What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[dacbrewers]

My question is, after year one when Wang gets put back into the brewers minor system, will he still remain on the 25 man roster? or 40 man? or not at all?

if he's put back into the brewers' minor league system in 2015, he's obviously not on the 25-man roster.

 

if they want to keep him on the 40-man roster in 2015, but in the minor leagues, they'd have to option him (burning his first option).

 

if they want to keep him in the organization at the conclusion of the 2014 season, but remove him from the 40-man roster, wang could be claimed by any other team with a 40-man spot open, and would enter 2015 spring training with three minor league options remaining. if no other team claims him, he remains brewers' property, but could be subject to the rule 5 draft again. one would think that if a team truly wanted wang in 2015, they'd claim him as a waiver claim (can be optioned) and not a rule 5 pick (cannot be optioned).

Thanks for clearing that up.

[adambr2]

As another poster noted, this is quite a power packed observation: "find your own young pitching the old fashioned way through scouting and development of your own guys." Where is the blue font?

 

The Brewers say that Wang is the equivalent of mid, round 1, draft pick.

 

I agree with the posters who say the guy can indeed pitch 25 games, 2 innings a game, in those lopsided games - and get 50 innings - and not hurt 2014, but maybe help 2017 or so.

 

Just to clarify, is that the equivalent of a mid round 1 draft pick from Bruce Seid, or the equivalent of a mid round 1 draft pick from a competent scouting staff?

[brwrsfan]

As another poster noted, this is quite a power packed observation: "find your own young pitching the old fashioned way through scouting and development of your own guys." Where is the blue font?

 

The Brewers say that Wang is the equivalent of mid, round 1, draft pick.

 

I agree with the posters who say the guy can indeed pitch 25 games, 2 innings a game, in those lopsided games - and get 50 innings - and not hurt 2014, but maybe help 2017 or so.

 

Just to clarify, is that the equivalent of a mid round 1 draft pick from Bruce Seid, or the equivalent of a mid round 1 draft pick from a competent scouting staff?

 

This legitimately made me laugh. It's both sad and funny at the same time.

[502 to Right]

 

Cute idea in practice? Kinda like Dan Uggla and Johan Santana were "cute ideas?"

 

Dan Uggla played for a Marlins team in 2006 that won 78 games. Johan Santana pitched for a Twins team in 2000 that won 69 games.

 

Carrying a Rule 5 guy for a season is OK for a non-contending team that is building for the future. It is not OK for a playoff contending team to carry a Rule 5 guy on the MLB roster all season (especially someone who pitched in Rookie ball last season).

 

I don't blame the Brewers for taking a flier on a guy like Wang but as a playoff contending team they need the roster spot for someone who can pitch at the MLB level.

[SoupTown]

With the MLB AAA shuttle in place, it is 100% ok to 'carry' Wang

[502 to Right]

I'd like to see a list of MLB players who went from Rookie ball directly to a full season of the majors.

 

I'd say a AAA pitcher is demonstrably more capable of getting major league hitters out than Wang.

[jerichoholicninja]

Can everyone please stop talking about him in rookie ball. The only reason he was there was because he was rehabbing.

[502 to Right]

Can everyone please stop talking about him in rookie ball. The only reason he was there was because he was rehabbing.

 

Ok, tell me about all the other levels of minor league baseball he played before he ended up rehabbing in Rookie ball.

[torts]

Can everyone please stop talking about him in rookie ball. The only reason he was there was because he was rehabbing.

 

Ok, tell me about all the other levels of minor league baseball he played before he ended up rehabbing in Rookie ball.

 

professional baseball in Taiwan. he didnt even get a chance to pitch in the minors before having tommy johns

[Moose]

But...without Wang in the bullpen they can't have "Wei Chung Wang Wednesday" or #WWCW! If you don't follow Marcus Hanel on Twitter...do. He's worth a few laughs. The Video on instagram is classic!

 

http://brewers.mlblogs.com/2014/04/23/now-trending-wcww-wei-chung-wang-wednesday/

 

http://instagram.com/p/nJnDOTnKcx/

[502 to Right]

Not only is it a dumb idea to try to stash a player on the roster of a playoff competing team who is going from Rookie ball to the majors in one season, it is harmful to Wang's development to not be pitching.

[SoupTown]

Wang will have enough chances to pitch. If not it means the crew have closed out a 110 win year

 

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

[hyerbro1]

Are we safe to assume that September active days are equal to April-August active days?

 

If Wang needs 90 days including September (expanded rosters) and already has 25 then I think he is well on his way to remaining a Brewer.

[TheCrew07]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

[SRB]

I don't really care about Wang's development if the alternative is him developing into a useful pitcher for the Pirates. Maybe that's harsh but baseball is a business and it's not like the Brewers are exploiting him by letting him accrue service time and see major league baseball as opposed to slaving away in the minors for peanuts.

