Other teams' fans' perspective on the Brewers

[trwi7]

I haven't lied in 15 years.

 

Liar

[PrinceFielderx1]

I haven't lied in 15 years.

 

Liar

 

I was wondering when you would catch that. Your preseason prediction is looking terrible right now, Twri7. What's up with that?

[Patrick425]

Yes, but why hold a press conference to tell a bunch of lies and throw people under the bus after you won your case? Knowing that you are guilty and you got away with something, why not just say "I'm glad that's over and I'm eager to move forward". He didn't lie in hopes of getting away with something. He lied after he got away with something. I spoke with someone from NY yesterday and we were talking about Braun. He said "Yeah, it's basically that press conference that makes him look like a complete tool".

 

There is no way you can convince me that if Braun was on another team like the Cards, Cubs, or where ever, that Brewer fans would not boo loudly when he came into town.

[lcbj68c]

There is no way you can convince me that if Braun was on another team like the Cards, Cubs, or where ever, that Brewer fans would not boo loudly when he came into town.

 

Ref Cubs/Cards/whoever - Nope. I never boo ANY player. I don't shout obscenities from the bleachers at players. They are simply men who put their britches on the same way I do and play a game for a different company than the one I want to succeed. I followed McGwire and Sosa and cheered their powerful homeruns. I could really care less about PED's. I could really care less that he lied. He didn't lie to me directly. I could care less that he looked like a tool in a press conference. Bill Belichick lies weekly in his press conferences and looks like a tool. It doesn't affect one bit my desire for my team and it's employees to perform well. I HAVE ZERO DESIRE TO BE THE MORALITY POLICE. I think that those that are booing, making signs in public that say "Expletive cheater", like I witnessed in Boston, feel some inate desire to be the morality police. And for what? Like somebody said earlier as I witnessed in Boston, the people booed for 4 seconds, then sat down and watched the rest of the at bat. They went home that night not giving two turds about Ryan Braun. Some of them booed out of the peer pressure of their neighbor who booed. It was quite laughable. "Look at me...I'm ANNNNGRRRRRY!!!" Someday, they'll go back to booing something of substance, like checking the runner at first twice in a row"

[Patrick425]

There is no way you can convince me that if Braun was on another team like the Cards, Cubs, or where ever, that Brewer fans would not boo loudly when he came into town.

 

Ref Cubs/Cards/whoever - Nope. I never boo ANY player. I don't shout obscenities from the bleachers at players. They are simply men who put their britches on the same way I do and play a game for a different company than the one I want to succeed. I followed McGwire and Sosa and cheered their powerful homeruns. I could really care less about PED's. I could really care less that he lied. He didn't lie to me directly. I could care less that he looked like a tool in a press conference. Bill Belichick lies weekly in his press conferences and looks like a tool. It doesn't affect one bit my desire for my team and it's employees to perform well. I HAVE ZERO DESIRE TO BE THE MORALITY POLICE. I think that those that are booing, making signs in public that say "Expletive cheater", like I witnessed in Boston, feel some inate desire to be the morality police. And for what? Like somebody said earlier as I witnessed in Boston, the people booed for 4 seconds, then sat down and watched the rest of the at bat. They went home that night not giving two turds about Ryan Braun. Some of them booed out of the peer pressure of their neighbor who booed. It was quite laughable. "Look at me...I'm ANNNNGRRRRRY!!!" Someday, they'll go back to booing something of substance, like checking the runner at first twice in a row"

 

 

Ok, you wouldn't, but I know the general Brewer fan reaction would be the same if he was on any other team. Why wouldn't it be? Why would the Brewer fans be any different than any other fans around baseball? It certainly wasn't for Bonds when he was implicated with PEDs use and came to town chasing the HR record.

 

Accusing someone of acting like the "Morality Police" because they don't agree with your point of view is a bit over the top. As I stated in another post, are you acting like the morality police because you have the willingness to forgive and I don't? How is expressing your contempt of people who chose not support Braun any different that someone expressing there contempt for people who have total apathy regarding his actions? We just disagree, that's all. Has nothing to do with believing one of us is morally superior to the other.

[lcbj68c]

Ok, you wouldn't, but I know the general Brewer fan reaction would be the same if he was on any other team. Why wouldn't it be? Why would the Brewer fans be any different than any other fans around baseball? It certainly wasn't for Bonds when he was implicated with PEDs use and came to town chasing the HR record.

