTight]

Hard to be too harsh on a guy who's gotten key extra base hits in 3 extra inning wins in the first month of the season. Right now teams are attacking him in the zone. What's he supposed to do, take pitches and get behind 0-2 every AB? Eventually he'll earn some respect, but I'd leave him alone.

 

 

First, I don't like the idea of giving guys a free pass because they get 'key hits' or whatever. Sorry, but EVERY at bat is a key at bat. Knocking in a run in the third inning works just as well in the 12th. Sure it's great and memorable when a guy gets a hit to win a game or whatever - but it doesn't dismiss the five other times he failed in the game.

 

Second, he's not being attacked in the zone. Davis is swinging at pitches out of the zone. Swinging at good pitches is one thing, but hacking at everything is what he's doing.

 

Third, no, he won't gain respect from other pitchers at this rate. That will come with success, which he won't have if he doesn't adjust his approach. Pitchers will keep throwing him crap until he lays off of it.

 

I'm not saying Davis has to be sent down, but he has to make adjustments if he's going to stay in milwaukee.

 

 

I agree with everything you said. Davis has proven to be an exceptionally patient hitter throughout his professional career thus far, but he's just not getting the job done right now.

 

And I'm also not in favor of sending him down, though sending him down for 2 weeks might not be the worst idea if he's not improving once Braun is back in the lineup. But if the Brewers are going to continue to contend in the Central, they're going to need Khris Davis to be much more productive.

[JohnBriggs12]

Though I recently defended Davis, it's becoming increasingly clear they need better production in left field. His line of .225/.248./.408 is not only very "Yuni-like", he's doing it at what is supposed to be an offensive position. If the rest of the lineup were hitting, they could ride it out and hope he gets hot. I'd play Gindl out there until Braun returns, and if he looks comfortable, maybe send Davis down and get him straightened out.

[fondybrewfan]

I would probably rather play Schafer out there. Schafer is the one with the bigger overall role on the team; might as well let him get some AB's.

 

It certainly looks like LF is the one glaring weakness on the team that hopefully could be remedied at the trade deadline. I don't want to give up on Davis yet but you just can't continue going to a guy that refuses to walk and in general is having trouble making good contact.

[reillymcshane]

Though I recently defended Davis, it's becoming increasingly clear they need better production in left field. His line of .225/.248./.408 is not only very "Yuni-like", he's doing it at what is supposed to be an offensive position. If the rest of the lineup were hitting, they could ride it out and hope he gets hot. I'd play Gindl out there until Braun returns, and if he looks comfortable, maybe send Davis down and get him straightened out.

John, this is an important point. At times you can ride out a struggling hitter. But this team just isn't hitting very well. We just can't afford to do that much longer. And it's not like we have options for 3B or SS. Those positions are set. At least with Davis we have Gindl and Schafer (not great options, but passable options for the time being). And Davis can work on his issues in the minors (again, not something we have the option with for A-Ram).

 

For me it's about Davis getting his act together. Not necessarily replacing him. The guy has power and has shown he can hit big league pitching. We need that very badly. So once Braun gets back I'd rather just use Gindl and Schafer, and let Davis go to AAA and try and get back on track.

[JohnBriggs12]

Looks like Ramirez is headed to DL, so do they still send down Davis when Braun returns? Halton has been heating up if they free up Hellweg's 40 man spot maybe he should be brought back to platoon at 1B allowing full time duty at 3B for Reynolds?

[HiAndTight]

Looks like Ramirez is headed to DL, so do they still send down Davis when Braun returns? Halton has been heating up if they free up Hellweg's 40 man spot maybe he should be brought back to platoon at 1B allowing full time duty at 3B for Reynolds?

 

 

I think I'd prefer Taylor Green just taking Aram's place for the time being. But if we're going to make a move to bring a 1st basemen up, I'd rather see Hunter Morris finally given a chance. It made some sense before the injury, it makes even more sense now.