What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[Thurston Fluff]

I agree making up an injury is not going to happen. Claiming dead arm or something might work to get an overworked reliever a little rest but not a guy who another team has a vested interest in. You might be able to get him a 15 day DL stay but I seriously doubt a phantom injury is going to allow him to stay on the DL for a couple months.

 

As far as Wang's projection to add a few miles on his fastball I think he could. He is not all that far removed from TJ surgery and is still young enough to add a mile or two anyway. I also remember Ron saying something about Wang not throwing his hardest because he was more interested in throwing strikes and has not really aired it out like he can. All things considered I wouldn't read too much in the average fastball reading this season.

I'm not sure what the "especially with the Brewers pitching coaches" is supposed to mean but I don't think ours are somehow less capable than any others. Our current staff seems to be doing well under them and I can't say I've noticed our pitchers suddenly losing velocity when they get here.

[jerichoholicninja]

How many pitchers go on the DL with "elbow soreness" after no diagnosed injury and a clean MRI? Plenty.

 

He's DL'd for 2 weeks and spends the maximum amount of time on rehab giving the club a month with a "full" roster. He hangs around for a few weeks and maybe another bout with the elbow soreness and we're almost to September. If they've stuck with him this far they're going to do everything they can to keep him the rest of the season.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Since Wang doesn't get regular work, and when he does it ends up being of the 40 pitches/inning variety without even recording 3 outs, I think it's likely that he does develop some sort of defensible injury that leads to a DL stint. I'm not saying the trainers are going to make something up...I'm saying that the first sign of anything that would prevent him from being available for 2-3 games is going to be used to DL Wang.

 

A 15 day DL stint from Wang a couple of times between June and August is exactly what the Brewers need, so having him on the active roster more than 90 days isn't going to kill the bullpen. What's going to kill the bullpen is a lack of runs being scored in bunches by this team, which is creating far too many close late inning game situations.

[lcbj68c]

Meanwhile the team loses 4-8 games in that process because Wang has given up 20Runs.

 

This team is going to lose 60+ games... why are we worked up over 4-8 games in which we are already losing and Wang's .ERA?

I don't think anybody is guaranteeing that he be put on the DL at exactly the 90-day mark, they are simply trying to present options that are available under the rules of the Rule 5 Draft. They are trying to pacify the outcries by showing you that there are other things that are possible and probably smarter options than outright waiving a talented left handed pitcher that averages 93mph on his fastball.

 

We can continue to debate his selection in the draft altogether or his placement on the 25-man roster, but every day that passes it becomes more and more foolish to desire the option of an outright release for the simple sake of having a Jimmy Nelson come up and throw once every 10 days in blowouts, because well, "he's earned it". Something will happen for one reason or another that I believe Wang won't spend every one of the 180 days on the roster. I do know that we won't be trading with the Pirates without exposing him to waivers. And rest assured, there is SOME team out there amongst the other 28 that would have no problem with him pitching in blowouts for the next 3 months themselves.

[young guns]

I think the reason the waivers thing doesnt come up when talking about the rule 5 is because its usually bad teams the claim them to begin with and if not even they want to a full season with the guy, nobody would.

 

Wang is kind of a special case. We were expected to be bad, but we aren't, sometimes. We picked 11th, so its not like every other team passed on him. Only 4 teams ahead of us didnt take a player. Im willing to bet most teams just dismissed him out of hand because either they didn't have much info on him or because he was in the lower levels. But now that we have done most of the leg work and teams have gotten a good look at him some of those teams have changed their minds and would love to have him, even if it means having him in the majors this season. With how desperate we are for upside in our system I hope we keep him. Even if we dont make the playoffs or he doesn't turn out to be anything, I will be glad they tried to think about the distant future for once and take a chance.

[Fear The Chorizo]

As far as Wang's velocity is concerned, simply getting some good weight on his frame is going to speed up his pitches a bit, along with getting time and routine innings to develop as a pitcher. Right now he's high school-level raw and coming off elbow reconstruction surgery...there's definitely another 2-3 mph in that arm.

 

And I agree that the time spent clamoring for his release at this point is pretty foolish...the decision was made to try and keep him for the year at the end of spring training, when this thread was overwhelmingly positive with the move. What's changed outside of many on this board's understanding of the vast development gap between a rookie league/low minors kid who throws 93mph and a fully developed MLB pitcher throwing at the same velocity?

[TooLiveBrew]

How many pitchers go on the DL with "elbow soreness" after no diagnosed injury and a clean MRI? Plenty.

 

He's DL'd for 2 weeks and spends the maximum amount of time on rehab giving the club a month with a "full" roster. He hangs around for a few weeks and maybe another bout with the elbow soreness and we're almost to September. If they've stuck with him this far they're going to do everything they can to keep him the rest of the season.

Arm fatigue, shoulder fatigue, lower back tightness, arm/shoulder discomfort... the list of possible ailments goes on & on. Wouldn't look suspicious at all - like you say, it's seen all over the league.

