Standing O for Braun, Opening Day Drama

[RightFieldCoder]

Pro athletes have done far worse to themselves and to others, and have received much less scrutiny than Braun has after getting caught using PEDs and then lying about it.

Like our Starter and Closer on Opening Day. What did the media say about our reaction to them?

this all happened roughly an hour and a half after Barry Bonds was greeted to boo's (before being overtaken by cheers) in Pittsburgh

How many of the boos were about his PEDs and how many of the boos were about how he left the team?

[torts]

Pro athletes have done far worse to themselves and to others, and have received much less scrutiny than Braun has after getting caught using PEDs and then lying about it.

Like our Starter and Closer on Opening Day. What did the media say about our reaction to them?

this all happened roughly an hour and a half after Barry Bonds was greeted to boo's (before being overtaken by cheers) in Pittsburgh

How many of the boos were about his PEDs and how many of the boos were about how he left the team?

 

id say more about PEDs than how he left the team, most pirates fans I know here are over him leaving pittsburgh. back then there was no way the pirates could have afforded to keep him anyways, if there was any other reason to boo him besides PED's it would be because he was a pretty awful person towards the fans and the media in pittsburgh in the late 80's/90's. but he still got more cheers than boos on opening day because fans dont really care, they got their slugger back for one afternoon.

 

does anyone boo Mark McGuire in st louis? did anyone after he lied to congress? the hypocrisy of the writers at ESPN is overwhelming. someone wrote yesterday that he was okay to cheer for bonds and mcguire because what they did wasn't "against the rules".... unreal. sure, there weren't "rules" at that time, but "rules" were created BECAUSE of them.

[Bombers]

does anyone boo Mark McGuire in St Louis? did anyone after he lied to congress? the hypocrisy of the writers at ESPN is overwhelming. Someone wrote yesterday that he was okay to cheer for bonds and McGuire because what they did wasn't "against the rules".... unreal. sure, there weren't "rules" at that time, but "rules" were created BECAUSE of them.

The article you mention is by Jim Caple. He is a clown. I don't understand his hatred toward Milwaukee but whatever. Here is the link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10714318/mlb-fans-send-wrong-message-cheering-ryan-braun?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

I agree with your points Torts. I get frustrated with this article in multiple ways. I guess my main frustration (and I have said this before) is why should we vilify just one person. If you are on the hate Braun rampage for PED's then hate them all. Don't just single out one person, otherwise you (Jim Caple) come off as a hypocrite. In addition, don't just stop at the chalk line of MLB. Extend it into all sports and really broaden your horizon. Because if you think the un-tested world of the NFL isn't using HGH, you are highly mistaken. But I digress.

 

I was at opening day with my 11 year old daughter. (Yes - proud parenting moment to pull my straight A 6 grader out of school to attend her first ever opening day) I sat and cheered for Braun (I was in the TB 400 level.) I also cheered for Yo and K-Rod because I want my team to win. In specific to cheering for Braun, I did it and my daughter did too as Braun has done everything in his power to move on. People make mistakes and I guess in the world of Jim Caple we should teach our youth to never ever forgive someone.

[Thurston Fluff]

does anyone boo Mark McGuire in st louis? did anyone after he lied to congress? the hypocrisy of the writers at ESPN is overwhelming. someone wrote yesterday that he was okay to cheer for bonds and mcguire because what they did wasn't "against the rules".... unreal. sure, there weren't "rules" at that time, but "rules" were created BECAUSE of them.

 

First of all McGuire didn't lie to congress. He said he didn't want to talk about the past. I know it' splitting hairs but one is illegal and the other isn't. Second it was against the rules when Bonds and Mac did them. There was just no way to test for it. Big difference when making the argument he tried to make.

[pretendastronaut]

The article you mention is by Jim Caple. He is a clown. I don't understand his hatred toward Milwaukee but whatever. Here is the link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10714318/mlb-fans-send-wrong-message-cheering-ryan-braun?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

Isn't he the one that got all bent out of shape with Milwaukee fans voting Miller Park into the best ballpark discussion? No end to the sanctimony of baseball writers.