 

He's going to get more innings, the Brewers are just on a .750 W% kick right now, so the mop-up guy is going to look underused. Every bullpen needs a guy to fill innings in reverse-save situations where you just need somebody to eat innings. We haven't had very many of those yet.

[SoupTown]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

 

Having a year around the traps on the MLB scene and pitching once in a while is not the ideal year. But it, in my opinion, does not count as a career negative. And can even be a career positive.

 

re someone not on the mound repeating pitches in games for a year... and still end up with a decent career... can I nominate Tommy John... and all the his subsequent followers that had a year off.

[SRB]

Can everyone please stop talking about him in rookie ball. The only reason he was there was because he was rehabbing.

 

Ok, tell me about all the other levels of minor league baseball he played before he ended up rehabbing in Rookie ball.

 

professional baseball in Taiwan. he didnt even get a chance to pitch in the minors before having tommy johns

 

I don't think he ever played professional baseball in Taiwain, did he? He played in some juniors tournaments but the Pirates signed him at 19.

[Outlander]

This is many months from now but I don't recall playoff teams with a rule 5 guy. Does Wang have to be on the playoff roster or be offered back to the Pirates?

[sveumrules]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

 

Crew, you've constantly bashed the organization for having Lee Tunnell as the bullpen coach at the major league level instead of keeping him on the minor league side to help develop young arms on the farm. But now that Wang is in the bullpen, and presumably working closely with Tunnell during his plentiful off time, he isn't going to develop at all? Those two stances seem to be at the very least somewhat contradictory.

[HiAndTight]

 

Cute idea in practice? Kinda like Dan Uggla and Johan Santana were "cute ideas?"

 

Dan Uggla played for a Marlins team in 2006 that won 78 games. Johan Santana pitched for a Twins team in 2000 that won 69 games.

 

Carrying a Rule 5 guy for a season is OK for a non-contending team that is building for the future. It is not OK for a playoff contending team to carry a Rule 5 guy on the MLB roster all season (especially someone who pitched in Rookie ball last season).

 

I don't blame the Brewers for taking a flier on a guy like Wang but as a playoff contending team they need the roster spot for someone who can pitch at the MLB level.

 

 

So if the Twins were projected to win 90 games that year, they'd have been wrong to select Johan Santana? Because the difference between the production they would have gotten out of Santana and the 25th best guy on their roster was such a huge one it would have been worth giving up about 1200 innings pitched at a 2.92 ERA over a 6 year period and a 9.8 K/9 rate?

 

 

It's not a "cute idea," that's time is over, it's a smart, logical way to get a young, talented left handed pitcher on a team that desperately needs to develop it's own talent. And those were the 1st two rule 5 guys who came to my mind. How many wins do you really believe keeping Wang on our roster is going to cost us? We're 16-6 right now. Would we be 18-4.

[jjfanec]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

 

Crew, you've constantly bashed the organization for having Lee Tunnell as the bullpen coach at the major league level instead of keeping him on the minor league side to help develop young arms on the farm. But now that Wang is in the bullpen, and presumably working closely with Tunnell during his plentiful off time, he isn't going to develop at all? Those two stances seem to be at the very least somewhat contradictory.

 

You could have just stopped after the part in bold. Crew has some really solid takes but his dislike for Melvin as a GM and how the organization is run in general leads him to make comments that seem the organization cannot do anything right. You bring up a good example.

 

Wang will have to pitch at some point and it will probably be in games when we are done by 5 runs. I dont see why putting him in when the game is close is necessary. Does anyone really think we are going to be in 3 run games the rest of the year? We will have a few games where we get blown out and a few where we blow other teams out. If it starts costing us games I will complain more

[HiAndTight]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure the only time he picks up a baseball in order to "learn to repeat his delivery," will be during the games that we see televised. I doubt he's getting ANY work on the side or any one on one attention.

[HiAndTight]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Crew, you've constantly bashed the organization for having Lee Tunnell as the bullpen coach at the major league level instead of keeping him on the minor league side to help develop young arms on the farm. But now that Wang is in the bullpen, and presumably working closely with Tunnell during his plentiful off time, he isn't going to develop at all? Those two stances seem to be at the very least somewhat contradictory.

 

You could have just stopped after the part in bold. Crew has some really solid takes but his dislike for Melvin as a GM and how the organization is run in general leads him to make comments that seem the organization cannot do anything right. You bring up a good example.

 

Wang will have to pitch at some point and it will probably be in games when we are done by 5 runs. I dont see why putting him in when the game is close is necessary. Does anyone really think we are going to be in 3 run games the rest of the year? We will have a few games where we get blown out and a few where we blow other teams out. If it starts costing us games I will complain more

 

I'm fairly certain if we'd have had started the season with Wooten over Wang and given Wang back to the Pirates, we'd have heard how the Brewers are so inept at scouting that they'd rather have a 28 year old AAAA reliever than a 21 year old left hander with a high upside. Everyone has their as to how the team could be run better, but when it's almost literally every single thing they do...

