Jimmy Nelson/Hunter Morris/Jason Rogers/Ariel Pena optioned to Nashville

[3and2Fastball]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249356871.html

 

I realize players like this can be up & down between MLB & AAA but I was hoping Green could stick this season. Clearly they think Morris needs more development

[TURBO]

Yeah, after all , we have Overbay, Reynolds and Francisco to man 1B...We are in great shape.

[djoctagone]

taylor green can't be optioned, as he's not on the 40-man roster.

[3and2Fastball]

It is only a "small sample" of 2 Spring Trainings but I believe Ron Roenicke has a habit of overvaluing Spring Training stats as well as "hot streaks". I certainly hope they aren't putting much weight on Overbay's .450 OBP so far this spring! The guy had a .688 OPS last year, .727 OPS the year before, and .670 OPS in 2011!

 

But Overbay is a "gritty vet who takes good at-bats"....

[3and2Fastball]

taylor green can't be optioned, as he's not on the 40-man roster.

 

yes I realize I mistakenly posted it that way. Green was sent to Minor League camp

[jerichoholicninja]

Nelson was expected to not make the team out of camp, so that's not a surprise. A lot of people are pulling for Green but nothing about him screams "must have major leaguer." He's a 4A player with some positional flexibility at best. Morris has been a failure since his hyped AA season. I don't put much stock into ST stats but he's been pretty abysmal in his two ST's with a shot at a MLB job. And his AAA season in between did not do him any favors. I wouldn't be surprised if his fate is similar to Green's: a few tastes of the majors and then DFA'd and gone to another organization.

[DHonks]

Green has 1.5 good minor league seasons. He's a backup 2b/3b at best, unless he has a breakthrough. He needs to be in AAA showing the Brewers he deserves to be around in 2015

[3and2Fastball]

I'll admit to being a Hunter Morris fan and thus somewhat biased but I think calling this year's Spring Training "abysmal" is a little harsh when it has been only 16 AB's. That is about as small sample as it gets and speaks to the frustration I have with the Brewers front office: why is Lyle Overbay even on the roster and taking Spring Training at-bats away from Hunter Morris?!

 

The Brewers already have a few mediocre 1B vets in Francisco & Reynolds. They really need a 3rd? Wouldn't it be better to give Morris the at-bats that Overbay is getting in Spring Training and give him more experience and a longer look?

[Fear The Chorizo]

The writing was on the wall for Morris before spring training ever started, let's not kid ourselves...the organization didn't view him as a viable 1B option to start the season in Milwaukee, which is why they rounded up just about anyone with a 1st baseman's mitt and invited them to spring training.

 

Spring training isn't viewed as competition for roster spots anymore for the most part - it's about keeping your anticipated big league roster healthy while giving them some work to get into baseball playing shape. MLB spring training has turned into NFL preseason recently.

 

As for Taylor Green, aside from being pretty good at AA one season years ago, what has he done to deserve any kind of longterm roster spot with the Brewers? Certainly nothing as a major leaguer...sometimes the "small sample size" at certain levels has more to do with not exposing a player to competition they're clearly not capable of performing well against. I was actually surprised he was in Brewers' camp this spring, as I figured the Brewers had moved on. Aside from being one of the possible trade chips for C.C. that the Brewers held onto, there isn't anything since then that would give any organization a reason to want to slot him into longterm plans. He's undersized for the infield positions he's most capable of playing defensively (1B and 3B), his offense will never allow him to play either of those positions at the ML level regularly, and he's always hurt.

 

Nelson getting bumped to AAA probably has more to do with getting him his work as a starter, and Nashville was where he was likely ticketed to start the season once Garza was signed. I'm fine with that.

[PrinceFielderx1]

The writing was on the wall for Morris before spring training ever started, let's not kid ourselves...the organization didn't view him as a viable 1B option to start the season in Milwaukee, which is why they rounded up just about anyone with a 1st baseman's mitt and invited them to spring training.

 

Spring training isn't viewed as competition for roster spots anymore for the most part - it's about keeping your anticipated big league roster healthy while giving them some work to get into baseball playing shape. MLB spring training has turned into NFL preseason recently.

 

As for Taylor Green, aside from being pretty good at AA one season years ago, what has he done to deserve any kind of longterm roster spot with the Brewers? Certainly nothing as a major leaguer...sometimes the "small sample size" at certain levels has more to do with not exposing a player to competition they're clearly not capable of performing well against. I was actually surprised he was in Brewers' camp this spring, as I figured the Brewers had moved on. Aside from being one of the possible trade chips for C.C. that the Brewers held onto, there isn't anything since then that would give any organization a reason to want to slot him into longterm plans. He's undersized for the infield positions he's most capable of playing defensively (1B and 3B), his offense will never allow him to play either of those positions at the ML level regularly, and he's always hurt.

