Francisco's Locker Cleared Out. Traded? Released? Update 3/24: Released

[BarneyStinston]

They had to shore up the defense. i don't think its much of a risk putting Francisco on the DFA anyway.

[pete]

Don't believe the spin about defense. Neither Overbay nor Reynolds are anything special. Seriously, all I've ever heard from Roenicke about defense is the equivalent of "oh well" and we'll do some drills.

[3and2Fastball]

On the plus side, little moves like this add up and could lead to a disastrous season resulting in Melvin, Ash, Roenicke all getting fired/new regime coming in (not in blue, intentionally)

[JohnBriggs12]

On the plus side, little moves like this add up and could lead to a disastrous season resulting in Melvin, Ash, Roenicke all getting fired/new regime coming in (not in blue, intentionally)

 

As much as I think 1B remains a huge question mark, if the pitching stays healthy and the bullpen doesn't implode ala 2012, the team should be competitive enough to save all those guys. What I'd like to see is for Ash to retire/be dumped so they can bring in a guy to groom as the eventual replacement to Melvin. It makes no sense to me to have both the GM and assistant be on the wrong side of 60. The brain trust is a little too much an old boys network for my taste and I'm the same age as Melvin.

[RobDeer 45]

First, I'm not sure Overbay is the right choice for the other 1B. That said, I think a majority of us on this board didn't want Juan as our 1B when we discussed this in the off season. I don't know if some have bought in to his spring numbers or if more people are just coming to the board to discuss. All three options were below average, so I'm really not mad. It's a short term move, which is fine, as long as they think 1B will be addressed by next year. I believe DM tried to address 1B, was left with few options, and in the end, we should be better off than last year. I guess that's all we can ask for, he tried, upgraded a little, and isn't making issues for finding someone in the future.

[Patrick425]

I'll basically agree with what RobDeer 45 stated and add that if Overbay and/or Reynolds have the simple ability to catch a throw at 1B, then their defense is already better than Francisco's

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't have a problem with Francisco being released regardless of his spring numbers. I do have an problem with Overbay as the alternative. Even Ishikawa, who's had a strong spring and appears to have made the Pirates, would have been a better option.

[monty57]

I think a majority of us on this board didn't want Juan as our 1B when we discussed this in the off season. I don't know if some have bought in to his spring numbers or if more people are just coming to the board to discuss.

 

I think it's just that when your options are a "1" or a "0" most people take the "1." Next to most first baseman Francisco looks bad, but next to Overbay he looks good. He at least has power and some upside potential, while at this stage of his career, Overbay has no "plus" skills. I really hope they don't go with a straight platoon, but rather just let Reynolds be the "everyday" guy with Overbay getting occasional starts and being the primary LH bat off the bench. Given PAs, Reynolds could potentially be decent. Overbay won't.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I really hope spring training stats are viewed by everyone on this board the same way NFL and NBA preseason stats are...they're pointless. Keep your guys healthy.

 

Francisco can't play defense - he's an ideal fit for a team in need of a DH with pop, that doesn't need him to carry a lineup. That's not the Brewers.

 

Losing Francisco and going with some combination of Overbay/Reynolds isn't a move that leads to a disastrous season. 1B is still a trouble spot offensively for the Brewers, at least there are players there who can play the position defensively compared to last year. Having one of those bats hitting 7th in this lineup isn't going to kill you, either. It's an obvious position in need of a long term upgrade, but it's also one of the easier positions to plug veteran MLB players for the short-term and hope you catch lightning in a bottle. Not the best spot to be in, but if the Brewers are competitive and need an offensive boost, Melvin would likely be able to find an upgrade via trade by the deadline to fill that role. Much less costly than acquiring impact pitching via trade.

 

Losing two of your projected starting pitchers to Tommy John surgery before the season starts, having your projected closer get hit in the head with a 120-mph comebacker, losing your starting SS to stress fractures in both legs and having one of your best pitchers refuse a contract extension - those are the things in spring training that can lead to disastrous seasons. Thankfully, the Brewers have managed to stay relatively healthy this spring (knock on wood), and aren't heading into this season like last year, when their primary and backup 1B option were already lost for the season and a combination of Yuni B and Alex Gonzalez were playing there.