 

 

I agree with you on Wang as well. I'm sure he's getting a lot of individual work right now, and as the season progresses, things will balance out, they can get by a big chunk of time with some phantom injury in which he has to go and rehab in the minors, and the roster expand. So you could end up really only having to have to worry about it for another 2 months.

 

This problem is being blown up into such a bigger deal than it is. It's a minor inconvenience to acquire a talented young pitcher.

[TheCrew07]

Re development. I don't see it as an issue or a negative. Just being in MLB a year is a positive

 

Right! His stuff will improve and he'll learn to repeat his delivery through osmosis and progress as a pitcher by not actually pitching, because that theory has worked for whom in the past?

 

Crew, you've constantly bashed the organization for having Lee Tunnell as the bullpen coach at the major league level instead of keeping him on the minor league side to help develop young arms on the farm. But now that Wang is in the bullpen, and presumably working closely with Tunnell during his plentiful off time, he isn't going to develop at all? Those two stances seem to be at the very least somewhat contradictory.

 

I actually hit on that very idea earlier in this thread. We have no idea if Wang is getting side throwing sessions or not, I would hope that he is, but that's only typically something that starters do in all levels of professional baseball. Pitchers in the bullpen typically don't get side sessions because they technically need to be "available" everyday. Which is why I like riding out relievers as starters for as long as possible in the minors, they get more in game action and more bullpen sessions to hone their craft. Obviously I really like Lee Tunnell and always have, I've found his knowledge and insight extremely valuable over the years, I've taken quite a bit of my pitching philosophy from him. I just don't think you are connecting the dots for this situation the same way that I am or you are possibly inferring something I didn't intend from my other posts.

 

I've been around sports my entire life and have coached most of my adulthood, in my experience the hardest thing for any player to do is transition skills from practice to the games. When you're practicing you have time to think your way through something but in a game everything is done on instinct, there's no time to think, just time to react, which is why repetitions are so important... you basically have to reteach your body new instincts and habits. I have no doubt that Wang can make improvements via side sessions but there is really no replacing the varied situations, pace, and intensity of actual game situations to reinforce and cement any new habits.

 

In addition I think Wang can pick up some ideas on how to properly setup hitters just sitting in the bullpen and talking with guys, but it's one thing to know the theory, and it's another to practically apply it. In all my years I've only coached 1 kid who was a horrible practice player but was a fierce competitor and performer come game time, those personalities are extremely rare in my experience. The majority of players are going to continually be working at taking skills from practice and utilizing them in the games, there will be successes and failures, the key for any athlete is that constant cycle of applying what they've learned to successfully navigate game situations. The higher up they go the tougher it gets because the other players and coaches actually start scheming the players' individual strengths and weaknesses. In baseball as a pitcher you start with FB command and basic theory like moving the ball in and out or up and down. By the time you get to MLB it's about staying away from a hitter's hot zones and exploiting the pitches, pitch combinations, or areas of the strike zone they struggle with.

 

As far as TJ surgery goes, I'm not sure how a year of rehab equates to being fully healthy and sitting on a bench? Most pitchers returning from TJ surgery struggle to repeat their deliveries and throw strikes for a multitude of reasons, so it absolutely sets their development back. Not only are they losing a year of possible progression as a pitcher but they also have to reteach themselves something they already knew. To me the TJ angle is grasping at straws to justify a desired outcome; I don't really want to give up on Wang either, but I also don't want him pitching twice every 22 games either. Why would the Brewers intentionally set his development back? It only pushes his possible return date to MLB that much farther away and it's not like we're drowning in potential impact arms as an organization.

 

If he's going to be on the roster he has to be used, for all the reasons outlined previously, it really is that simple. If not then work out a trade or send him back, RR simply cannot keep pitching the same pitchers everyday. I brought this up when discussing 1B as well, but you can't have a bench with no flexibility and also be short in bullpen when you have rotation of starting pitchers who average about 6 innings per start. Too many innings are being left for the bullpen, especially a bullpen running short handed because 1 of the pitchers is arbitrarily forced into blow-out loss situations. You could run an extra position player heavy to fix the lack of positional flexibility if the bullpen was used differently and relievers pitched multiple innings on a regular basis. However to run short handed both in the bullpen and with the position players is a tall task for any manager and I think RR's skills tend to be more on the people side than the strategy part of the game.

[Fear The Chorizo]

In addition from mop-up duty, I think that from time to time RR has to try and steal an inning using Wang to get through the 6th/7th of close games. Do it against teams with weak lineups or when an inning starts with the bottom of a team's order. Even if it's only between 1 and 2 appearances per week, it will help the pen in the long run.