 

Nelson getting bumped to AAA probably has more to do with getting him his work as a starter, and Nashville was where he was likely ticketed to start the season once Garza was signed. I'm fine with that.

 

Exactly correct on everything. I've been saying this for about a year now. Guy's a guy that I highly believe will make the team as a back-up at 3B and SS is Elian Herrera. He played 3B today and showed excellent range with a stabbing grab all the way out in the SS position while playing 3B and hit a homerun. He's having a good spring.

[monty57]

Green certainly has to re-establish himself (if he ever was established). He had no realistic shot at the Opening Day roster, but if he plays well in AAA, he could be the injury replacement if Ramirez goes down. He just needs to settle in and put up solid play offensively and defensively in Nashville. I'm not counting him out, but I'm not counting on him. Right now, he's a utility guy who doesn't play SS and who is coming off a major injury, so his value is minimal. However, a great AAA campaign could put him in the running for the 2B or 3B job next year.

 

Morris also had no chance at a spot on the Opening Day MLB roster. Last ST was more telling to the Brewers' feelings about Morris than this ST, but he really needs to put a good season together at Nashville if he wants a shot at the MLB team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rogers pass him up and be our 2015 starting 1B with Morris once again hanging out in AAA. But it's really on him. I'm sure the Brewers would love for him to go out and dominate AAA.

 

Nelson is a MLB pitcher, and his time will come. I just hope he does well enough that he forces the Brewers' hand, and they are able to trade one of their established major leaguers (Gallardo, Lohse, Garza) by next offseason. Thornberg should also be thrown in with this sentiment. Having a few young, inexpensive, home-grown SP in the rotation and some good young players from trading older, more expensive SP could do wonders for the Brewer franchise.

[JohnBriggs12]

Just adding to what monty57 said, since there's been no hint that they are negotiating on anything long term for Estrada, he's another of the veteran starters that might get traded to make some rotation room. I also wouldn't rule out Smith getting a starting shot too.

 

It will be interesting to see if any of Morris, Rogers or Halton turns in a big enough year at AAA to grab an inside track at next season's 1B job. This may well be the last real chances for Morris and Halton, though a guy like Halton that can play corner OF and even 3B, has some utility value. It's likely now or never for Green too. He needs a big year. If not, at best he's utility guy.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Brewers already have a few mediocre 1B vets in Francisco & Reynolds. They really need a 3rd? Wouldn't it be better to give Morris the at-bats that Overbay is getting in Spring Training and give him more experience and a longer look?

 

What experience is there to be gained by a few more spring training ab's on the major league side that he hasn't already had? He's already been to one so the whole "get used to the way they do things" isn't there. Then add in the amount of extra playing time he will get in minor league games vs sitting on the bench on the major league side and I see more experience to be gained this way.

[monty57]

The Brewers already have a few mediocre 1B vets in Francisco & Reynolds. They really need a 3rd? Wouldn't it be better to give Morris the at-bats that Overbay is getting in Spring Training and give him more experience and a longer look?

 

What experience is there to be gained by a few more spring training ab's on the major league side that he hasn't already had? He's already been to one so the whole "get used to the way they do things" isn't there. Then add in the amount of extra playing time he will get in minor league games vs sitting on the bench on the major league side and I see more experience to be gained this way.

 

Yeah, they're starting to get to the point where the regulars will be getting more time on the field, so PAs and IPs will be hard to find. I have no problem if whoever loses the Overbay/Francisco battle sits the bench for days at a time, but I'd like to see Morris get a lot of spring playing time so he can hit the ground running. The best thing that could happen to the Brewers' 1B situation would be for Morris to put it all together, force the Brewers to call him up, and become the 1B for the next half-decade. I don't know if that will happen, but the Brewers need to give him every opportunity to make that happen. Playing everyday with the minor leaguers for the rest of the spring should better prepare him for the coming season than sitting the bench watching Reynolds and Francisco play in major league camp.

[endaround]

I don't get the complaints. Morris had an entire season in AAA to show he should be in Milwaukee. He actually hit worse as the season went on. If anything, the Brewer moves this offseason show the front office have some hope for him. Instead of trading for an Ike Davis who would have blocked Morris, they sign Overbay to compete with Juan Francisco. The door is wide open for Morris to walk through.

 

Green missed an entire season so he just needs to play. Yeah he should have been up in 2011 taking PAs from McGehee but that did not happen. His 2012 in Milwaukee was not good but his BABIP was abysmal. If he was healthy, he likely would have been in the mix this year. Of course if he was healhty last year he might have had a starting job this year.

 

Rogers turns 26 in 2 days. He put up an OK season in AA, but not really when you consider he was 25. If he wasn't a corner bat he might be something, but he plays 1B.

