What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[ewitkows]

And why would we trade for him now. He's got over half of the minimum time needed to stay on the roster. he's going to be on the roster till he hits his 90 days at least. Those 7.2 innings haven't costs us any wins , the fact that we are 23rd in runs is costing us wins

[LouisEly]

The silver lining may be that with Wang pitching poorly it may lower the cost of working out a trade with PIT to keep him. Maybe the Brewers can get him for a Jose Pena, Gian Rizzo, Jorge Lopez, or Chris McFarland. I'm not as high on Arcia as most, so I might even consider trading him for Wang.

 

its been made known that he wont clear waivers to even make working a trade out with the pirates possible

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

[Crew2323]

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

 

This is inaccurate. I suggest everyone read up on the rules surrounding Rule 5 here: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517.

 

Some items of note in the link:

 

"7. If a team decides not to keep a player selected in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 draft on its MLB 25-man Active List (and/or MLB DL), the player must be placed on Outright Assignment Waivers, where any of the other 29 MLB clubs can claim the player for the $25,000 Rule 5 waiver price and assume the Rule 5 obligations."

 

"8. If the Rule 5 player is not claimed off Outright Waivers, the player then must be offered back to the club from which he was drafted, and the player's former club can reclaim the player for $25,000, with the player being automatically outrighted to the Reserve List of the minor league club from which he was drafted. The club from which the player was drafted usually has 72 hours to decide whether to reclaim the player."

 

So, if the Brewers put him on waivers, they can't revoke it. If a team claims Wang, he's gone. There is no ability to play teams against each other to try and up trade value.

[trwi7]

He might have upside but this kid should be in the minors where we can work with him and not in the bigs getting hammered.

 

Of course he should be in the minors. Is anyone really disputing that? The problem is we can't put him in the minors and if we tried he would either be on some other teams MLB roster or in the Pirates minor league system. I'd love nothing more than to have him pitching in Wisconsin or Brevard County but the fact is we can't.

 

So keep him in the majors and save him for spots like last night where we need extended innings or when the offense finally wakes up and we have a 7-10 run lead in the 7th go to him and let him finish the game.

 

I have a much bigger problem with several spots on this roster right now than I do with Wang being on it.

[lcbj68c]

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

 

This is inaccurate. I suggest everyone read up on the rules surrounding Rule 5 here: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517

 

So, if the Brewers put him on waivers, they can't revoke it. If a team claims Wang, he's gone. There is no ability to play teams against each other to try and up trade value.

 

Everyone has been told this repeatedly for weeks, but some people continue to perpetuate the belief that the Brewers can simply call up the Pirates and work out a trade without exposing him to waivers...amongst other theories. I hope people do read the link again, thanks for posting!

[Thurston Fluff]

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

 

This is inaccurate. I suggest everyone read up on the rules surrounding Rule 5 here: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517.

 

Some items of note in the link:

 

"7. If a team decides not to keep a player selected in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 draft on its MLB 25-man Active List (and/or MLB DL), the player must be placed on Outright Assignment Waivers, where any of the other 29 MLB clubs can claim the player for the $25,000 Rule 5 waiver price and assume the Rule 5 obligations."

 

"8. If the Rule 5 player is not claimed off Outright Waivers, the player then must be offered back to the club from which he was drafted, and the player's former club can reclaim the player for $25,000, with the player being automatically outrighted to the Reserve List of the minor league club from which he was drafted. The club from which the player was drafted usually has 72 hours to decide whether to reclaim the player."

 

So, if the Brewers put him on waivers, they can't revoke it. If a team claims Wang, he's gone. There is no ability to play teams against each other to try and up trade value.

 

You can trade him without putting him on waivers. All that happens is the new team takes over the obligation to keep him on the 25 man roster or offer him back to Pittsburgh for $25k.

[adambr2]

Why would anyone trade us anything of value at all for Wang? It's a wasted roster spot for anyone who acquires him so the only ones who would likely be interested are the ones who have nothing to play for this year. Most of those teams could have had Wang themselves in the Rule 5 months ago if they really wanted him. He surely hasn't done anything to raise his trade value since then.

[Thurston Fluff]

There were 6 teams who picked a player before the Brewers so there are six teams who didn't pass because they didn't like him. They just liked someone else more. It is conceivable a team like Houston, Chicago, Philadelphia or the Mets who picked someone else would be interested in trading for him as well. Especially given the situations they find themselves in today. Given none of them are really in a playoff race they may even be willing to give up major league talent to get him. Then there are teams who felt they would be in better shape now than they are thus would be willing to look to the future more now than they were last December.