[trwi7]

Hell, there could be a grounder hit to the right side and he could run over and fake pull a hammy.

[Thurston Fluff]

How many pitchers go on the DL with "elbow soreness" after no diagnosed injury and a clean MRI? Plenty.

 

He's DL'd for 2 weeks and spends the maximum amount of time on rehab giving the club a month with a "full" roster. He hangs around for a few weeks and maybe another bout with the elbow soreness and we're almost to September. If they've stuck with him this far they're going to do everything they can to keep him the rest of the season.

Arm fatigue, shoulder fatigue, lower back tightness, arm/shoulder discomfort... the list of possible ailments goes on & on. Wouldn't look suspicious at all - like you say, it's seen all over the league.

 

Does it happen all over the league with rule 5 guys another team was sorry to lose? I think it's possible to stash him away for a small DL stint but I think it would be much harder to stash him for the remainder of the season. Pittsburgh would have something to say about it. And the medical side would have to be validated if they did.

[Patrick425]

So, I was trying to scan through all the posts in this thread and get an idea of how much longer they would have to keep him on the roster before DLing him (if that is really an option). I thought I saw something like 10 more days, but then I also keep seeing a total of 90 days? If it's a total of 90 days then it seems like he would have to be on the roster for another month+. Way too long in my opinion. He's already been on the roster 50 days too long.

[Thurston Fluff]

AS has been mentioned if we keep Wang he replaces the draft pick we lost by signing Lohse. So keeping him means we get three years of Lohse for the equivalent of a 25th man on the roster for a year. If someone offered you the chance to get Lohse and all it would cost you is a competent 25th man on the roster for one season would anyone not take that deal?

[Patrick425]

AS has been mentioned if we keep Wang he replaces the draft pick we lost by signing Lohse. So keeping him means we get three years of Lohse for the equivalent of a 25th man on the roster for a year. If someone offered you the chance to get Lohse and all it would cost you is a competent 25th man on the roster for one season would anyone not take that deal?

 

I have zero problems with giving up a draft pick to get Lohse considering how he has pitched for the Brewers. If the idea is that we picked up Wang to compensate for the lost draft pick, then no, I don't think it was worth it. Whether we pick up Wang or not, we still get to keep Lohse. They really have nothing to do with each other.

[zzzmanwitz]

So, I was trying to scan through all the posts in this thread and get an idea of how much longer they would have to keep him on the roster before DLing him (if that is really an option). I thought I saw something like 10 more days, but then I also keep seeing a total of 90 days? If it's a total of 90 days then it seems like he would have to be on the roster for another month+. Way too long in my opinion. He's already been on the roster 50 days too long.

 

30 days in September when we have Minor League call ups means he only needs 60 total days prior to September.

[Patrick425]

So, I was trying to scan through all the posts in this thread and get an idea of how much longer they would have to keep him on the roster before DLing him (if that is really an option). I thought I saw something like 10 more days, but then I also keep seeing a total of 90 days? If it's a total of 90 days then it seems like he would have to be on the roster for another month+. Way too long in my opinion. He's already been on the roster 50 days too long.

 

30 days in September when we have Minor League call ups means he only needs 60 total days prior to September.

 

 

Oh, ok. Thanks. Sorry for being too lazy to scan through everything again to figure that out on my own.

[brewcrewdue80]

AS has been mentioned if we keep Wang he replaces the draft pick we lost by signing Lohse. So keeping him means we get three years of Lohse for the equivalent of a 25th man on the roster for a year. If someone offered you the chance to get Lohse and all it would cost you is a competent 25th man on the roster for one season would anyone not take that deal?

 

Or, we don't have Lohse. Drafted from these 4 next picked(Marco Gonzales SP(already in AA), Tim Anderson SS(A+), Chris Anderson SP(A+), and Jonathon Crawford SP (A) None of which are on this team hurting their record or bullpen usage/wasting a roster spot.

 

Lost 6-9 games more in 2013 and have a legit shot at picking a SP with Ace potential.

 

Nelson/Fiers aren't wasting away in AAA and are instead pitching for this team this year.

 

And still have Wang as a Rule 5 Pick.

 

Without Lohse the team also ups it's offer and lands Jose Abreau to play 1b(ending the Platoon of Overbay/Reynolds thus creating the added roster spot to carry Wang)

 

 

That's the other side way to take the Lohse Signing.

You can't just say Wang replaces the Lohse pick because Wang doesn't magically become not available to the Brewers Rule 5 draft pick if they didn't sign Lohse.

[brwrsfan]

The Brewers can't just falsify an injury report, but any player can claim to have a "tired arm" or a "sore shoulder". Doesn't mean an x-ray would show anything, but it happens all the time. Wang would still get to collect his full salary during the entire process too.

