Why won't Davis take a walk?

[TooLiveBrew]

Braun & Lucroy also have good eyes at the plate. Doesn't always mean a guy will walk 100+ times in a season.

[Crash2303]

I hate this notion of taking pitches because of the count it is one of the stupid unspoken baseball rules. If you get a good pitch to swing at you better be swinging at it there is no guarantee that you will see another pitch that hittable. If you have a good or a great pitcher on the mound and they throw a pitch that is a mistake you should be swinging at it no matter if it is 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, or even 3-0. An extra base hit is worth more than a walk or even working the count only to strike out or to weekly ground out or flyout.

 

Taking pitches and working the counts can also have a cumulative effect. in an era with strict pitch counts- for most at 100 pitches- it can be extremely advantageous to take out a team's starting pitcher an inning or two early by working their pitch count. High OBP teams like the 2000s Red Sox & Yankees were extremely adept at this. there's a reason the red sox had so many come from behind wins- once they got a team's ace outta there- they really started to go to work.

 

I do however, agree, that a hitter can be disciplined and still aggressive.

[Crash2303]

Disciples of Uecker has a great break-down of our "new," 'if its good, swing at it approach'.

http://disciplesofuecker.com/for-brewers-batters-impatience-is-an-unexpected-virtue/18029

[FVBrewerFan]

it can be extremely advantageous to take out a team's starting pitcher an inning or two early by working their pitch count.

 

It can also be advantageous to knock a starting pitcher out even earlier if you swing at hitable pitches and knock the ball all over the yard.

[HiAndTight]

I hate this notion of taking pitches because of the count it is one of the stupid unspoken baseball rules. If you get a good pitch to swing at you better be swinging at it there is no guarantee that you will see another pitch that hittable. If you have a good or a great pitcher on the mound and they throw a pitch that is a mistake you should be swinging at it no matter if it is 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, or even 3-0. An extra base hit is worth more than a walk or even working the count only to strike out or to weekly ground out or flyout.

 

Taking pitches and working the counts can also have a cumulative effect. in an era with strict pitch counts- for most at 100 pitches- it can be extremely advantageous to take out a team's starting pitcher an inning or two early by working their pitch count. High OBP teams like the 2000s Red Sox & Yankees were extremely adept at this. there's a reason the red sox had so many come from behind wins- once they got a team's ace outta there- they really started to go to work.

 

I do however, agree, that a hitter can be disciplined and still aggressive.

 

 

Roenicke referenced those two teams when asked this question(about his team being too aggressive).

 

He said that he believes there is a difference in the AL and NL because of the DH vs the Pitcher hitting. That you have to be a bit more aggressive when you get good pitches because you don't want to work deep into the count only to see the pitcher come up.

 

 

But as the article above points out, his message was he wants his guys to be patient, but not to draw walks, to get good pitches. Gomez is the perfect example of this. He seems to be taking more of those bad pitches and forcing pitchers to throw more hittable pitches which has led to him becoming one of the games best players as of today.

[danzig6767]

While everyone has focused mainly just on his hitting, Davis has played a very solid LF. With him, Gomez, and Braun, the team has a pretty athletic defensive outfield.

[igor67]

Which is interesting because he was billed as mediocre at best. Much like Scooter.

[homer]

Which is interesting because he was billed as mediocre at best. Much like Scooter.

 

I think it was his arm that was always questioned.

[HiAndTight]

Which is interesting because he was billed as mediocre at best. Much like Scooter.

 

I think it was his arm that was always questioned.

 

 

I knew that his arm limited him right off the top to LF/1B, but I was also under the impression that his range was poor and that he was a poor OF'er aside from his arm.

 

But I agree, he's been a very pleasant surprise.

[The stache]

Braun prefers to hit the ball out of the park instead of walking.

 

He might strike out over 100 times a year, but he's also got a career .312 average, and .374 OBP. Pretty good eye and bat discipline if you ask me.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Davis took some pitchs today. Don't know if that had more to do with Wood being wild or if he's settling down a bit. That can only help him. Maybe he just had some jitters to work through or just needed to hit his first dinger.

[dlk9s]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about trying to get rid of Davis.

[HiAndTight]

Braun prefers to hit the ball out of the park instead of walking.

 

He might strike out over 100 times a year, but he's also got a career .312 average, and .374 OBP. Pretty good eye and bat discipline if you ask me.