 

Accusing someone of acting like the "Morality Police" because they don't agree with your point of view is a bit over the top. As I stated in another post, are you acting like the morality police because you have the willingness to forgive and I don't? How is expressing your contempt of people who chose not support Braun any different that someone expressing there contempt for people who have total apathy regarding his actions? We just disagree, that's all. Has nothing to do with believing one of us is morally superior to the other.

 

Doth protest too much? I'm not accusing you of acting like the morality police, I'm firmly stating it. You, through your words, have a desire to be okay with punishing him for his dishonesty. He has violated what you think is moral behavior and you are going to police it through your actions, whether it be at the ballgame through booing or here in this message board. That's not an accusation, that's factual. I am not acting like the morality police because I haven't cared about his morals from the start. I have no desire no rein in Ryan Braun for anything he does. I don't have ANY contempt for you. I haven't expressed any contempt for you. You can do as you please. I don't believe that I or anybody on this message board is morally superior to you. In fact, that's kind of the point. The only morals I need to be concerned with are my own and my children until they can make their own choices. Ryan Braun's morals don't concern me. Expressing one's contempt, through booing, for his morals is what I find to be laughable. I haven't gone through a process of forgiving Ryan Braun, because I haven't cared about his "transgressions" in the first place. To bring the conversation back to the topic, I REALLY don't think fans of other teams give a hoot either, in all honesty. It's just the popular thing right now to show discord for his morality by booing. At the end of the day, those fans go home, don't think about Braun again, and likely violate similiar morals (lying) within their own lives sometime thereafter.

[Patrick425]

My view of baseball before the steroid era and after the steroid era is different. I still enjoy watching the game, but I don't know what's real any more. I also rooted for Sosa and McGwire when they were chasing the record. However, I was also disappointed when the realization came in regards to the wide use of PEDs during that period and the fact that those HR chases probably would not have been possible without that extra help. I can't help but be skeptical now whenever I see someone go on a HR tear or dramatically increase their offensive numbers from one year to another. When I see a player who seems overly toned, I now can't help but look at them with a skeptical eye. I'm angry towards the people who allowed this to happen to baseball (players, owners, whoever). I realize that are some like you who are apathetic towards it all and could care less if players are putting up better numbers because of PEDs. Sorry if I'm not in that same camp. I preferred the game I grew up watching prior to the steroid era. My hope is that we are starting to see a return to that because watching guys hit 60 or 70 HRs a year is not fun to watch for me if it seems apparent that they could not do this without chemical help. I might as well just watch my son play one of his baseball video games. If you want to accuse me of acting morally superior because because I feel this way, then so be it.

[Thurston Fluff]

It appears some people might embrace Braun after all. Ok so they view him as the villain. But it appears many of them like villains in the game. I'm sure he'll take it if we keep winning.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/10/did-ryan-braun-taunt-the-phillies-fans-last-night-god-i-hope-so/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[Patrick425]

It appears some people might embrace Braun after all. Ok so they view him as the villain. But it appears many of them like villains in the game. I'm sure he'll take it if we keep winning.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/10/did-ryan-braun-taunt-the-phillies-fans-last-night-god-i-hope-so/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

As lcbj68c stated I think there are definitely people who just like to look for an excuse to boo players. It is part of sports, just like hating the Yankees or Cowboys. Sports needs "villains". Although I usually view the necessary villians as players who are just good and maybe come off a little cocky (Y. Molina may be an example). I remember the harsh treatment Reggie Jackson use to get at County stadium for basically just being good (ok...and maybe a bit egotistical). I had a love/hate view of Reggie. I hated how he played against my beloved Brewers, but at same time I would emulate his batting stance and swing when playing strikeout with my friends. I always believed that Reggie was the player that invented the "pose" after hitting a HR. If he didn't invent it, he surely popularized it.

[Crew2323]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you (general you) have never once lied in your life to cover your rear (whether it was to a parent, teacher, friend, whoever), then you have every right to come down on Braun and refuse to forgive him. But I suspect that no one here or anywhere can honestly say that about themselves.