[The stache]

Morris has been a failure since his hyped AA season.

 

His "hyped" AA season was in 2012. That was so long ago, I know.

 

Look, he took a step backwards in 2013 moving from AA to AAA. Some players take a while to adjust. Some players also take a while, shockingly, to adjust from AAA to the Majors. Mike Trout hit .220 with a .672 OPS his first go round in the Majors. Imagine if the Angels had said his minor league showing was "hyped"? And as bad as you think Morris was, he still hit 24 home runs at AAA. The power is there. Can he really be any worse than the guys we have penciled in to compete for first in 2014?

 

We have nothing at the Major League level that remotely catches my fancy. Lyle Overbay is older than Jesus. Juan Francisco, when he connects, can drive the ball out of any park. So, too, can Mark Reynolds. You just have to put up with 250 + strikeouts between them for those 25 home runs. Morris has shown that he is at least capable of playing the position. Are you really going to disqualify him based off of 16 spring training at bats??

[logan82]

Trout hit way better than Morris has in the minors so I am not sure how you think that is a good comparison. If Morris had hit like Trout in the minors I am sure he would have had a good shot at being the starting 1B this year.

[trwi7]

Look, he took a step backwards in 2013 moving from AA to AAA. Some players take a while to adjust.

 

I might buy this if Morris wasn't horrible in 3 out of his 4 years in the minors. He's topped an OBP of .310 once in 4 years. Not what you're looking for from a guy who played college for 3 years and was old for every level he played in.

 

Mike Trout hit .220 with a .672 OPS his first go round in the Majors. Imagine if the Angels had said his minor league showing was "hyped"? And as bad as you think Morris was, he still hit 24 home runs at AAA. The power is there. Can he really be any worse than the guys we have penciled in to compete for first in 2014?

 

Mike Trout made his major league debut at the same age Hunter Morris was OPSing .883 in college. Even with Morris' "great year" in 2012 he's only hit .271/.320/.487 in the minors. Meanwhile, Trout, while being at least a couple years younger than Morris at every level hit .326/.428/.516. Morris' OBP was lower than Trout's average.

 

We have nothing at the Major League level that remotely catches my fancy.

 

Which makes it all that much more concerning that Morris can't win the job and that they had to go out and get Overbay and Reynolds in the first place.

 

Morris has shown that he is at least capable of playing the position. Are you really going to disqualify him based off of 16 spring training at bats??

 

When has Morris shown this? I must have missed it.

[monty57]

I don't get the complaints. Morris had an entire season in AAA to show he should be in Milwaukee. He actually hit worse as the season went on. If anything, the Brewer moves this offseason show the front office have some hope for him. Instead of trading for an Ike Davis who would have blocked Morris, they sign Overbay to compete with Juan Francisco. The door is wide open for Morris to walk through.

 

I think the bolded part here is a really good point. He's not ready to play in the majors, and I don't think it would do him or the Brewers any good to throw him out there when he's not ready. Melvin picked up a couple of stop-gap solutions and hopefully Morris will play well at AAA. If he does, the guys we have at the MLB level will not block him for long.

[Warning Track Power]

Instead of trading for an Ike Davis who would have blocked Morris, they sign Overbay to compete with Juan Francisco. The door is wide open for Morris to walk through.

I know I am in the minority here, but I would be calling the Mets and seeing if I could buy low on Ike right now. I still think he's a better option than Reynolds/Francisco/Overbay. Maybe they're desperate enough to deal him for a bag of balls... or what most of you think he's worth.

[reillymcshane]

Hunter Morris had a lower OPS than Dee Gordon, Hernan Iribarren and Tony Gwynn Jr. at AAA last year.

 

Morris gets 2014 to show he's more than just minor league fodder. But I'm not convinced. He had a good year in 2012 (albeit, a very good year), so I'm not giving up. But that seems to be the outlier at this point. If I had to bet on it, I'm skeptical that he'll be a decent big league starter.

 

If Hunter can make it, he might be a platoon type player. His .667 OPS against lefties last year is unacceptable for a starter.

[3and2Fastball]

Morris certainly does project as a platoon player. He rakes against RHP

[TheCrew07]

I think there is still hope for Morris. Part of me is worried that just being able to play in his hometown made all the difference for him in 2012 but he still hit for power last year. He hasn't been awful besides that one season, he just hasn't been good either, but he's maintained his level of production at each step up and his power has come on nicely. The question has been and always will be his plate discipline, will he ever hit enough?