 

I just don't get this attitude in the media that if someone does something wrong they need to be punished for life, people don't treat other people that way for every offense committed. Braun cheated, it was stupid, embarrassing, disappointing, selfish and a million other things. But it's done, it's over, let's move forward.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just don't get this attitude in the media that if someone does something wrong they need to be punished for life, people don't treat other people that way for every offense committed. Braun cheated, it was stupid, embarrassing, disappointing, selfish and a million other things. But it's done, it's over, let's move forward.

YOU MONSTER! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!1!1!!

 

HOW WILL CHRIS CARPENTER EXPLAIN IT TO HIS SON?!?

[azcheesehead]

To steal the line from Hank the Dog, which was hilarious, I now refer to any bogus, short sighted, barely researched article from ESPN in the same way: "You employ Ray Lewis."

[Bombers]

The article you mention is by Jim Caple. He is a clown. I don't understand his hatred toward Milwaukee but whatever. Here is the link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10714318/mlb-fans-send-wrong-message-cheering-ryan-braun?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

Isn't he the one that got all bent out of shape with Milwaukee fans voting Miller Park into the best ballpark discussion? No end to the sanctimony of baseball writers.

 

I just don't get this attitude in the media that if someone does something wrong they need to be punished for life, people don't treat other people that way for every offense committed. Braun cheated, it was stupid, embarrassing, disappointing, selfish and a million other things. But it's done, it's over, let's move forward.

Yep - you got it. That is the guy. He is also the guy who said "Vick is just another working stiff" here is the link to the article below (I also just pasted in the text from the article)

 

So on one hand he has no problem whatsoever allowing Vick back into the NFL but Braun should be shunned by society. Simply ridiculous. Hank disapproves.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/090728_vick&sportCat=nfl

Michael Vick just wants to go back to work. Shouldn't he be able to?

 

Is quarterbacking an NFL team a dream job? Yes, in that it is a job many fans dream about, it pays gobs of money and it may allow you to sleep with supermodels such as Gisele Bundchen. And no, in that it also means you will get hit hard and often by very large, very strong and occasionally angry men; your every performance will be evaluated, analyzed, criticized and given a precise rating for everyone in the country to see; and you will most likely grow old and arthritic years before your time.

 

So let's be clear about something when we discuss the Michael Vick suspension. Despite what many people say, it is not a privilege to play in the NFL, the NBA, the major leagues, the NHL or any other professional sports league. It is simply a job, a career that is not benevolently granted to athletes but one they earn by honing their talents through years of practice. It comes with benefits and negatives, the same as any other profession. Well, not necessarily the same benefits and negatives -- when was the last time 50,000 people cheered you for completing a TPS report or chanted "You suck!" for ignoring the "service required" light on the office copier? -- but it has aspects that are both good (cheerleaders and endorsements) and bad (frequent concussions and knee operations).

 

But just because pro athletes have careers we covet doesn't mean those careers come with further obligations than ours. Society's approval is not part of the job description any more than it is for a banker.

 

Yes, of course athletes should be good citizens, the same as everyone else. Yes, they should use their fame and prestige as a positive influence in the community: visiting hospitals, donating chunks of their enormous salaries to charity, avoiding shooting themselves or anyone else at a strip club. And yes, a commissioner hired to keep a league popular and lucrative should naturally be concerned about the behavior of its players.

 

But athletes are not required to do anything special just because their chosen career is one that gets regular play in the media and makes us feel joy, sorrow, anger and inspiration beyond all reasonable justification. It simply is unfair to declare that if a person wants to go into a particular field -- a career that in no way has any effect on our health, education, safety or livelihood -- he is also under additional moral obligations just because we think it would be cool to have the same job and convenient to use him as a role model.

 

Thus, now that Vick has served his sentence, he should be free to pursue his trade again.

 

That doesn't mean he's entitled to a job offer. Just as a company may choose not to take a risk on a recently jailed doctor, lawyer, columnist, plumber, etc., NFL teams are not required to sign a 29-year-old quarterback who missed the past two seasons while in prison. But they also should not be prohibited from signing Vick.

 

Given how hard Roger Goodell has cracked down on other players for other crimes, it's surprising he did not give a longer suspension to Vick. He made the right call, though, by allowing him to sign and practice with a team now. Preventing him from playing until the sixth week of the season is essentially moot given that no team would expect him to play before then after missing two full seasons. (Not even the Lions.) But really, no person's review or approval should be necessary, other than whether a team thinks it is in its best interest to put him in uniform.