 

 

Well yeah, but how many guys in baseball have Ryan Braun's talent? I do believe that his thumb is bothering him this year and is contributing to his walks being down, but apparently he's just so good it doesn't matter.

 

But guys like Khris Davis who've have walk rates around 13-15% in his minor league career to have walked just 1.2% of the time thus far, I think there's going to be a more direct correlation between his walk rate and his overall success than someone like Ryan Braun.

 

Even Gomez' walk rate has jumped up to around 8% this year.

 

Davis can still contribute without walking and he could still hit 30 HR's, hit .280 and put up a .500 SLG, but if he's going to be as good as we think/hope he can, he's going to have to get his walk rate up. But like everything else, he's only played in 20 games and I agree with AdvantageSchnieder, he looks like he's getting more comfortable and taking more pitches as of late.

[reillymcshane]

Gallardo and Estrada have as many walks as Davis.

 

1 BB in 95 ABs. Wow. I can't imagine they club will live with a .271 OBP for more than another month. At that point, you have to consider someone else.

[Warning Track Power]

If Schafer were healthy, I think he would have been taking some playing time from Davis already. Once he is off the DL, I could see Davis and Schafer falling more into a platoon role.

 

On that note, I am surprised that Schafer hasn't hit more since coming up to the Majors. A career .294/.354/.431 hitter in the minors, I was expecting Schafer to put a line something similar to his 2012 season in Nashville (.278/.332/.438) upon reaching the majors. I understand he hasn't received regular playing time since his call up but in 352 career ABs, Schafer has a line of .219/.281/.338. Is this the real Logan Schafer? Moreover, if this the real Schafer and the real Davis, do we have a need in LF or can we get by with this production?

[RobDeer 45]

I heard an interesting stat on a baseball podcast today that Davis is swinging and missing at more pitches out of the strike zone than last year. I really can't remember the stat used, maybe chase rate? Anyway, what it comes down to is he's swinging and missing at more pitches out of the zone. He really needs to chill out a bit with swinging at everything. Kind of reminding me of Corey Hart when he was struggling maybe???

[danzig6767]

If Schafer were healthy, I think he would have been taking some playing time from Davis already. Once he is off the DL, I could see Davis and Schafer falling more into a platoon role.

 

On that note, I am surprised that Schafer hasn't hit more since coming up to the Majors. A career .294/.354/.431 hitter in the minors, I was expecting Schafer to put a line something similar to his 2012 season in Nashville (.278/.332/.438) upon reaching the majors. I understand he hasn't received regular playing time since his call up but in 352 career ABs, Schafer has a line of .219/.281/.338. Is this the real Logan Schafer? Moreover, if this the real Schafer and the real Davis, do we have a need in LF or can we get by with this production?

 

In defense of Schafer, he's yet to have a chance of any consistent playing time in the majors.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Davis is perfectly fine like I said a page ago & Segura is fine also. What are you guys talking about?

[Bombers]

Gallardo and Estrada have as many walks as Davis.

 

1 BB in 95 ABs. Wow. I can't imagine they club will live with a .271 OBP for more than another month. At that point, you have to consider someone else.

His OPS is .14 points below league average from 2013. I don't think knee jerk reactions are made 1 or 2 months in. They are committed to Khris for the year in my opinion. Now, if it is July and his average dips closer to .200, they may look for a platoon mate. (But it will be hard to look past using Schaefer who albeit isn't a clear offensive upgrade - but is an option.)

 

Khris OPS vs lefties is .958 in a whopping 24 plate apperances

[logan82]

I heard an interesting stat on a baseball podcast today that Davis is swinging and missing at more pitches out of the strike zone than last year. I really can't remember the stat used, maybe chase rate? Anyway, what it comes down to is he's swinging and missing at more pitches out of the zone. He really needs to chill out a bit with swinging at everything. Kind of reminding me of Corey Hart when he was struggling maybe???

From Fangraphs

 

O-Swing% Z-Swing% Swing% O-Contact% Z-Contact% Contact% Zone%

31.1 % 74.8 % 50.4 % 55.7 % 82.7 % 73.4 % 44.2 %

39.1 % 69.6 % 54.4 % 50.8 % 75.9 % 66.9 % 50.0 %

[HiAndTight]

Davis is perfectly fine like I said a page ago & Segura is fine also. What are you guys talking about?

 

 

We're talking about how they're NOT fine. Davis' approach is nothing like what it's been coming up through the minors. He's not drawing walks and is swinging at bad pitches.

 

The same is/was true for Segura.