[guylanderfridancies]

I find it funny that so many people believe anyone would pull the trigger on Wang if we took him off the 25 man. No one else did back in November when they had the chance. The Pirates didn't protect him in the first place, what makes you think they want him at all. Why not take the lesser risk of throwing him out there right now? Who the hell is going to waste their 25th roster spot on him at this point in the season? NOBODY. That's who.

[HiAndTight]

Are you referring to the game the other night in Atlanta? We were only down one run.

 

Yes I was referring to the game in Atlanta(among the 6 he's pitched in) and that was the lone close game that he pitched in. The only game that someone can make a real argument that he may have "cost us."

 

 

Again though, I completely understand the logic. Kimbrel is freakishly good. He's got a career K rate of 15.2 per 9 and we had Reynolds, Davis and I believe Maldanado coming up.

 

So we weren't like going to win that game.

Most of those teams could have had Wang themselves in the Rule 5 months ago if they really wanted him. He surely hasn't done anything to raise his trade value since then.

 

Certainly? I would disagree with that. He's fulfilled a large portion of the service time that the major league team is required to have him on the active roster.

 

I have a much bigger problem with several spots on this roster right now than I do with Wang being on it.

 

Absolutely. There is SOOO much knee jerk reactions from Wang every time he has a bad outing. I don't think Wang's confidence is being hurt whatsoever since he talked about the journey to make a major league team equating it to trying to swim across the ocean. This tells me he realizes the situations he's in.

 

 

Once the Brewers replace Lyle Overbay with Hunter Morris(at least just to try it out for now), replace Herrera with Taylor Green or whoever, and go out and try and add a competent backup SS/utility IF'er for Bianchi, then maybe I'll start worrying about a roster spot that almost always sucks..for lack of a better word.

[igor67]

They didn't protect him because he was in A-ball, so they made the same kind of calculated choices teams make all the time in the Rule 5 draft. It's an upside play. Teams on average tend to be more likely to go for the not quite AAAA bench fodder types historically. And most other teams game plan accordingly.

[HiAndTight]

I find it funny that so many people believe anyone would pull the trigger on Wang if we took him off the 25 man. No one else did back in November when they had the chance. The Pirates didn't protect him in the first place, what makes you think they want him at all. Why not take the lesser risk of throwing him out there right now? Who the hell is going to waste their 25th roster spot on him at this point in the season? NOBODY. That's who.

 

 

This is the type of logic people use to justify their own beliefs. Ie, if the Pirates didn't even protect him, then they must not have thought highly of him. People used the same rationale for why Aaron Rodgers wasn't going to be a great QB. 24 teams wouldn't have passed on him if he was that good. How about Albert Pujols who teams passed on 12 times. Or Mike Trout who went 27th in the draft? They sure thought highly of him when they offered him a good sized signing bonus to sign with their organization. Perhaps they didn't believe there was a risk of him being selected? Perhaps they just have a whole lot of talent in their organization they wanted to protect.

 

 

And if you find it "that funny," that people believe other teams would pull the trigger on him, take it up with Doug Melvin who has made it clear he doesn't believe there is any chance he would clear waivers. So..must not be that funny. What's funny is the overreaction to a Rule 5 guy getting predictably rocked and everyone claiming he could cost us a playoff spot.

[TheCrew07]

I find it funny that so many people believe anyone would pull the trigger on Wang if we took him off the 25 man. No one else did back in November when they had the chance. The Pirates didn't protect him in the first place, what makes you think they want him at all. Why not take the lesser risk of throwing him out there right now? Who the hell is going to waste their 25th roster spot on him at this point in the season? NOBODY. That's who.

 

It would appear that you don't have a very good understanding of what happens with this exception draft and how 40 man rosters are typically managed. The Pirates didn't protect him because they didn't think anyone would take a player coming off TJ surgery and with less than 50 innings in A ball. Teams only add players to the 40 man to protect them from the draft if they absolutely have to, and no prospect watchers were talking about him, and certainly none expected the Brewers to grab him. I follow the minor leagues for the entire division as close as anybody on this forum and when I read the post about the Brewer's selection in the minor league forum even I said, "Who?". Pittsburgh simply had no reason to even fathom Wang would get taken.

 

Wang has decent stuff, his FB is above average, but he has the control of an A ball pitcher. Part of the problem the other night was Maldonado calling horrible pitches, you can't simply call FBs just because he's not locating. Force Wang to throw something else than what the hitters are going to be looking for, be the veteran and help the young man by adding some unpredictably to what he's throwing, a walk is better than an extra base hit. What major league hitter isn't going to be sitting fastball on a kid behind in count with very little professional experience? All of us would certainly be looking FB... it shouldn't be surprising he got crushed considering the pitches he was throwing behind in the count 3-0 and 2-0.

 

Yes he should be in A+ working as a starting pitcher and on his delivery, his arm slot was all over the place. However that doesn't mean other teams wouldn't claim him now or that's he's valueless.

