Youth Ball Contributing to Tommy John Injuries?

[splitterpfj]

I'm putting this discussion in this forum, because I want to make sure it is seen by those of you who are involved with showcases, youth ball, player development, etc.

 

They just had a roundtable discussion on MLB Network, in which they said the explosion in Tommy John surgeries among pitchers under age 25 is due to showcase tournaments, travel ball, etc.

 

They quoted Dr James Andrews, and then went around through their own analysts, and they all pretty much agreed, having kids focus on one sport as young as they do, and having them pitching to show off for scouts, coaches, etc in their attempt to attract attention is the root of the problem. One quote was, "Star athletes used to play several sports, today they focus on one sport, and these kids are pitching from February to November."

 

I have no idea if that's the case.

 

I would like to hear opinions on this, some of you work in the field, others certainly have knowledge of it. Do you think the current system of travel ball, showcases, etc, is hurting young arms?

[reillymcshane]

There's an article on Grantland that talks about this same thing. I think they have the same quote.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/matt-moore-baseball-tommy-john-surgery-historic-rate/

 

Essentially, we're training kids to be showcase warriors. We're teaching them to throw harder, and at a younger age. Kids focus on baseball, playing it 12 months out of the year, putting more wear and tear on the arm than kids did in previous generations.

[TheCrew07]

I had a post with all kinds of examples from my past interactions, but I'm going to go a different route.

 

I don't necessarily believe showcases are the problem, I think specializing and playing year round is the problem. There are far too many well intentioned but selfish and narrow minded people involved in athletics from parents to coaches. They simply don't have the big picture and are viewing things through a very small window; teaching kids poor techniques, not understanding the injury risks, thinking that playing a sport year round will make them *that* much better, and ultimately riding them too hard or far in pursuit of goal, team orientated or not.

 

People have been throwing wrong with poor mechanics for a hundred years but in the past our kids were encouraged to play multiple sports, so their arms got a break from the incredibly unergonomic motion of a throwing a ball overhand. Now that we have ill informed adults promoting specialization you have kids playing a single sport all year round. In the case of of baseball, the arm and ligaments never get an extended break so they don't get time to rest and rehabilitate themselves. The wear and tear just builds up over time and too many kids are having to go under the knife way too young.

 

I still find it a tad amazing that QBs can throw a much heavier ball, making over 60+ throws a day in addition to their warm-up, but you rarely have shoulder or elbow issues and yet baseball won't get on board with the idea that maybe they've been doing something wrong all along. There is a right way and wrong way to throw a ball, and most people coaching these young athletes who are playing year round simply don't know enough to teach them properly. Poor mechanics coupled with specializing and throwing year round is the root cause here.

 

There are literally at least a dozen reasons why pushing any kid, male or female, to specialize in any sport is the wrong thing to do. If they are that unique an athlete someone is going to identify them later on and they'll have a chance to specialize in college. I personally have always pushed our boys and girls to play 3 sports, to be active in sports (but different sports with different players and coaches) during the school year, but take time in summer to unwind and just be a kid. I understand in certain families a 3 sport dynamic isn't possible, especially with the modern "pay to play" model even at public schools. However, as adults we have the responsibility to push our children to be in situations where they can be challenged, not just where they feel "most comfortable".

 

Over the years I've witnessed far too many well intentioned parents and coaches pushing kids to specialize who had no real chance of getting to the next level. The reasons always vary but the core issues are essentially the same in every case. The irony here is that pitchers can be the most unathletic athletes in professional sports... Ben Sheets could hardly run to 1st, he ran with a waddle, but he had a big arm and could throw strikes. If you have the arm, you don't have to throw year round, you're velocity will come as you age and someone, somewhere is going to find you.

 

If I were scout I would do my due diligence, but I'd be much more interested in multi sport athletes, and that's why I'm usually excited when the Brewers draft that kind of young man, even if they don't make it like a Mark Rogers. I'd want competitors and athletes first, letting the chips fall where they may with the rest.