 

Ultimately, Braun didn't personally hurt me. Yes, he did disappoint me as a fan of his and of the team, but he did nothing to me personally. So why should I take it personally? Why should anyone else? We now know that Braun has gone out of his way to admit his mistake and express his remorse and regret. He's even reached out to Laurenzi and has reconciled himself to him. If Laurenzi has seemingly moved on and accepted Braun's apology, so should everyone else.

 

On a much lighter note, I really wish Braun would use this as his new walk-up theme. Embrace your new reputation as "The Bad Guy."

 

[pretendastronaut]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you (general you) have never once lied in your life to cover your rear (whether it was to a parent, teacher, friend, whoever), then you have every right to come down on Braun and refuse to forgive him. But I suspect that no one here or anywhere can honestly say that about themselves.

 

Ultimately, Braun didn't personally hurt me. Yes, he did disappoint me as a fan of his and of the team, but he did nothing to me personally. So why should I take it personally? Why should anyone else? We now know that Braun has gone out of his way to admit his mistake and express his remorse and regret. He's even reached out to Laurenzi and has reconciled himself to him. If Laurenzi has seemingly moved on and accepted Braun's apology, so should everyone else.

 

On a much lighter note, I really wish Braun would use this as his new walk-up theme. Embrace your new reputation as "The Bad Guy."

 

 

 

Favorite post ever.

[RobDeer 45]

Thurston - I was wondering when he did that, who it was directed to. I think it was to the fans, and then he kind of realized what he was doing and looked more at the dugout, so he could maybe play it off. That was just a gut reaction of mine. Question, didn't the Brewers do that type of gesture last year or am I thinking of "monsters" thing they used to do (can't remember what they called it)?

 

I honestly don't think Braun can be a villain, even though that might be best at this point. I think he's too passive and deep down, feels the need to be loved. I think he's playing it off pretty well, but I really don't think he fully embraces all the negative attention. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. He's not a guy like Prince that didn't care what others said, and had a mean streak to him.

[rwa12]

I peruse the Cardinal boards on occasion, just to enjoy the local flavor. There have been 2 Brewer related posts of late. One saying that if their pitching holds up, they are going to be scary. The other started with a poster questioning Braun's 3 HR, and other posters telling him he was an idiot. All Cardinal nation wants right now is for Allen Craig to be DFA'd, Lance Lynn sent to AAA, and Jon Jay and Peter Bourjos to be sent to another planet. Also, they would like Yadi immediately enshrined in Cooperstown, as he is going there without a doubt.

[Warning Track Power]

On a much lighter note, I really wish Braun would use this as his new walk-up theme. Embrace your new reputation as "The Bad Guy."

 

 

"MY GOD!! THAT'S RYAN BRAUN'S MUSIC!!!"

 

(Braun comes out of the dugout without his shirt, gold chains on and a toothpick while he hits)

 

CLASSIC!

[torts]

[discussion]

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you (general you) have never once lied in your life to cover your rear (whether it was to a parent, teacher, friend, whoever), then you have every right to come down on Braun and refuse to forgive him. But I suspect that no one here or anywhere can honestly say that about themselves.

 

Ultimately, Braun didn't personally hurt me. Yes, he did disappoint me as a fan of his and of the team, but he did nothing to me personally. So why should I take it personally? Why should anyone else? We now know that Braun has gone out of his way to admit his mistake and express his remorse and regret. He's even reached out to Laurenzi and has reconciled himself to him. If Laurenzi has seemingly moved on and accepted Braun's apology, so should everyone else.

 

On a much lighter note, I really wish Braun would use this as his new walk-up theme. Embrace your new reputation as "The Bad Guy."

 

 

[/end discussion]

[gregmag]

So, he cheats and lies, and that warrants a standing O?

 

Yeah, that's exactly what was going on. Fans in Milwaukee affirmatively favor cheating and lying. They were just waiting for an opportunity to express their support for cheating and lying. I'm sure a lot of those fans considered booing other players who have reputations for honesty, but they figured the national media wouldn't understand the point of the booing. So the best they could do was stand for Braun and scream out their support for cheating and lying.

 

I'm really glad you explained that the fans' standing ovation for Braun reflected their admiration of cheating and lying. Stupid me, I had assumed that maybe the fans stood up and cheered because their star player was back after a long suspension. I figured some of them wanted to convey forgiveness, or just support for a player who had obviously been through a difficult time, even though he brought that difficulty on himself. I thought the standing ovation might have, from some fans, sent the message that, hey, we're starting with a clean slate after you did a bad thing and did your time. Perhaps, I moronically posited, Milwaukee fans wanted to give Braun more support than he deserves because they knew fans in opposing parks were bound to give him a whole lot more abuse than he deserves.