 

If you look at his AAA and AA campaigns, the stats are eerily similar the exception of Hits, which pushed his totals down for everything else: 2B, 3B, GDP, and so on. His walk and strike out rates per PA are similar (I'd still like him to walk more), he just didn't make anywhere near as solid contact as he did the year before. That can be taken in 2 ways:

1) He's not good enough to square up more advanced pitchers (not in terms of stuff, but pitchablility) or

2) He was pressing and swinging at bad pitches, but he had the talent to make contact and put them in play (kind of like Arcia).

 

The jump for hitters to AAA isn't so much about the quality of the stuff, I think you'll find bigger arms and sharper stuff on average in AA, pitching prospects with stuff and pitchability don't spend much time in AAA. AAA is filled with guys who are fringey on the stuff but really know how to pitch or have the stuff but not the control. We know Hunter can square up top tier FBs, he proved that in AA, but the evidence would suggest he struggled with pitchers who take a more savvy approach, he was still able to mash mistakes, but he wasn't consistently making good contact. Regardless of what camp you are in that's a major red flag because most MLB starting pitchers have enough pitchability regardless of stuff to be successful or they wouldn't be there in the first place. I'm on the fence, I can see the argument on both sides, he struggled early with his MLB spring training opportunity and never recovered, the reasons why are open to debate.

 

However I'm still hopeful because pitch selection and/or plate discipline can be learned, I don't believe them to be inherit traits. I still believe Hunter Morris has the potential to be a .820-.840 OPS type hitter, but this is his make or break season. He could be an above average 1B for his peak or he could be nothing... In fact we have many prospects you could say are beginning make or break seasons, but that's a different discussion entirely. I just have a hard time making definitive statements about prospects in general, but especially in this case where I didn't catch a single AAA game all season, so I haven't personally watched Morris take an AB in years. He's a good kid and the team could really use average production at 1B so I'm pulling for him, but I actually think we have plenty of 1B options in the organization beyond the scrubtastic collection of MLB has beens and/or never were in camp for that position right now.

[monty57]

John Sickels weighs in:

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/1/30/5363560/milwaukee-brewers-top-20-prospects-for-2014

 

15) Jason Rogers, 1B, Grade C+: Borderline C. This guy gets no attention at all but that could be a mistake. He is a 25-year-old 260-pound first baseman/emergency outfielder and a former 32nd round pick. But he earned a spot on the 40-man roster with a fine offensive track record, career .283/.368/.446 hitter, knocked 22 homers last year, controls strike zone well, posted 144 wRC+ in 2012 and 136 last year in Double-A. There could be something very interesting in this bat.

 

16) Hunter Morris, 1B, Grade C+: Borderline C. Morris will rank ahead of Rogers on every other prospect list due to his draft pedigree, but he’s only five months younger than Rogers and hasn’t been as productive due to weaker plate discipline and more serious contact issues. Hit 24 homers in Triple-A but wasn’t promoted to the majors for September. Neither Rogers nor Morris offer much defense, both are slow slugger types, but Rogers has a more consistent track record, strikes out less, and they are not that far apart in age. I will go where the numbers lead me in this case and put Rogers ahead.

 

Edit: I'll add this tidbit from the end, as it sums up my opinion on the system pretty well:

 

The problems with the Brewers system are well-known. There is almost a complete lack of impact talent here, and the guys who have the physical ability to be impactful (Coulter, Roache, Hellweg, Williams) have significant questions they need to answer. There are some players with upside and some players with polish, but it is hard to find anyone who has both. This is true both on the mound and in the field. They’ve made steps to add more upside types the last two drafts while still looking for role players and sleepers in the middle and later rounds, but it just hasn’t worked out yet.

 

Heck, even their names are boring.

 

Looking for positives, they do have several of the grade C+/C types who could be useful role players, and there are some guys who would be interesting sleepers in any organization (Rogers, Wagner). The situation could look better a year from now if Roache maintains his second half momentum and Coulter gets back on track.

 

I don’t know if this is the worst farm system in the game. The Angels are pretty bad too, and I won’t have a final ranking on that until all the organization reports are complete. But it sure isn’t a good system at this point and has to be in the conversation for worst. Something needs to change.

[3and2Fastball]

Sickels said " it sure isn’t a good system at this point and has to be in the conversation for worst. Something needs to change."

 

What needs to change specifically? An entire restructuring of the front office from the GM on down? Or bringing in new scouts/minor league instructional people. If the Brewers don't have the $$$ to be big players in free agency, then they need to develop talent, obviously.

 

Is there that big of a difference in the front office or in minor league coaching from the wave of Fielder/Weeks/Braun/Hardy/Hart/Gallardo to now? Or is it just that the Brewers have been shooting blanks in the draft since that big wave? Is Jack Z the missing link?

 

I feel these questions belong with this topic because these players were considered very good prospects coming out of the draft but still aren't MLB ready yet. Is the problem scouting or development or both?