[HiAndTight]

Perfect example of the idiocy of some of these coaches. I don't know if this kid is a pro prospect or not, but either way I find it asinine and ridiculous...as did David Price and THEE Tommy John by the way.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140515/SPORTS05/305150111/Tommy-John-David-Price-lash-out-high-school-coach-allowing-pitcher-throw-194-pitches

 

 

I also agree that the specialization in sports is hurting baseball players. What's wrong with good athletes having fun, playing basketball, football, wrestling, whatever it is they enjoy? I've coached some kids who loved playing multiple sports but their parents decided that they were going to focus on one sport so they could be great. One parent took his kid out of Basketball and Football, two sports he enjoyed more strictly because he was a lefty. Wasn't even one of our 4-5 best pitchers(which turned out to be the coaches fault of course). Give these kids arms a rest. Put the ball down after summer and play another sport. Pick it back up in March. If you want to play catch or throw from time to time in between, fine, but you don't need to be throwing every day of the week year round.

[DHonks]

I have no problem with the 194 pitches based on what the reports say. This kid says he's a non-prospect and is hoping for a chance in DII. If he were a DI signee or draft prospect, this would have been a major concern. But I'll say good for the kid.

 

I didn't even play in HS, just up till 15 in little league. When my little league would waive the innings limit at the end of each season because of the required doubleheaders (due to Wisconsin weather) it was not uncommon for me to throw both games of a doubleheader. I didn't play in HS and didn't play in college. But it gave me pride that I could do everything for the team.

[DHonks]

I also will say I agree about the specialization in sports. I don't know if it happens in WI these days. When I graduated high school in 1999, the top athletes all played 2-4 sports. It shocked me when I started working in education in Arizona and saw kids specializing in golf, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. I coach HS girls golf and am really proud that two of my top golfers are softball players (one has a full ride to play for Univ of Arizona and is likely to win her 2nd AZ female athlete of the year award already despite being a junior) and the other is a legit softball prospect getting college looks. The physical requirements of other sports may balance out the demands of their primary sports on their bodies. Plus, the mental break is healthy. And lastly, I am confident my golfers are better softball players because of golf, and also better golfers because of softball.

[nate82]

Pitchers need to throw the ball around more actually. Throwing a football around is probably a better idea though as your arm is able to stop the unnatural movement of throwing the ball as a football weighs more and thus creates more drag and it allows your arm to stop more naturally unlike a baseball which does not. Pitchers also need to throw the ball around more in the infield throwing the ball around in the infield a day after pitching is going to allow for muscle memory and will actually relax the muscles quicker.

 

The more you do something the more efficient you become at it. So more repetitions is actually a good thing though I wouldn't suggest throwing from a mound every day you have to give your arm a rest. Throwing away from the mound which is less taxing on your arm is a better idea than completely not throwing the next day.

 

There is also a flaw in how baseball players train especially pitchers. The majority of training is centered around football which doesn't really work with baseball especially for a pitcher. Pitchers are focusing way to much on muscles and throwing harder when they should really be focusing on dexterity training than with building muscles and being able to throw harder. Pitchers do not need to throw hard or even harder to be able to get hitters out a pitcher who can sit in the low to mid 90's is just as effective as a pitcher who throws in the mid to upper 90's. The fascination of pitchers who can throw 95-100 is to blame here as much as high pitch counts are to blame.

[TheCrew07]

Pitchers need to throw the ball around more actually.

 

This is categorically false. Not only do the tendons not get a chance to heal and mature with constant throwing, opposing muscle groups aren't adequately developed which is also a significant issue. Why do opposing groups matter? In the same way that female athletes are at a much greater risk for ACL injuries due to a different lower body structure than men. If you strengthen all of the muscle groups around a joint you can significantly reduce but not eliminate the risk of injury. Also just like the knee in female athletes where proper strength building starts in the hip, for pitchers proper strength buildings starts in the shoulder.

 

Throwing a football does not create more arm drag than a throwing a baseball, I can see where one would conceptually assume that based on the weight, but it's not true. Regardless "arm drag" is never good a thing, I've yet to see anyone who's arm action was out in front of the rest of their body movement, however most pitchers who whip the ball down to 6 o'clock and then all the way back around have significant arm drag because the arm action is out of sync with what the lower body and core are doing.