[yoshii8]

Not excited about Overbay being on the roster, but I guess it's a step up from last season.

[Warning Track Power]

Unfortunately, there are no winners when your choices are Juan Francisco and Lyle Overbay. The fact that Melvin stuck the Brewers in the position to have the heavier side of a platoon with these guys speaks either to the lack of talent available or his inability to judge the market. I tend to think its the former rather than the latter. Would any of you have given the contracts that were handed out to Loney or Corey Hart? I wouldn't. A trade of Thornburg for Ike Davis? Nope. Moreland, Smoak, Morrison? No rumors were ever mentioned that two of those guys (Moreland & Smoak) were TRULY available and Morrison was traded when DM thought Hart would be back.

 

This isn't to defend Melvin and his decision making, rather it brings up a larger point of what is and or was available. Francisco...man I didn't want him on the roster but Overbay is done, which means Francisco has the ability to provide more simply from the maturing process given he is only 26. Reynolds hopefully plays everyday but I would prefer him as the power bat off the bench and backup 1B/3B who gets 2 starts per week.

 

I know it's pointless now, but I am clinging to the hope of a late Spring trade and an Overbay DFA before the beginning of the season.

[bensheeps]

I know it's pointless now, but I am clinging to the hope of a late Spring trade and an Overbay DFA before the beginning of the season.

 

I am doing the same. I'm not afraid to admit that as soon as I saw the twitter report of Francisco cleaning out has locker, I immediately checked to see if Mike Carp was doing the same in the Red Sox locker room.

 

The realist in me has started to accept that as a longshot. This morning I moved by Overbay bobblehead from the shelf of "past Brewers" to the shelf of "current Brewers". My 16-year-old son laughed at me.

[pete]

I think its crazy to dump Juan and not at least keep him on the bench. But setting that aside, the way it was handled just adds taint to Roenicke and Melvin, at least for me. They asked him to make changes and he did. They talked about how he was working hard and had made progress and then when they dump him, they trash him. The talk about defensive is hyperbolic. I realize they can't say they want these guys because its a chance to get some old guys and some relief from all the young players, but come up with different spin.

 

I'd guess part of it is also because they talked about a competition and it pretty obvious there never was any. Reynolds especially was never in question outside of injury. It sure seems like the inevitable process of needing to be dishonest because of earlier dishonesty.

 

It's also a regression especially from Melvin. He's gotten hugely better at accepting the reality that he can't compete with a team the way he wants - some big FAs, grizzled veterans and young superstars. He's the guy who said he didn't believe in having young players on the bench. He's the guy who said that a team with young players couldn't compete in the playoffs much less make the playoffs. After i post this I'll probably remember a half dozen more things like that he's said over the years.

 

Now Melvin says all the right things. I take that as there being people in the org who are realistic and understanding of where the team and the business of the league are and Melvin grudgingly accepting it. Of course his actions don't always match. If you spliced every statement he made prior to the signings of Lohse and Garza and listened to them, you'd think there was little to no chance they would become Brewers.

 

The old Melvin or perhaps what he is and can't change is someone who believes that good teams, successful teams, buy players at the trade deadline. Based on Attanasio's comments when he was being interviewed about the budget, they've allocated money for the trade deadline and reviewed prospects to trade. The team's "surplus inventory" as Melvin refers to them is largely outfielders. I can see him trying to get Crusty Methusalah for Kentrail Davis or D'vo Richardson, but the other team will hang on and get someone like Tyrone Taylor and maybe some pitching prospect who is underperforming. If Crusty has a WS ring it'll be mentioned in every statement along with descriptors like "he knows how to win" or "he knows what it takes" by the FO, the coaching staff, Bill Schroeder and the soft, cuddly media that covers the team.

 

I'd take Melvin over a whole lot of other GMs and I'd take Roenicke over a whole lot of other managers, but I've gotten to the point where I rarely can watch or listen to interviews because its just PR and often not honest PR.

[MadScientist]

Francisco was regularly replaced in later innings by Yuni B, because Yuni was a much much better defender. Reynolds and O may not be anything special, but nothing special is a sizable upgrade over last year.

[pete]

Francisco was regularly replaced in later innings by Yuni B, because Yuni was a much much better defender.

 

Did this happen? It sounds like the way history is written.