 

But you really set me straight, and obviously you were able to do that due to your morally superior position of nonforgiveness. Because you've chosen not to forgive Braun for his lying and cheating, anyone who chooses to forgive him must be a morally deficient advocate for cheating and lying. That is some unimpeachable logic right there, and I for one am duly ashamed of myself.

 

Wow...relax. I think you are just have trouble accepting the fact that I am morally superior to you in every way.

 

I figured I didn't need to put that in blue since you declined to do so in your post (unless you honestly think I was stating that people gave Bruan a standing O because he lied and cheated). Are you putting yourself in a "morally superior position" of being able to quickly forgive someone for their "bad deeds" when others can not? It's very possible that some day Braun will win my support back again. It's just going to take more time for me.

That's a fair question, and the answer is no. Whether or not somebody chooses to forgive Braun, or to what extent somebody does or doesn't forgive him, is up to the individual. It's a tough call, and people other than you have made some very thoughtful arguments about why Braun doesn't deserve forgiveness.

 

Of course, nothing I wrote suggested that I held you or anyone else blameworthy for failing to forgive Braun. That's just a strawman argument to divert attention from what you initially wrote.

 

Now you want to deny that you claimed Braun's lying and cheating caused fans to give him a standing ovation. On one level, I don't blame you, because it's a ridiculous statement. Unfortunately, you made it, and it's right up there in black and white. Not blue.

[Roderick]

"MY GOD!! THAT'S RYAN BRAUN'S MUSIC!!!"

 

(Braun comes out of the dugout without his shirt, gold chains on and a toothpick while he hits)

 

CLASSIC!

 

I suspect only Braun and UL Washington can pull off the toothpick.

[Patrick425]

Now you want to deny that you claimed Braun's lying and cheating caused fans to give him a standing ovation. On one level, I don't blame you, because it's a ridiculous statement. Unfortunately, you made it, and it's right up there in black and white. Not blue.

 

Fair enough. Is it wrong for me to find it odd and be disappointed that the player who played a total of 61 games last year for the Brewers and accepted a half year suspension from MLB for cheating gets a warmer reception from the fans than the player that won a gold glove and was clearly the Brewer's MVP in 2013? I know, I know, Braun needs the fans support, forgiveness, and love more than Gomez does. By that standard, Rickie Weeks should get a standing O every time he comes to the plate. If anyone needs the fans support right now it's him!

[FVBrewerFan]

We all have our own views about Braun, and I don't think we'll change each other's mind. For me, I forgive him. Who am I NOT to forgive him? At the same time, I do look at him differently. If I was there opening day, I wouldn't have joined the standing o. Im happy when he does something on the field that helps the Brewers, but I'm not really cheering for him. At least not yet. And yea, I'm weird because I do cheer for Rickie. Always liked the guy, and I'm really pulling for him. (Not that I wouldn't rejoice the minute he's traded.)

[Patrick425]

At the same time, I do look at him differently. If I was there opening day, I wouldn't have joined the standing o. Im happy when he does something on the field that helps the Brewers, but I'm not really cheering for him. At least not yet.

 

This is basically where I am at. At the "not yet" position. Someday, possibly..maybe even probably, but for now I just hope he continues to help the team and doesn't fail any more tests.

[pretendastronaut]

Folks, the only one morally superior to anyone on this board is me, as demonstrated by my name being in green. With that settled, let's back-off with throwing that around at other members and the passive-aggressiveness. Please and thank you.

[hawing]

Folks, the only one morally superior to anyone on this board is me, as demonstrated by my name being in green. With that settled, let's back-off with throwing that around at other members and the passive-aggressiveness. Please and thank you.

Oh, you think so? *pauses to gaze at the navy at upper left*

[trwi7]

Folks, the only one morally superior to anyone on this board is me, as demonstrated by my name being in green. With that settled, let's back-off with throwing that around at other members and the passive-aggressiveness. Please and thank you.

 

Hard to take you seriously when you're only a pretend astronaut.

[pretendastronaut]

Good points both.

[homer]

Hey my name is in green too! Neato.