Tyler Thornburg

[DoubleSwitch]

Wow he's looked really impressive lately. I know some wanted to see him starting in AAA, but I think he's shown he's one of the better arms on the team and I'm sure he's much rather be in the MIL pen rather than the Nashville rotation. Also nice to see that Roenicke is willing to let him go multiple innings. What has really stuck out to me is how he's using his changeup. I don't follow the farm a closely as some here, but from watching him last year and reading scouting reports I got the idea he was mostly a fastball/curveball guy who threw a change every now and then to keep guys honest. One of the reasons I wasn't bullish on him over the offseason was because I didn't think that curveball was good enough for him to lean on and be consistently successful. I know it's only been six innings, but his change looks like a plus offering to me, and that completely changes his profile as a pitcher and my confidence in his future in the rotation.

 

For those of you who have watched him develop, has he always had that pitch and now he's just got the confidence to use it in big spots? Or, did he develop a new weapon over the offseason? Either way it's great to see.

[phnxcrew]

Since entering the minors thornburg's stat line has be ridiculous. Last season I believe he simply got screwed over and let it get to him in AAA which is why they kept him on the big league club. His initial comparison was to tim lincecum (Cy young version) and I believe that. Personally I would much rather have him in the rotation than estrada given his potential. From what I watched in the minors he's always had control of all of his pitches.

[RobDeer 45]

He's straight butter right now! With him pitching this well out of the pen, do we try to keep him some what stretched out? There are always times in the year where you need more starters, so is he the guy? Kind of a tough call because he's been doing so well in high leverage situations.

[TooLiveBrew]

Since entering the minors thornburg's stat line has be ridiculous. Last season I believe he simply got screwed over and let it get to him in AAA which is why they kept him on the big league club. His initial comparison was to tim lincecum (Cy young version) and I believe that. Personally I would much rather have him in the rotation than estrada given his potential. From what I watched in the minors he's always had control of all of his pitches.

Physically, sure. But his stuff isn't even close to what Lincecum's was at that point in his career.

 

That said, he's done very well so far, & I still agree with the decision the org. made to keep him at the MLB level. It was great to see Roenicke cut him loose for two innings last night!

[JohnBriggs12]

The Brewers are using the same formula with Thornburg that the Cardinals used last year with Joe Kelly. Thornburg was arguably the most impressive starter the last 6 weeks of 2013 much like Kelly was late in 2012 for St. Louis. But both got caught up in numbers. Last year Kelly started out in the Cardinal pen and was very valuable there. Once a rotation spot opened up, they didn't worry about his not being stretched out, they stuck him in there, maybe watched his pitch count for the first couple but he seamlessly picked right up.

 

I love how Thornburg has matured as a pitcher. He's got the makeup to handle any role. I would expect any time a rotation spot opens up, he will fill it. In the meantime, they have guy in the pen that can go short or long.

[MillerParkSouth]

He's been really good this year so far, I like how he's keeping the ball in the ballpark too. Good thing we didn't trade him for Ike Davis!

[brwrsfan]

Has he always thrown this hard? Maybe my memory is going, but I don't recall him throwing this hard. Last night almost all his FB were in the 94-95 MPH range and his curveball has had a nice sharp bite to it.

[Warning Track Power]

He's been really good this year so far, I like how he's keeping the ball in the ballpark too. Good thing we didn't trade him for Ike Davis!

I still want Ike Davis in Milwaukee as the LH option at 1B but....AMEN!!

[TooLiveBrew]

Has he always thrown this hard? Maybe my memory is going, but I don't recall him throwing this hard. Last night almost all his FB were in the 94-95 MPH range and his curveball has had a nice sharp bite to it.

Yes, he's always had this kind of velocity. But as a starter, he has to conserve energy a bit more, so his FB velocity was more in the 90-92 range. As a reliever, he can cut loose more.

[Thurston Fluff]

Trade him while his value is at it's peak!

[monty57]

I wanted him in the rotation, and thought he was good enough that we didn't need to spend on Garza, so I've been fairly high on him. However, once Garza was signed, I wanted Thornburg starting in AAA for two reasons:

 

1) To keep him stretched out as a starter. We will need more than five starting pitchers this year, so I wanted Thronburg to be able to step in when someone goes down. As it now stands, he will probably still get the call, but that will mean that he will be unavailable from the pen prior to the start (possibly keeping the pen short-handed) and he will only go 2-3 innings in his start, draining the pen when he starts. He won't be fully stretched out for a few starts, and that will be hard on the bullpen.