[gregmag]

I think WTP is right. The going rate for established MLB 1bs this winter was outrageous. The Loney and Hart contracts were stupid, and the Mets wanted too much for Davis. That we're stuck without a great option at 1b speaks to a long-term talent development problem, but I don't blame DM for not finding a better solution this winter.

 

Francisco is terrible. I liked the acquisition when we first got him, but he simply can't play defense. His butchery at 1b (let us not even speak of his time at 3b) pretty much wiped out his offensive contributions. Those contributions really weren't much anyway, because Francisco does one important thing well and everything else badly. Not a lot of power-only guys learn plate discipline at 26.

 

Overbay is also terrible. He can't hit anymore at all. But if he has anything left, sticking him in a platoon is probably the only way to find it, and his defense is at least good enough to compensate for some amount of offensive failure. I'm pretty sure our 1b production won't be good, but I'm also very sure it will improve over last year's disaster. These guys are obviously a stopgap. The search for a real solution continues.

[Warning Track Power]

In a season where the phrase "go for it" has been uttered again after the Garza signing, it sure does seem awfully shortsighted to have a 1B rotation of Reynolds/Overbay. There is little to no upside there, and if the Reynolds/Overbay combination simply matched last season's stats, the Brewers would be looking at the following line from their 1B:

 

.247/.315/.403, 21 HR, 75 RBI

 

That is hideous and even that is unlikely as I think Overbay, who provided most of the AVG and HR, is going to regress substantially this season.

 

Having said all of this, who could they trade for that would provide a better line than that? My personal favorite, Ike Davis, I think would match the AVG and boost the OBP and SLG, but would cost something in a trade. Mike Carp provide something better than that? I don't know. And either of these guys might not be a long term solution to the issue as well.

 

It's frustrating anyway you slice it...

[MadScientist]

Francisco was regularly replaced in later innings by Yuni B, because Yuni was a much much better defender.

 

Did this happen? It sounds like the way history is written.

It happened about a dozen times from mid-August to early September, after which Francisco didn't play much. Basically from the time where they had just had it with Francisco's defense to the time where they totally gave up on him.

[pete]

What makes you think it happened?

[MadScientist]

What makes you think it happened?

Besides from watching games, if you look at the game logs for Yuni from last year, you will see a number of ph-1b or just 1b with only 1-2 innings. Both of those substitutions were cases where he came in for Juan at the end of games last year. Yuni B was a defensive replacement for Francisco.

[torts]

In a season where the phrase "go for it" has been uttered again after the Garza signing, it sure does seem awfully shortsighted to have a 1B rotation of Reynolds/Overbay. There is little to no upside there, and if the Reynolds/Overbay combination simply matched last season's stats, the Brewers would be looking at the following line from their 1B:

 

.247/.315/.403, 21 HR, 75 RBI

 

That is hideous and even that is unlikely as I think Overbay, who provided most of the AVG and HR, is going to regress substantially this season.

 

Having said all of this, who could they trade for that would provide a better line than that? My personal favorite, Ike Davis, I think would match the AVG and boost the OBP and SLG, but would cost something in a trade. Mike Carp provide something better than that? I don't know. And either of these guys might not be a long term solution to the issue as well.

 

It's frustrating anyway you slice it...

 

last year at 1B the following players over 162 games hit .206/.259/.370:

Francisco-62

Betancourt-46

Halton-19

Gonzalez-16

Lucroy-9

Maldonado-7

Lalli-3

 

i'd take the numbers you hope 1B will produce over the stats 1B over 7 players produced last year

[RobertR]

Here are Francisco's game logs:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=francju02&t=f&year=2013

 

And Yuni B's game logs:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=betanyu01&t=f&year=2013

[RobertR]

The Brewers are likely 3 or 4 wins better if Reynolds and Overbay are merely replacement level. Yeah, they're completely unexciting ballplayers and short-term band-aids, but you don't have to have all stars at every position. First base just doesn't have to sink the team, like it did last year. Along with the back end of the rotation.

 

There's potential at every other position to be at least average. That's more than a lot of contenders can say.

[torts]

again, at least 1B is completely open in 2015 for Halton/Morris/Rogers to win and not have to compete with Juan Francisco for playing time.

[trwi7]

Francisco is on release waivers per Mike Vassallo.