[Thurston Fluff]

AS has been mentioned if we keep Wang he replaces the draft pick we lost by signing Lohse. So keeping him means we get three years of Lohse for the equivalent of a 25th man on the roster for a year. If someone offered you the chance to get Lohse and all it would cost you is a competent 25th man on the roster for one season would anyone not take that deal?

 

I have zero problems with giving up a draft pick to get Lohse considering how he has pitched for the Brewers. If the idea is that we picked up Wang to compensate for the lost draft pick, then no, I don't think it was worth it. Whether we pick up Wang or not, we still get to keep Lohse. They really have nothing to do with each other.

 

I assume you didn't have a problem with it when he signed either. Not being sarcastic since there were plenty of people who didn't have a problem with it. Myself included. I was more or less addressing the group of people that thought it was too much to lose for Lohse. Now it's just the value of the last man on the roster for a minimum of 90 days instead of the loss of 6 years of a potential major contributor. I think it is a smart way to offset the loss of the pick and still keep everyone who will contribute far more than the average 25th man on the roster for a year would.

[JohnBriggs12]

AS has been mentioned if we keep Wang he replaces the draft pick we lost by signing Lohse. So keeping him means we get three years of Lohse for the equivalent of a 25th man on the roster for a year. If someone offered you the chance to get Lohse and all it would cost you is a competent 25th man on the roster for one season would anyone not take that deal?

 

You really don't know what the cost is. The 25th spot normally doesn't belong just to one guy over the course of an entire season (or at least through August). It's an opportunity spot for a player to show he could contribute higher up on the list. If not, someone else gets his turn and so on through the course of the season. Wang's presence is precluding that from happening for other potentially much more competent players.

[TheCrew07]

You really don't know what the cost is. The 25th spot normally doesn't belong just to one guy over the course of an entire season (or at least through August). It's an opportunity spot for a player to show he could contribute higher up on the list. If not, someone else gets his turn and so on through the course of the season. Wang's presence is precluding that from happening for other potentially much more competent players.

 

That is by far the weakest argument you've made so far.

 

So once again....

 

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

 

I can't believe this issue seriously warrants multiple posts per day from you across multiple forums... let it go man.

[Thurston Fluff]

Lost 6-9 games more in 2013 and have a legit shot at picking a SP with Ace potential.

 

There is a legit chance all of them will flame as well. As it is we have a legitimate prospect who already had the most common injury taken care of and is getting some time to learn what it takes to play in the majors. While some think he is destined to play in a ball all next year I wonder if he isn't going to be a little more advanced than that.

Nelson/Fiers aren't wasting away in AAA and are instead pitching for this team this year.

 

And we have zero depth left and lose a year of control over them for less production than we are getting out of Lohse.

And still have Wang as a Rule 5 Pick.

 

Then we'd have less than Lohse production in the starting rotation making that roster spot more valauble.

Without Lohse the team also ups it's offer and lands Jose Abreau to play 1b(ending the Platoon of Overbay/Reynolds thus creating the added roster spot to carry Wang)

 

You know this how? My guess is since they were willing to pay Garza they would have been willing to pay Abreau if they felt he was worth the price.

 

That's the other side way to take the Lohse Signing.

You can't just say Wang replaces the Lohse pick because Wang doesn't magically become not available to the Brewers Rule 5 draft pick if they didn't sign Lohse.

 

By reducing the production of our pitching staff keeping Wang becomes more problematic. You can't just ignore that as part of the equation either.

[HiAndTight]

You guys think the league is going to let them put a healthy pitcher on the DL? They open their training staff up to fines and suspensions if they falsify medical reports. The league will make sure he's actually hurt. Division rivals will see right through it. The DL thing is not going to work.

 

 

Can you recall one time a training staff has been fined or suspended?

[superfly]

Does anybody actually think the league cares who Wang is? I guess maybe the Division rivals might care though...they would be pissed off that they wouldn't get a chance to Tee off on him.

 

I don't think the Pirates even care who Wei-Chung Wang is at this point.

[JohnBriggs12]

You guys think the league is going to let them put a healthy pitcher on the DL? They open their training staff up to fines and suspensions if they falsify medical reports. The league will make sure he's actually hurt. Division rivals will see right through it. The DL thing is not going to work.

 

 

Can you recall one time a training staff has been fined or suspended?

 

 

No because teams don't put healthy players on the DL so they can circumvent the Rule 5 provisions.

[LouisEly]

So what's the solution here? Assuming that there are other teams who will claim Wang if the Brewers expose him to waivers (assuming at least several teams didn't know about him prior to the Rule 5 draft), I think the two best solutions are:

 

1) Trade Wang for a LH 1B/3B

2) Trade Wang for international signing bonus slots (if Gilbert Lara will in fact command a $3.5M signing bonus, the Brewers will need more bonus pool dollars to avoid penalties)

3) ?

[RightFieldCoder]

3) Trade Wang for prospects that don't have 25 man restrictions. We picked Wang because we have a weak bullpen. Why not turn him into 1-3 other prospects that free up a roster spot. The tough part will be finding a partner.