 

The biggest difference with the added weight of the football is that the farther out from a pure over the top delivery you get, the more stress you feel through the elbow. I'm a firm believer in moving the arm action to 12 o'clock and keeping everything in a single plane of motion, if the arm is in sync with the step you essentially removing any horizontal muscle triggering and can just focus on distance, or up and down for a pitcher. This would be very similar to any good shooter in basketball, they all have a vertical shooting arm elbow to wrist and release straight at the hoop. Players who fly their elbow off to the side are never going to be as accurate or as good because their muscles have to adjust for movement in the addition planes. This is why 3/4 type pitchers have a hard time repeating their delivery and it takes tens of 1000s of repetitions to get it down. Not only is it difficult to maintain the same arm slot for each pitch the body has to correct for a much larger number of factors each time as well.

 

Then if you add in those pitchers who fall off hard to either side of the mound not only are their bodies compensating for the arm movements, but the body is also compensating for the centrifugal force of the rounded out motion as well. It's no wonder most of those guys don't locate well and end up in the bullpen, from a physics standpoint they've created the most difficult environment to succeed in that is humanly possible.

 

Poor mechanics will obviously have an impact on TJ surgeries, but again people have been throwing wrong for a 100 years. This issue is almost entirely about specialization at too early an age, I could literally run out of the 60000 character limit posting on everything that is wrong with specialization prior to college.

 

Once again if I'm a Scouting Director I'm looking for athletic and coachable multi-sport athletes through-out the entire draft. Sometimes you'll get Brent Brewer or Mark Rogers and sometimes you'll get Tyrone Taylor and Jake Odorizzi, I'm willing to take the bad with the good...

[HiAndTight]

Pitchers need to throw the ball around more actually. Throwing a football around is probably a better idea though as your arm is able to stop the unnatural movement of throwing the ball as a football weighs more and thus creates more drag and it allows your arm to stop more naturally unlike a baseball which does not. Pitchers also need to throw the ball around more in the infield throwing the ball around in the infield a day after pitching is going to allow for muscle memory and will actually relax the muscles quicker.

 

The more you do something the more efficient you become at it. So more repetitions is actually a good thing though I wouldn't suggest throwing from a mound every day you have to give your arm a rest. Throwing away from the mound which is less taxing on your arm is a better idea than completely not throwing the next day.

 

There is also a flaw in how baseball players train especially pitchers. The majority of training is centered around football which doesn't really work with baseball especially for a pitcher. Pitchers are focusing way to much on muscles and throwing harder when they should really be focusing on dexterity training than with building muscles and being able to throw harder. Pitchers do not need to throw hard or even harder to be able to get hitters out a pitcher who can sit in the low to mid 90's is just as effective as a pitcher who throws in the mid to upper 90's. The fascination of pitchers who can throw 95-100 is to blame here as much as high pitch counts are to blame.

 

 

No, this is absolutely, 100 percent false. Throwing a baseball is an unnatural motion. Kids who's bodies are still developing(we're talking about 12-18) absolutely do not need to throw more.

 

The more you throw with maximum effort, the more you throw when you're tired, the more you're damaging the ligaments and tendons in your elbow. Muscle memory has absolutely nothing to do with it in the way you're talking about it. You're talking about after pitching, throwing the ball around the IF. Muscle memory can help with injuries in that it can help pitchers develop good mechanics and repeat their delivery, but they're not doing that throwing the ball from 3rd to 1st. In fact, you're throwing from different arm angles often times depending on position.

 

Throwing a football can certainly strengthen your arm.

 

 

And I just vehemetly disagree with your final paragraph. Pitchers who can throw in the upper 90's are absolutely more effective than pitchers who throw in the low 90's, all things being equal. Using your logic, at what point does it not become beneficial to throw the ball harder? Is throwing 90-93 as effective as throwing 87-90?

 

No, of course not. Being able to throw 100 MPH gives the hitter that much less time to see the ball, react, and if you're worried about a 100 MPH fastball, you're far more prone to getting fooled by other pitches.

 

The majority of training is centered around football which doesn't really work with baseball especially for a pitcher. Pitchers are focusing way to much on muscles and throwing harder when they should really be focusing on dexterity training than with building muscles and being able to throw harder.

 

I also don't understand this. In what ways do you believe that pitchers in general are training like football players, which is what I assume you meant? High level pitchers and pitching coaches certainly aren't training their pitchers to lift like football players. At least now when it comes their arms. They are, and absolutely SHOULD be training like football players...if by that you mean using free weights and trying to get bigger.