 

2) I figured with the number of lefties in the pen, one (Wang) who will never be used, Thronburg would be overused. Before the season, I guessed that if he stayed in the pen all season he would get around 81 appearances, some for multiple innings. That could be really tough on a promising young arm. If he continues to pitch well, and if the Brewers keep winning, I have little doubt that Roenicke will put the Brewers' winning in 2014 over Thornburg's future health, and will put him out there every chance he gets.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wanted him in the rotation, and thought he was good enough that we didn't need to spend on Garza, so I've been fairly high on him. However, once Garza was signed, I wanted Thornburg starting in AAA for two reasons:

 

1) To keep him stretched out as a starter. We will need more than five starting pitchers this year, so I wanted Thronburg to be able to step in when someone goes down. As it now stands, he will probably still get the call, but that will mean that he will be unavailable from the pen prior to the start (possibly keeping the pen short-handed) and he will only go 2-3 innings in his start, draining the pen when he starts. He won't be fully stretched out for a few starts, and that will be hard on the bullpen.

 

2) I figured with the number of lefties in the pen, one (Wang) who will never be used, Thronburg would be overused. Before the season, I guessed that if he stayed in the pen all season he would get around 81 appearances, some for multiple innings. That could be really tough on a promising young arm. If he continues to pitch well, and if the Brewers keep winning, I have little doubt that Roenicke will put the Brewers' winning in 2014 over Thornburg's future health, and will put him out there every chance he gets.

I'd agree if he hadn't already proven himself at AAA & (in a small sample that also passed the eye test) MLB. He needs to be facing MLB hitters, and is a massive help to the MLB club prior to the time he'll inevitably be needed as a SP. For me, all that greatly outweighs the baggage of him not being stretched out right away. If he's hurting the team indirectly later on by not being stretched out, he'll surely have offset that & more by pitching effectively from the 'pen.

[brewcrewdue80]

This concern about Thornburg not being stretched out to Spot Start/take over a Rotation spot in case of injury? Remember Hand/Figaro/Gorzo getting starts last year?

Figaro on 2days rest went 84pitches, had 4 days rest, replaced Fiers in a game for 28pitches, then Started every 5th day for 4 more Starts at:93,88,94, and 75(was shelled)

Donovan Hand had 7starts His days off and then Starting Pitch counts went:

5days rest 52pitches. Had a Relief appearance 3days later then 2more days rest 64pitch start. 5days rest 86pitch start.

3 Relief Apps between the next 16days then with 2days rest a 58pitch Start. 4days rest a 79pitch start. 5days rest a 92pitch start. 4days rest a 107pitch start which he was then put back in the Pen.

Gorzo had a Spot start on 3days rest in June 58pitches. Then in July he was called upon to start again first on 2days rest at 83pitches. 4days rest at 84pitches. 9days rest(ASbreak) at 90pitches. 4days rest at 83pitches. A Relief AP on 5days rest. Then starting again 7days rest to 95pitches, 5days rest 87pitches, 4days rest 79pitches, 6days rest 99pitches.

 

What does all that show me? To me it seems that Thornburg would be allowed his first start to go around 55-65pitches. By his second he's already stretched out to go 80+ and the 3rd he'd probably go 90-100 if needed.

I don't get the concern about needing him to stay stretched out in AAA if he's only going to miss 30 pitches his first turn back from normal and around a dozen pitches his 2nd time back. So 45pitches would be all we're missing out from him in 2 starts.

Meanwhile, he's a major factor out of the bullpen(likely instilling confidence) and keeping his Innings pitched down.

It all adds up to a positive having Thornburg on the team's roster. And it's another reason why I'm optimistic about this team, because the Bullpen options are better with Smith/Thornburg than with who we had last year in their place. That's huge imo in the big picture.

 

Edit add: I'm also not so sure that Thornburg has a SP role if/when the 1st Brewers Rotation spot opens. As a Spot Starter maybe but for DL purposes, I'm going to think Nelson is the call-up who being in the AAA will be stretched out. The bullpen gets zero shakeup that way.

[Roderick]

This concern about Thornburg not being stretched out to Spot Start/take over a Rotation spot in case of injury? Remember Hand/Figaro/Gorzo getting starts last year?

Figaro on 2days rest went 84pitches, had 4 days rest, replaced Fiers in a game for 28pitches, then Started every 5th day for 4 more Starts at:93,88,94, and 75(was shelled)

Donovan Hand had 7starts His days off and then Starting Pitch counts went:

5days rest 52pitches. Had a Relief appearance 3days later then 2more days rest 64pitch start. 5days rest 86pitch start.

3 Relief Apps between the next 16days then with 2days rest a 58pitch Start. 4days rest a 79pitch start. 5days rest a 92pitch start. 4days rest a 107pitch start which he was then put back in the Pen.

Gorzo had a Spot start on 3days rest in June 58pitches. Then in July he was called upon to start again first on 2days rest at 83pitches. 4days rest at 84pitches. 9days rest(ASbreak) at 90pitches. 4days rest at 83pitches. A Relief AP on 5days rest. Then starting again 7days rest to 95pitches, 5days rest 87pitches, 4days rest 79pitches, 6days rest 99pitches.