 

It isn't a matter of whether Vick broke the law or did something reprehensible. He did, and he paid the price for that act with a prison term and the loss of millions of dollars. But now that he has been released, he should face no further burdens than any other parolee just because we refer to his job description as playing a game.

 

We're wrong when we call professional football a game. Two-hand touch in the backyard is a game. Quarterback in the NFL is a job. And Vick should be allowed to pursue that job with the same freedom and restrictions that anyone in any other career would have after paying his or her debt to society.

 

Jim Caple is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

[RobDeer 45]

Taking the IGT Braun discussion here for my response.

 

I agree the initial denials from McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemmons were all very hardcore. As I stated, I don't think there has been anything like Braun since the initial steroids denial from players (that is what I was referring to). I also don't think they really preached like he did. All non Brewer fans would and maybe half of the Brewer fans would say Braun came across as a huge tool and jerk.

 

To the comment that he deserves a second chance because of leaked information. I agree he deserves a second chance, but not because of that. He cheated no matter what. I think he deserves a chance to change, and for that I cheer for him. I also cheer for him because he's a Brewer, but I will not blindly defend him.

 

I get why people cheat, there is so much on the line. I don't get mad at guys who get caught, it just takes away from my respect for what they've accomplished so far. I think a lot of fans like to give players crap, especially good ones. And when Braun laid out that whole speech and acted "holier than though," he set himself up for all that he's getting right now.

[swheeler23]

Taking the IGT Braun discussion here for my response.

 

I agree the initial denials from McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemmons were all very hardcore. As I stated, I don't think there has been anything like Braun since the initial steroids denial from players (that is what I was referring to). I also don't think they really preached like he did. All non Brewer fans would and maybe half of the Brewer fans would say Braun came across as a huge tool and jerk.

 

To the comment that he deserves a second chance because of leaked information. I agree he deserves a second chance, but not because of that. He cheated no matter what. I think he deserves a chance to change, and for that I cheer for him. I also cheer for him because he's a Brewer, but I will not blindly defend him.

 

I get why people cheat, there is so much on the line. I don't get mad at guys who get caught, it just takes away from my respect for what they've accomplished so far. I think a lot of fans like to give players crap, especially good ones. And when Braun laid out that whole speech and acted "holier than though," he set himself up for all that he's getting right now.

 

I agree with everything you said. I don't think Braun deserves a second chance because of the leaked info because if there were no leaked information we wouldn't have known anything about the test and there would be no need for a second chance. Most people are not booing him because of the PED's it is because he lied. If there was no leak he wouldn't have lied.

 

As a fan it is very frustrating to be a Braun fan. I know I am not alone he has over 1 million All-Star votes that is more than Luc.

[zzzmanwitz]

I just don't care what Braun did or said. I am a fan of the Brewers and as long as he is on the field helping them win, I am going to cheer loudly for him. If he gets caught again and it hurts the team (which it would), I would then be pissed. I'm not going to be upset at the guy for taking something to get him back on the field for a playoff push. I'm also not going to get upset about him lying because I am not his friend, he is a player on the team I cheer for, no more, no less.

[Patrick425]

If there was no leak he wouldn't have lied.

 

If he wouldn't have cheated, he wouldn't have lied.

 

When Braun gets a big hit and helps the team's cause I stand up and cheer just like I would for any other player. If he makes a big play in the field, I cheer for him and will probably cheer for him if he comes up to bat right away after making that big play. The initial discussion of this thread revolved around giving him a standing O on opening day. If none of this had happened, I wouldn't have a thought of given him a standing O...so I don't see a reason to give him a standing O now. If maybe he won the MVP last year, or if he had some personal tragedy that happened to him that was out of his control..yes, I could see myself giving him a standing O on opening day.

 

I know people have argued that the reason for the standing O was to show that we still support him as Brewer fans. That's fine. That's your choice to do that as a fan.

 

Time heals all wounds. I guess some people, like me, just need more times than others.

[LouisEly]

Is it just me, or are Met fans surprisingly indifferent to Braun? Figured there would be a lot more boo birds in New York.

 

It's because they live in New York. They may be Mets fans, but they've been dealing with the A-Rod circus in the media for years.