 

I know you like to be the optimist, and that's great. I hate people who consistently find ways to be pessimistic, but there is a difference between believing a player WILL be fine, and just flat out ignoring how they're performing at the moment and denying there is a problem when it's painfully obvious there is one.

 

 

We have won DESPITE the production we've got from Davis and Segura thus far. Hopefully they get it turned around soon.

[HiAndTight]

If Schafer were healthy, I think he would have been taking some playing time from Davis already. Once he is off the DL, I could see Davis and Schafer falling more into a platoon role.

 

On that note, I am surprised that Schafer hasn't hit more since coming up to the Majors. A career .294/.354/.431 hitter in the minors, I was expecting Schafer to put a line something similar to his 2012 season in Nashville (.278/.332/.438) upon reaching the majors. I understand he hasn't received regular playing time since his call up but in 352 career ABs, Schafer has a line of .219/.281/.338. Is this the real Logan Schafer? Moreover, if this the real Schafer and the real Davis, do we have a need in LF or can we get by with this production?

 

In defense of Schafer, he's yet to have a chance of any consistent playing time in the majors.

 

 

I'm personally pretty confident in Schafer myself. I expect the type of line that WTP suggested, .278/.332/.438 and spectacular defense in LF or RF and very good D in CF.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Davis is perfectly fine like I said a page ago & Segura is fine also. What are you guys talking about?

 

 

We're talking about how they're NOT fine. Davis' approach is nothing like what it's been coming up through the minors. He's not drawing walks and is swinging at bad pitches.

 

The same is/was true for Segura.

 

I know you like to be the optimist, and that's great. I hate people who consistently find ways to be pessimistic, but there is a difference between believing a player WILL be fine, and just flat out ignoring how they're performing at the moment and denying there is a problem when it's painfully obvious there is one.

 

 

We have won DESPITE the production we've got from Davis and Segura thus far. Hopefully they get it turned around soon.

 

This problem that you are talking about wont last, so you wont see me talking about it for either player.

[reillymcshane]

Gallardo and Estrada have as many walks as Davis.

 

1 BB in 95 ABs. Wow. I can't imagine they club will live with a .271 OBP for more than another month. At that point, you have to consider someone else.

His OPS is .14 points below league average from 2013. I don't think knee jerk reactions are made 1 or 2 months in. They are committed to Khris for the year in my opinion. Now, if it is July and his average dips closer to .200, they may look for a platoon mate. (But it will be hard to look past using Schaefer who albeit isn't a clear offensive upgrade - but is an option.)

 

Khris OPS vs lefties is .958 in a whopping 24 plate apperances

I don't think 200 ABs is a knee jerk reaction. It's pretty significant chunk of playing time. We used roughly 150 ABs from last season to determine Davis was our left fielder for 2014.

 

We roll around to June and Khris has got a .700 OPS, and the team is still in contention, you have to consider making a move. His 1% walk rate is just really weird - and disturbing. Especially considering Davis walked a lot in the minors (he was usually around 10-12%).

 

A contending team can only let a bad performing player stay in the lineup for so long. Of course, you have to have a replacement for the guy. But that's a different story.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gallardo and Estrada have as many walks as Davis.

 

1 BB in 95 ABs. Wow. I can't imagine they club will live with a .271 OBP for more than another month. At that point, you have to consider someone else.

His OPS is .14 points below league average from 2013. I don't think knee jerk reactions are made 1 or 2 months in. They are committed to Khris for the year in my opinion. Now, if it is July and his average dips closer to .200, they may look for a platoon mate. (But it will be hard to look past using Schaefer who albeit isn't a clear offensive upgrade - but is an option.)

 

Khris OPS vs lefties is .958 in a whopping 24 plate apperances

I don't think 200 ABs is a knee jerk reaction. It's pretty significant chunk of playing time. We used roughly 150 ABs from last season to determine Davis was our left fielder for 2014.

 

We roll around to June and Khris has got a .700 OPS, and the team is still in contention, you have to consider making a move. His 1% walk rate is just really weird - and disturbing. Especially considering Davis walked a lot in the minors (he was usually around 10-12%).

 

A contending team can only let a bad performing player stay in the lineup for so long. Of course, you have to have a replacement for the guy. But that's a different story.

The organization most definitely used scouting well ahead of ~150-200 PAs to make that decision. They believe in Davis's bat, and I think if they didn't, they would've made a corresponding move in the vein of signing Reynolds & Overbay ahead of Hunter Morris.