 

What does all that show me? To me it seems that Thornburg would be allowed his first start to go around 55-65pitches. By his second he's already stretched out to go 80+ and the 3rd he'd probably go 90-100 if needed.

I don't get the concern about needing him to stay stretched out in AAA if he's only going to miss 30 pitches his first turn back from normal and around a dozen pitches his 2nd time back. So 45pitches would be all we're missing out from him in 2 starts.

Meanwhile, he's a major factor out of the bullpen(likely instilling confidence) and keeping his Innings pitched down.

It all adds up to a positive having Thornburg on the team's roster. And it's another reason why I'm optimistic about this team, because the Bullpen options are better with Smith/Thornburg than with who we had last year in their place. That's huge imo in the big picture.

 

I'll just say a two things with regards to stretched out.

 

Each pitcher is different. And one may surmise in some instances that a player that the team doesn't have a big investment in may get the rented mule treatment - not saying that is the case for Figaro or Hand, but it may be a factor when considering how fast to up Thornburg's pitch count.

[FVBrewerFan]

Sometimes it's very easy to forget there is almost no science to support how a pitcher needs to be stretched out, number of pitches in an outing, innings per year, etc. Every body is different, and reacts differently. Somehow 100 pitches has become a magic number, with nothing to support it. But we like round numbers.

[homer]

Sometimes it's very easy to forget there is almost no science to support how a pitcher needs to be stretched out, number of pitches in an outing, innings per year, etc. Every body is different, and reacts differently. Somehow 100 pitches has become a magic number, with nothing to support it. But we like round numbers.

 

 

I prefer 89 or 144 since both are part of the Fibonacci Sequence. So either you leave the game in the 7th inning, or you go until you drop.

[DoubleSwitch]

Looked great again out there tonight

[danzig6767]

I wanted him in the rotation, and thought he was good enough that we didn't need to spend on Garza, so I've been fairly high on him. However, once Garza was signed, I wanted Thornburg starting in AAA for two reasons:

 

2) I figured with the number of lefties in the pen, one (Wang) who will never be used, Thronburg would be overused. Before the season, I guessed that if he stayed in the pen all season he would get around 81 appearances, some for multiple innings. That could be really tough on a promising young arm. If he continues to pitch well, and if the Brewers keep winning, I have little doubt that Roenicke will put the Brewers' winning in 2014 over Thornburg's future health, and will put him out there every chance he gets.

 

I'd worry more about Thornburg getting overused if there weren't multiple other high quality options in the pen, especially if Henderson gets back to his old self. Because of that, Thornburg won't have to get set into being one of those guys who gets thrown out there in nearly every close game.

 

That said, it's stating the obvious that sooner than later Wang has to start being used simply to eat up bullpen innings and that's even more important if Duke gets used mainly as just a 1-2 batter lefty specialist.

[adambr2]

Anyone still interested in trading him for Ike Davis? I'm sure not.

[logan82]

What do you mean still interested? I didn't think anyone was interested in doing that in the first place.

[adambr2]

What do you mean still interested? I didn't think anyone was interested in doing that in the first place.

 

There were. It was probably only one or two, though.

 

Regardless, I think we're likely to get as much out of Reynolds as we could have gotten out of Davis anyway.

[torts]

What do you mean still interested? I didn't think anyone was interested in doing that in the first place.

 

There were. It was probably only one or two, though.

 

Regardless, I think we're likely to get as much out of Reynolds as we could have gotten out of Davis anyway.

 

agreed. so glad we didnt do that trade on so many levels (thornburg's talent; no roadblock at 1B after this season)

[fondybrewfan]

He is such an asset to the bullpen right now; glad they decided to keep him up here rather than stretched out at AAA. There doesn't appear to be a long term rotation spot opening up anytime soon (2014 or 2015) so it appears he is now a permanent bullpen guy.

 

If someone in the rotation goes down I think it is probably very likely they go to AAA rather than trying to fill the gap with Smith and Thornburg. They have been so good in the bullpen you have to leave them there.

[TheCrew07]

They have been so good in the bullpen you have to leave them there.

 

May I ask why? Starters are more valuable than relievers, wouldn't we want our best pitchers pitching as many innings as possible?

[Fear The Chorizo]

There are plenty of examples of teams who have been able to get their young arms big league experience starting from the pen, before transitioning them back to being starters. The Twins and Braves come to mine right away, along with the Rays (didn't Price initially close for them or serve as a late inning guy?). I have no problem with these guys in the pen, as long as it keeps their innings load in check and they don't get run into the ground with consecutive appearances. If a hole opens up in the rotation, I think Thornburg and Smith have to be top of the list to start - unless a starter in AAA is just flat-out ready to pitch in the majors.

 

The question on Thornburg's ability to be a starter was whether he had enough pitches to get hitters out multiple times through the order. If he's improved that changeup and command of his fastball, I'd say he has every chance of becoming a solid MLB starter. Still, many scouts have considered Thornburg's best role as a reliever for years.