 

Historically the Brewers have been horrible at developing pitching talent, I've been on Melvin and the organization for years for their sort sighted focus and the players they've targeted via trades. However I applaud this move, it was bold, Wang has legitimate talent, and we could definitely use a left handed #3 type starting pitcher in the system. It comes down to RR managing the pen in a way that makes sense, he backs himself into corners by the way he does things. Wang didn't make the most sense in the last situation he was used, but it certainly didn't have to get that bad either, he didn't have to be left out there to rot when he clearly couldn't find the strike zone.

[lcbj68c]

 

Wang has decent stuff, his FB is above average, but he has the control of an A ball pitcher. Part of the problem the other night was Maldonado calling horrible pitches, you can't simply call FBs just because he's not locating. Force Wang to throw something else than what the hitters are going to be looking for, be the veteran and help the young man by adding some unpredictably to what he's throwing, a walk is better than an extra base hit. What major league hitter isn't going to be sitting fastball on a kid behind in count with very little professional experience? All of us would certainly be looking FB... it shouldn't be surprising he got crushed considering the pitches he was throwing behind in the count 3-0 and 2-0.

 

Yes he should be in A+ working as a starting pitcher and on his delivery, his arm slot was all over the place. However that doesn't mean other teams wouldn't claim him now or that's he's valueless.

 

 

Very well said! I was going to post similiar thoughts about Maldonado's pitch selection when the game was going on, but figured it would come across as just excuses, so I didn't bother. I've liked Lucroy's game management of Wang, but not Maldonado's one bit.

[LouisEly]

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

 

This is inaccurate. I suggest everyone read up on the rules surrounding Rule 5 here: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517.

 

Some items of note in the link:

 

"7. If a team decides not to keep a player selected in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 draft on its MLB 25-man Active List (and/or MLB DL), the player must be placed on Outright Assignment Waivers, where any of the other 29 MLB clubs can claim the player for the $25,000 Rule 5 waiver price and assume the Rule 5 obligations."

 

"8. If the Rule 5 player is not claimed off Outright Waivers, the player then must be offered back to the club from which he was drafted, and the player's former club can reclaim the player for $25,000, with the player being automatically outrighted to the Reserve List of the minor league club from which he was drafted. The club from which the player was drafted usually has 72 hours to decide whether to reclaim the player."

 

So, if the Brewers put him on waivers, they can't revoke it. If a team claims Wang, he's gone. There is no ability to play teams against each other to try and up trade value.

You need to read your own link:

 

5. A player selected in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 Draft can be traded at any time

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft

 

Any player chosen in the Rule 5 draft may be traded to any team while under the Rule 5 restrictions, but the restrictions transfer to the new team. If the new team does not want to keep the player on its 25-man roster for the season, he must be offered back to the team of which he was a member when chosen in the draft.

 

And I think your link may be wrong. Unless the rules have changed recently, this happened to R.A. Dickey

 

"Dickey became a minor league free agent after the season. On November 28, 2007, he signed a minor league contract with the Minnesota Twins that included an invitation to spring training, but was claimed in the Rule 5 Draft by the Seattle Mariners on December 6, 2007.

 

On March 29, 2008, the Mariners traded minor league catcher Jair Fernandez to the Twins to retain the rights for Dickey and initially optioned him to Triple-A Tacoma, recalling him to the major league club on April 14."

 

So the Mariners and Twins worked out a trade to keep Dickey. Essentially you trade ownership of his rights so that you technically return the player, but you return him to your own team because you now own the rights.

[lcbj68c]

 

And I think your link may be wrong. Unless the rules have changed recently, this happened to R.A. Dickey

 

"Dickey became a minor league free agent after the season. On November 28, 2007, he signed a minor league contract with the Minnesota Twins that included an invitation to spring training, but was claimed in the Rule 5 Draft by the Seattle Mariners on December 6, 2007.

 

On March 29, 2008, the Mariners traded minor league catcher Jair Fernandez to the Twins to retain the rights for Dickey and initially optioned him to Triple-A Tacoma, recalling him to the major league club on April 14."

 

So the Mariners and Twins worked out a trade to keep Dickey. Essentially you trade ownership of his rights so that you technically return the player, but you return him to your own team because you now own the rights.

 

 

Nope.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080329&content_id=2464940&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb&fext=.jsp

Dickey had to clear waivers first.

 

So yes, Wang can be traded to any club BESIDES the Pirates, but the provisions of the rule 5 draft transfer to that club. That hasn't been up for debate. What CANT HAPPEN, is Wang to be traded from/with the Pirates without first being passed through unrevocable waivers, such as the Mariners and Twins did with Dickey.