 

Building your legs is almost as important as building up your arm strength, as is building up your core. The torque, the power you need from your lower half....the same exercises that build the explosiveness you look for in football work in baseball. Squats, lunges, any one of about 100 core workouts. And free weights are better than machines the majority of the time as you work more muscle groups as you need your stabilizing muscles. Incidentally, using a belt when squatting is also a bad idea unless you're doing heavy weights as it doesn't help build your core. Your lower back muscles.

 

 

Obviously nobody has perfected how to best train pitchers yet, but there are some things that are well known things to avoid. A young kid who's developing should certainly limit how much he throws when he's tired as that's when you put the most strain on your arm. They should have their pitches and innings and just how much they throw limited. They should take long periods of time off as the very action of throwing a ball overhand with maximum effort tears the muscle fibers in your arm and they need time to heal. The younger kids should throw primarily fastballs, changeup's and do little more than play around with breaking balls.

 

When they're out of HS, and their body has matured, well, there are different schools of thought here. Long tossing from 150 feet moving back to 200-250 feet, throwing a football as you mentioned and throwing more MIGHT work. I know Nolan Ryan endorses some of these. However I think he was simply a freak and is the exception to the rule.

[HiAndTight]

I have no problem with the 194 pitches based on what the reports say. This kid says he's a non-prospect and is hoping for a chance in DII. If he were a DI signee or draft prospect, this would have been a major concern. But I'll say good for the kid.

 

I didn't even play in HS, just up till 15 in little league. When my little league would waive the innings limit at the end of each season because of the required doubleheaders (due to Wisconsin weather) it was not uncommon for me to throw both games of a doubleheader. I didn't play in HS and didn't play in college. But it gave me pride that I could do everything for the team.

 

 

He's still causing serious damage to his arm by throwing such an absurd number of pitches. And if he's not a true prospect, then he's likely not going to have a TJ surgery or anything if he does tear his ulnar ligament. Or he's not going to be able to pitch in Division 2. I've spent a lot of years around HS baseball and I don't think we ever took into consideration if our best pitchers were D-1 prospects, or potential draft picks. An injury is an injury, and throwing almost 200 pitches is just irresponsible.

 

At least that's my opinion on that matter. This may have been the highlight of the kids athletic career and baseball may be an afterthought moving forward. I've just seen WAY too many coaches who pitch kids way too long, and at ages 12-14, throwing far too many curve balls which stresses the elbow even more.

 

 

The injuries from pitching can be extremely painful later in life. I know guys who weren't major league pitchers who can't straighten their arm, or who have a lot of pain from baseball injuries. And because they weren't Jose Fernandez, they didn't have those injuries treated and then rehab them.

[splitterpfj]

The one that really ticked me off is this...

 

A friend of mine, Jalal Leach, is a scout for the Yankees, he and his brother run a successful baseball academy in Sacramento. They take teams to a lot of showcase events, and they've helped quite a few kids get into college and pro ball - these are guys who are out there, in the game.

 

Two years ago, Jalal called me to say he'd seen a kid with a TJ scar on his elbow, so he went and talked to him about it, and found out the kid was 15. He'd blown his elbow out, throwing the split-finger, which he'd been taught by a local coach, when he was 14-years-old.

 

That's just wrong. That pitch is hell on an arm, everyone knows it's a great pitch if you can command it, but it's also well known that you're putting big strain on your elbow when you throw it. Teaching a 14-year-old a pitch like that is a classic case of a coach trying to win games this season, and looking for an edge.

 

Bert Blyleven, who had the best curveball of his generation, and who rode that pitch into the Hall of Fame, used to talk a lot about how he would not show a kid how to throw the curve until the kid was at least 16. He would say kids younger than that simply were not developed and strong enough, because you're still growing, etc, so he simply would not show them the pitch until age 16.

 

I don't know what "typical" is these days for this stuff, but I think a young kid should be throwing basic pitches....fastball, change, etc, and working into these other pitches as he grows.

[homer]

Any youth pitcher worth his salt should be able to get guys out with nothing other than a fastball and a change-up. Teaching a kid to use a splitter is down right criminal.

 

And I don't think we can categorize any theory as being 100% false since we don't know for sure what is causing all the TJ issues this year. All we have are theories. For all we know, youth baseball has nothing to do with TJ. It might be something else like a lower mound or dumb luck. It's quite possible that this year is an aberration. I guess we won't know until we have the benefit of hindsight.

