Francisco's Locker Cleared Out. Traded? Released? Update 3/24: Released

[pogokat]

i was hoping he was worth something to someone, but i guess he isn't...

[pete]

What makes you think it happened?

Besides from watching games, if you look at the game logs for Yuni from last year, you will see a number of ph-1b or just 1b with only 1-2 innings. Both of those substitutions were cases where he came in for Juan at the end of games last year. Yuni B was a defensive replacement for Francisco.

 

I watched the games as well. I just don't see it. If those facts are correct it still wouldn't support the conclusion. Roenicke loves his double switches and knifey spooney match ups and all things small ball.

[LouisEly]

Francisco wasn't good defensively at 1B, but remember, he was new to 1B. He didn't play 1B growing up or through the minors.

 

What I wonder/worry about is if he was given another year to practice at 1B and became average defensively, what would his upside be? Sounds like this regime, possibly/probably including Melvin, doesn't have the time or patience for that.

[pete]

again, at least 1B is completely open in 2015 for Halton/Morris/Rogers to win and not have to compete with Juan Francisco for playing time.

 

The comments from Melvin and Roenicke on Halton were both pretty blah. They might have both yawned after making them. I'd guess he's earned Melvin's emergency player if the emergency BU to the emergency FA all go down. I kinda like him. I think people look at his slash line with all those early season rookie pinch hits and think he sucks. It'd be great if one or more of them really does well this season.

 

Melvin did make a comment about seeing if one of them grabs the opportunity or some phrase like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Reynolds or Overbay has a pretty good couple months or so and gets an extension during the season. I know it sounds crazy. I know I'm cynical. I think it would totally fit them.

[reillymcshane]

Going forward we have to make sure Overbay never plays against lefties. He had a .516 OPS against them last year - that's worse than Yuni.

[pogokat]

I think Reynolds is going to start at least 80% of the time...he's not had a huge platoon split most of his career, he's just not very great. I can see him having a mild career resurgence and signing a 2 year extension or something in the middle of the season though.

 

why not Matt LaPorta? He's out there...and i think virtually the same age as Reynolds

[reillymcshane]

I think Reynolds is going to start at least 80% of the time...he's not had a huge platoon split most of his career, he's just not very great. I can see him having a mild career resurgence and signing a 2 year extension or something in the middle of the season though.

I think you're right. Reynolds over the last three years has hit lefties (.742 OPS) and righties (.766 OPS) pretty much the same.

 

Like you said, give Reynolds 80% of the starts, letting Lyle get in once in a while against righties, as a pinch hitter, and as a defensive replacement late in games.

[trwi7]

If Reynolds is going to start 80% of the time, keeping Overbay is even dumber than it already looks. At least with Francisco you have position flexibility (even if he isn't a good defender, he can play 3B) while also having more power, being younger and cheaper than Overbay.

[JohnBriggs12]

Francisco was regularly replaced in later innings by Yuni B, because Yuni was a much much better defender.

 

Did this happen? It sounds like the way history is written.

It happened about a dozen times from mid-August to early September, after which Francisco didn't play much. Basically from the time where they had just had it with Francisco's defense to the time where they totally gave up on him.

 

Francisco stopped hitting altogether after about August 17th too. He was toast after back to back 4 strikeout games on August 18 and 19. After that they rotated Yuni, Halton and Lucroy with Francisco. Francisco did not homer after August 16.

[RobDeer 45]

I do think if we are playing well, they will be looking for other 1B options, especially if we are struggling there. Remember, there is a full season of baseball ahead of us, so anything can happen. As I and a few others stated, it's an upgrade of some sort and it doesn't affect us next year. I think those are two positives to take from this.

[Baldkin]

If you don't want your kid to play with an old broken down toy, you don't give it to him.

 

Overbay will be Roenicke's old broken down toy this year.

[Fear The Chorizo]

At least with Francisco you have position flexibility (even if he isn't a good defender, he can play 3B)

 

I'd argue Francisco can't play either 1B or 3B - so the Brewers picked up positional flexibility by releasing him and going with a platoon of Reynolds and Overbay. Just because Francisco throws right handed and owns a glove doesn't mean he can play 3B. Francisco is a DH at best and unfortunately for his career as a Brewer, the Brewers play in the NL.

[Thurston Fluff]

I can't say I'm totally mad at him being cut but I wouldn't have been angry if he was kept either. All in all I felt it was going to be a week spot after Hart left no matter what. So I am not to fussed about it. I really don't think losing Francisco instead of Overbay matters to the team's fortunes this season.

 

They asked him to make changes and he did. They talked about how he was working hard and had made progress and then when they dump him, they trash him. The talk about defensive is hyperbolic. I realize they can't say they want these guys because its a chance to get some old guys and some relief from all the young players, but come up with different spin.

While he looked better on the offensive side he failed miserably on the defensive side.

I'm not sure how you can say it's hyperbolic when it was a stated goal before free agency even started and well before the position was filled with who we have.

He hurt his shoulder in 2009 as 31 year old, and while past durability is better than a history of frailty, being durable in the past is not any kind of predictor of future health, it doesn't work that way.

 

Please explain to me how hurting his knee sliding into second base has anything to do with a previous shoulder injury.

Sure there is more concern for older players but the idea that he is fragile and will inevitably be on the DL is way off base. I am being charitable in saying inevitable is the same as saying almost a certainty. No age to injury stat I have ever seen showed that.

All I ever saw with injury predictors pertaining to age regression is they are more likely than someone younger to get injured. Totally different thing than more likely than not to get injured. Let alone a forgone conclusion he will.