[Pugger]

Then the Brewers can work out a trade with that team. You can trade a Rule 5 player to another team without exposing him to waivers first. The Brewers can rescind the waiver, see how many teams put in a waiver claim, and then play those teams against each other to get the most return in a trade.

 

There's your solution - trade Wang to a team for a LH 1B/3B.

 

This is inaccurate. I suggest everyone read up on the rules surrounding Rule 5 here: http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517.

 

Some items of note in the link:

 

"7. If a team decides not to keep a player selected in the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 draft on its MLB 25-man Active List (and/or MLB DL), the player must be placed on Outright Assignment Waivers, where any of the other 29 MLB clubs can claim the player for the $25,000 Rule 5 waiver price and assume the Rule 5 obligations."

 

"8. If the Rule 5 player is not claimed off Outright Waivers, the player then must be offered back to the club from which he was drafted, and the player's former club can reclaim the player for $25,000, with the player being automatically outrighted to the Reserve List of the minor league club from which he was drafted. The club from which the player was drafted usually has 72 hours to decide whether to reclaim the player."

 

So, if the Brewers put him on waivers, they can't revoke it. If a team claims Wang, he's gone. There is no ability to play teams against each other to try and up trade value.

 

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know how this rule worked.

[JohnBriggs12]

Well something needs to be done soon. Gallardo may miss his next start. If Thornburg takes it, they are down to 5 major league caliber relievers unless they activate Gorzellany. If they bring up Nelson or Fiers to take it, a roster spot has to be opened also. If they DL Gallardo, he'd miss at least 2 starts.

 

Personally, I don't see even the bottom teams biting on Wang off of waivers. It's one thing to try and sell fans that he's got a terrific future (which is certainly debatable given his experience) if all you have are minimal minor league numbers and good work in spring training. It's quite another when a guy is carrying an ERA of over 17.

[logan82]

Sometimes I feel like you don't realize just how much better guys are at the MLB level compared to even AA players.

[ewitkows]

They can always DL Wang if they need a short term spot. He only needs to spend 90 days on the active roster.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Wang is essentially 2/3 of the way to reaching 90 days on the active roster. If he's on the active roster in September after rosters expand and they can essentially carry a pile or relievers, there's another 30 days without him ever needing to pitch a meaninful inning and not risking bullpen overuse for the rest of the staff. This is going to be an issue for about another 2-3 weeks, then Wang's going to pull a hammy, tweak a groin, develop a blister, or injure his right hand with a salad tongs or cactus and be put on the DL.

 

Then, Wang opens the 2015 season around A ball, where he belongs right now.

[brewmann04]

TOTALLY AGREE

[JohnBriggs12]

You guys think the league is going to let them put a healthy pitcher on the DL? They open their training staff up to fines and suspensions if they falsify medical reports. The league will make sure he's actually hurt. Division rivals will see right through it. The DL thing is not going to work.

[brewcrewdue80]

You guys think the league is going to let them put a healthy pitcher on the DL? They open their training staff up to fines and suspensions if they falsify medical reports. The league will make sure he's actually hurt. Division rivals will see right through it. The DL thing is not going to work.

 

Yes. I've been thinking the same thing. Sure it sounds like a sound plan to just put him on the DL. But you are then left to that questioning? Is he actually hurt? And if he's not hurt, well he's got to be shut down while he's injured so how's that help him develop?

 

Wang's not just going to take up a roster spot for 90days this year. It's going to be longer. We're fooling ourselves if you think at 90days or just a little past we can get away with putting him on the DL for the remainder of the season unless he truly is injured just by coincidence in timing.

 

What do the (DL after 90 days) people think of the situation when Wang is healthy for the remainder of the season? He's roster worthy? Oh no, wait he can't get injured when he pitches 1IP every 10days. So do you just force the issue at 90days and pitch him multiple innings game after game no matter the result until his arm pops and you've injured him? Meanwhile the team loses 4-8 games in that process because Wang has given up 20Runs? His Avg FB is 92.34 thus far. It's not 94/95. Or more. That's what I was sold on as to the big reason you get him. Does Wang have projection to add 2-3MPH to his FB being 22? Especially!, considering he's working with the Brewers Pitching coaches?

[jerichoholicninja]

You guys think the league is going to let them put a healthy pitcher on the DL? They open their training staff up to fines and suspensions if they falsify medical reports. The league will make sure he's actually hurt. Division rivals will see right through it. The DL thing is not going to work.

 

The Brewers did this with Matt Ford. He started a few games and was then DL'd for really no reason. Players go on the DL for stupid reasons all the time. I think everyone knows what's going on and teams and the league let everyone get away this it because everyone is doing it and no one cares. Like pitchers having pine tar and other stuff on their bodies.