 

I'd be curious to know if "catastrophic" pitching injuries are more common now than they were in the 50's and 60's. You always hear about an old timer that pitched in the minors until "his arm blew out". There was no TJ surgery for guys in that situation and since it happened in the minors you never heard of the guy at all.

[jerichoholicninja]

I just finished my 7th year as a high school baseball coach working specifically with pitchers. In my time I've only had one shoulder/arm injury to a pitcher and that was from a player who dislocated his shoulder playing summer league basketball and then played a season of QB followed by a half season of basketball before finally seeing a doctor and having surgery because of the pain. Baseball had nothing to do with it. I'm not going to say I have any answers or that I'm doing things the correct way but just that I've made lots of observations over the years.

 

Most often my players who are constantly having sore shoulders and elbows are my football players. The guys who are bulked up gym rats. Having a big upper body does not make you a better pitcher. It reduces flexibility and leads to sore/tired muscles from overuse. I had two guys a few years ago who practically lived in the weight room. One was a pitcher and the other an OF. I told them at the beginning of the season that they can't lift during the season like they do the rest of the year or they will be sore the whole season. Of course they didn't listen to me and were sore all year. Despite great mechanics and being in fantastic physical shape, we were lucky to get 7 innings a week out of the pitcher because his arm was pretty much shot after pitching one game. So yes, I feel pitchers training like football players is a bad thing and probably leading to injuries. Pitchers should focus on core strength, flexibility, and aerobic conditioning. Stay off the weights.

 

As for specialization, is it really the adults that are pushing this? As a kid I didn't want to play any sport other than baseball. If I knew that spending 365 days on baseball would have given me a shot at D1 or the Majors, I would have done it. For pitchers, the problem is that the radar gun rules. Pitchers are being trained to throw hard, not pitch. Until that changes I don't think you're going to see the number of injuries go down.

[HiAndTight]

I just finished my 7th year as a high school baseball coach working specifically with pitchers. In my time I've only had one shoulder/arm injury to a pitcher and that was from a player who dislocated his shoulder playing summer league basketball and then played a season of QB followed by a half season of basketball before finally seeing a doctor and having surgery because of the pain. Baseball had nothing to do with it. I'm not going to say I have any answers or that I'm doing things the correct way but just that I've made lots of observations over the years.

 

Most often my players who are constantly having sore shoulders and elbows are my football players. The guys who are bulked up gym rats. Having a big upper body does not make you a better pitcher. It reduces flexibility and leads to sore/tired muscles from overuse. I had two guys a few years ago who practically lived in the weight room. One was a pitcher and the other an OF. I told them at the beginning of the season that they can't lift during the season like they do the rest of the year or they will be sore the whole season. Of course they didn't listen to me and were sore all year. Despite great mechanics and being in fantastic physical shape, we were lucky to get 7 innings a week out of the pitcher because his arm was pretty much shot after pitching one game. So yes, I feel pitchers training like football players is a bad thing and probably leading to injuries. Pitchers should focus on core strength, flexibility, and aerobic conditioning. Stay off the weights.

 

As for specialization, is it really the adults that are pushing this? As a kid I didn't want to play any sport other than baseball. If I knew that spending 365 days on baseball would have given me a shot at D1 or the Majors, I would have done it. For pitchers, the problem is that the radar gun rules. Pitchers are being trained to throw hard, not pitch. Until that changes I don't think you're going to see the number of injuries go down.

 

 

Having a flat rule that you can't lift during the season is not only not going to solve the problem, but is going to stunt their development. I went pretty deep into my objection and emphasized what "football lifting," they should be doing(which is just basic strength and conditioning to make athletes stronger and more explosive). I specifically said they should be focusing on doing a tone of core work, squats, using free weights, etc..etc...I also clearly made a distinction between upper body lifting and building up your core and legs. I guess the idea of "football lifting," is a foreign concept to me because building your body for the explosion needed is just an athletic thing. I've coached HS sports for 13 years now, and have helped run our schools weight room for a good chunk of that. Part of the problem is not understanding how to lift or when to lift or what exercises to do. We've had several kids who've played baseball at the next level and have been in the D-1 state tournament several times and we also haven't had any kids with major injuries. But our best pitchers have also played basketball, football or Wrestling.