[fondybrewfan]

I am fine with how it turned out. Reynolds and Overbay surely aren't world beaters but it will almost be impossible to not substantially improve over 2013. As for Francisco there is a reason he was given up on by 2 teams already. He will have a good two week stretch followed by an entire half season of crap. Maybe he turns into Big Papi; but he is much more likely to end up playing in Japan or accepting a lesser role in the US. He would be great for a rebuilding team in the AL that needs a DH. At least those teams could afford to have some patience with him.

[TheCrew07]

Please explain to me how hurting his knee sliding into second base has anything to do with a previous shoulder injury.

 

I didn't imply or infer that the shoulder has anything to do with the knee, nor in fact did I mention compensation injuries in general, which are very common in athletes who don't get rehabbed properly. The common thread in this case is age, I forget where I read it, it might have fact been a presentation at a coaching clinic (admittedly geared towards football), but normally a significant injury to a major joint to an older player marks the beginning of the end, for many reasons I won't get into here. They may be productive in spurts, but they will likely never be the same player again. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but the fallacy here is to assume because a player was healthy last year he'll be healthy this year.

 

Sure there is more concern for older players but the idea that he is fragile and will inevitably be on the DL is way off base. I am being charitable in saying inevitable is the same as saying almost a certainty. No age to injury stat I have ever seen showed that.

All I ever saw with injury predictors pertaining to age regression is they are more likely than someone younger to get injured. Totally different thing than more likely than not to get injured. Let alone a forgone conclusion he will.

 

I'm glad you're such a charitable dude even though you are apparently missing the larger point. Ramirez signed a 3 year contract with a 4th option year, given the historical injury rate it was a virtual certainty that at his age over his contract length he would land on the DL at least once, the only question was really the severity of the injury.

 

Hence the reason why there is a segment of posters here that don't like any kind of long-term contract to any aging player, more often than not there is going to be dead money in the contract due to injury, never mind age based productivity regression. You can look around baseball but the Brewers have a recent history with these kind of players; Wolf, Marcum, Riske, Ramirez... In this particular instance we're talking about someone who's 36 years old now, we aren't talking about a 18% chance of a random significant injury anymore, we're talking about a player who's wearing down and has now experienced significant shoulder and knee issues. Will his knee issue become a compensation injury where the other knee starts to fall apart as well? I have no idea, but I know the odds of Ramirez ending up on the DL are high enough that I'd take odds and still feel comfortable about winning the bet, I don't think it's close to 50/50, rather more like 70/30.

 

Of course there is a chance he stays completely healthy like he did 2012 and puts up a monster year, I just don't believe that's the most likely scenario, and I certainly wouldn't be planning around that eventuality. For 2014 the possibility of Ramirez on the DL with Reynolds being a butcher at 3rd while Overbay plays 1st full time scares me. For a short 15 day stint not so much, but for any extended period of time that's going to be tough for the team to swallow. I'd be ecstatic if he gave the Brewers 130-140 games and a .850ish OPS but I'd park the over/under somewhere around 120 games, any more than that and the Brewers have come out ahead in my opinion.

[dacbrewers]

Thomas Keeling the player sent over to the Braves for Francisco was released recently. Last year's article about the trade.

http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/06/04/tom-keeling-brings-good-return-for-atlanta-braves-in-francisco-trade/

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm glad you're such a charitable dude even though you are apparently missing the larger point. Ramirez signed a 3 year contract with a 4th option year, given the historical injury rate it was a virtual certainty that at his age over his contract length he would land on the DL at least once, the only question was really the severity of the injury.

 

I think you said Ramirez is fragile and will inevitably get injured this season. I just don't see how that shows he inevitably will make a trip to the DL in 2014 or show he is a fragile player.

I know last season Bleacher report had ranked him as a moderate risk of DL time. Not sure what it is this season but I bet he isn't ranked as inevitably going to get injured. Look I get what you are saying. I just disagree with your overly hyperbolic pessimism. If you mean he has a higher chance of injury than most and we should account for that then say that. Not he is a lock for injury because he is a fragile little old man.

[torts]

WELL!!! at least 1B FA options are looking up in 2015! it alll makes sense now

 

First Basemen

 

Yuniesky Betancourt (33)

Billy Butler (29) - $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Michael Cuddyer (36)

Corey Hart (33)

Adam LaRoche (35) - $15MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout

Adam Lind (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Mike Morse (33)

Carlos Pena (37)

Ty Wigginton (37)

Kevin Youkilis (36)

[torts]

they gave him an unconditional release says MLB.com

[xisxisxis]

Last year we had 2 SS playing first base. This year we have 2 1B that hit like shortstops. Sounds like Progress!

[RockCoCougars]

I think Reynolds is going to start at least 80% of the time...

 

I agree with this. Overbay will start a couple of times a week, and pinch hit/serve as a defensive replacement.

 

I guess that I don't get why people are all up in arms about this. Overbay is obviously past his prime, but I don't see a problem with him as the last guy on the roster. As for Reynolds, he's averaged almost 30 homers a year in the bigs. The average will be low and he will strike out a ton, but I don't think it's a stretch that he hits 25 or 30 homers, which would be a huge upgrade from last year. To me, losing Francisco is a non factor, as his upside at the plate is likely somewhere around Reynolds' career norms, and the guy may be the worst defensive player that I've ever seen.... he made 10 errors at first base last year in partial duty in a partial season for heaven's sake.

[logan82]

If Overbay is the last guy on the roster. Our manager always seems to play these "last guys" way too much.

[Dragonbait]

Let me be overly optimistic....

 

Maybe Overbay could be like Flynn..... Only good with our team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Let me be overly optimistic....

 

Maybe Overbay could be like Flynn..... Only good with our team.

Flynn?

[DR28]

Let me be overly optimistic....

 

Maybe Overbay could be like Flynn..... Only good with our team.

Flynn?

 

He's talking about Matt Flynn.