 

Specialization is absolutely a HUGE and maybe THEE key contributor to injuries from pitching. Kids arms need a chance to heal, to rest. Their muscle fibers need to heal. This is why whatever lifting program their on, they shouldn't be doing it the day before games and certainly not the day of games. And they should at the very least tone down their workouts on their upper body and go to lighter weight, higher reps.

 

And I can't speak to the years you've coached baseball, but in my district there is quite a bit of money and SOME of these parents send these kids to camps, hire former big league pitchers to work with them, play fall ball in wooden bat leagues. I myself played 75 games a summer when I was younger and that was a while ago now. Kids from THAT traveling team hurt their arms. One had to miss his entire Jr. season when he was being scouted to have surgery. He was 6'3 185 and threw in the upper 80's as a Jr. Another was throwing 80 MPH as a Freshmen, hurt his arm and couldn't throw 80 MPH by the time he was a Sr and never pitched for us again. I caught and pitched very little. They need to put the ball down.

 

And you don't get sore from lifting if you lift on a regular basis. You get sore from lifting on an irregular basis. But even how they lift needs to be taught correctly. Kids are worried about how much they can lift and stupid things like cheating on your bench by not going all the way down through a full range of motion(lifting using a full range of motion applies to all lifting). So does an proper warm up.

 

If you're going to lift during the season, you can do the exact same leg, back and core workouts you do for any other type of training. You need to pull back on the bench, curls, upright rows, and focus on lower intensity shoulder exercises and flexibility. I think a big part of the problem is just ignorance regarding lifting.

 

And finally, throwing hard isn't the issue here. Radar gun readings ARE important. Do you see guys who throw 85 MPH going 1st overall, or do you see guys with mid 90 fastballs going 1st? The idea that you have to pick between throwing hard and learning how to pitch....the two aren't mutually exclusive. Why are words like "projectibility," thrown around with young lanky pitchers? Because teams hope they learn how to pitch or because teams hope they add velocity as they get bigger and STRONGER. "Learning how to pitch," isn't going to happen in HS for the best pitchers, the professional type prospects, the D-1 prospects, because unless their from SoCal or Florida, the competition they're facing should be low enough that a good fastball and marginal curve should be allow them to dominate.

 

But if you're teaching kids to throw splitters as has been mentioned above, or having 12-16 year olds throwing year round and throwing curve balls and sliders, nothing else is going to hurt a kid as much as that. The splitter thing probably pisses me off more than having a kid throw 194 pitches in a game as that is just ignorant and irresponsible.

[HiAndTight]

The one that really ticked me off is this...

 

A friend of mine, Jalal Leach, is a scout for the Yankees, he and his brother run a successful baseball academy in Sacramento. They take teams to a lot of showcase events, and they've helped quite a few kids get into college and pro ball - these are guys who are out there, in the game.

 

Two years ago, Jalal called me to say he'd seen a kid with a TJ scar on his elbow, so he went and talked to him about it, and found out the kid was 15. He'd blown his elbow out, throwing the split-finger, which he'd been taught by a local coach, when he was 14-years-old.

 

That's just wrong. That pitch is hell on an arm, everyone knows it's a great pitch if you can command it, but it's also well known that you're putting big strain on your elbow when you throw it. Teaching a 14-year-old a pitch like that is a classic case of a coach trying to win games this season, and looking for an edge.

 

Bert Blyleven, who had the best curveball of his generation, and who rode that pitch into the Hall of Fame, used to talk a lot about how he would not show a kid how to throw the curve until the kid was at least 16. He would say kids younger than that simply were not developed and strong enough, because you're still growing, etc, so he simply would not show them the pitch until age 16.

 

I don't know what "typical" is these days for this stuff, but I think a young kid should be throwing basic pitches....fastball, change, etc, and working into these other pitches as he grows.

 

It's wrong, it's ridiculous and it's an example of these parents trying to live vicariously through these kids. Who the hell cares if you win a tournament in LaCrosse of Dubuque if you're the COACH of kids?

 

 

I take it back, pitching year round is the second biggest problem IMO. Stupidity and ignorance about how to train and what to throw by adults is the biggest. To these kids every game is the most important. They need adults to reign them in and help them realize just how irrelevant they are in the big picture(in a way that still motivates them to play hard, but not put themselves in danger).