What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[zzzmanwitz]

We are really using Braddock and Parra as reasons that we want to keep Wang? We want to keep a kid who clearly has no business playing in MLB right now for the oft chance that 3 years from now he could perhaps turn into a league average LOOGY? I don't think this kid is nearly as talented as everyone seems to think he is. He has some zip on his fastball and has shown flashes here and there; but clearly he is a LONG ways off and a myriad of things could happen to delay or end his development.

 

I think the majority of us who want to keep him view him as a future SP, not a LOOGY.

[danzig6767]

I feel bad for the kid

 

1. He's an A ball pitcher pushed into pitching against big league hitters before he's ready.

 

2. He's rarely being used, so when actually being put into a games, he has to be rusty.

 

3. He's on a team in first place, so he likely feels extra bad when he does poorly compared to if he had been picked up instead by a team like say Houston or another bad team where his struggles would be less magnified.

 

4. He doesn't speak English and that might make him feel more isolated as his struggles on the mound mount with each appearance, even though his teammates seem very supportive of him personally.

 

When Wang was getting shelled last night, it was hard for me to watch because i felt really bad for him, to the point i turned the channel.

[TURBO]

^all true.

 

The Wang project/experiment needs to be over. Holding the team back because someday, he may be a good pitcher is just not the thing to do in this situation. If he costs us 2 or 3 games during the course of a season, and causes strain on the other bullpen guys, it's too much.

 

Make a trade with Pittsburgh or dump him, but this is ridiculous.

 

I'm sure the Pirates are getting a kick out of our situation... They know they have us by the bells, and a division rival to boot!

[JohnBriggs12]

We are really using Braddock and Parra as reasons that we want to keep Wang? We want to keep a kid who clearly has no business playing in MLB right now for the oft chance that 3 years from now he could perhaps turn into a league average LOOGY? I don't think this kid is nearly as talented as everyone seems to think he is. He has some zip on his fastball and has shown flashes here and there; but clearly he is a LONG ways off and a myriad of things could happen to delay or end his development.

 

I think the majority of us who want to keep him view him as a future SP, not a LOOGY.

 

Wang faces long, long odds. He's so far away and has accomplished so little up to now. The great ones like Kershaw and Sale, were already getting major league hitters out at the same age Wang is now. So was Gallardo. Peralta was at AA and fast tracking toward Milwaukee. This is a lost year for Wang and will no doubt set him back.

[igor67]

If you go with the 'twinge' plan you only need him to stick around another month, then he can ride the DL for a month before going on a 'rehab' assignment for a month to wrap up the minor league season and then he is back up in September where he can hang out as roster expand and then send him to the AFL. Not the best season for his development, but less of a loss than many of our prior top draft picks.

[JohnBriggs12]

Short of mishandling the Lucroys' luggage or standing too close to Ryan Braun when he's getting in his pre-AB swing routine, how exactly is he going to get a twinge?

 

Would a self respecting team doc even agree to an MRI in hopes of finding a minute rotator cuff or labrum tear when there are no symptoms?

[Patrick425]

What makes some here think Wang has no Future or potential being a 21 Year OLD Lefty who has good command, yes he has TJ Surgery but noting is written that he will need another Surgery down the road. The brewers who have lacked quality Lefty arms in the farm need to find a way to keep him in the system. There are others here on this Roster that has cost us game Just look at the Brewers bench and Keeping Overbay among others.

 

 

I don't know whether or not he has a future, but even if he's got a chance to be the next Johan Santana, the Brewers should not be keeping him this year. If we were the Astros or Cubs or a team with really no chance of competing this year, then I could see it.

 

I don't know why people think Wang would be sharp when he comes in once every 2 weeks. Even veterans would struggle with that.

 

That's kind of the point. They have such little confidence in him pitching well at this point in his career that he is on pace to pitch 26 innings this year. I don't understand how a contending team can keep a guy like this in their bullpen.

 

How realistic is the DL scenario that some are mentioning on here? Doesn't seem likely to me. Seems like it goes against the spirit of the "Rule 5" rules and that it would be pretty obvious to MLB that the Brewers would be trying to create a loophole in order to get Wang off the active roster and not be in danger of losing him. It would be great if they could do that, but then it seems like the rules surrounding the Rule 5 draft are pretty weak.

 

Also, this thought that Kimbrel was coming in and we were proabably not going to win anyways really surprises me. Is this how it's going to be this year? RRR has to basically decide when a game is "unwinable". What defines "unwinable"? Down by 6 in the 1st? Down by 4 in the 4th? Down by 3 in the 7th? Personally, I'd like to not just give up in any of those games.

[JohnBriggs12]

What makes some here think Wang has no Future or potential being a 21 Year OLD Lefty who has good command, yes he has TJ Surgery but noting is written that he will need another Surgery down the road. The brewers who have lacked quality Lefty arms in the farm need to find a way to keep him in the system. There are others here on this Roster that has cost us game Just look at the Brewers bench and Keeping Overbay among others.

 

Just for the record, Wang turned 22 on April 25.

[SRB]

He just has no business being on the MLB roster of a playoff contender. Nice story or not, "potential" or not, he does not belong on the 25 man roster at all right now.

 

This is "big boy time" right now and the roster needs to be optimized as such.

 

This would be a better argument if Lyle Overbay, Jeff Bianchi, etc. weren't on the team. You could cut Overbay, call up another RP in his place, and use Gallardo as a PH and the team would literally be better off.

[patrickgpe]

the issue that isn't being mentioned that there are atleast 3 pitchers for Nashville who have shown so far that they deserve a chance in Milwaukee, and only wooten has gotten the call (nelson, fiers). the wang experiment as results in a tired pen and the season is only 1/4 finished. I'd bring up fiers since his future as a starter isn't as bright as nelson.

[Patrick425]

He just has no business being on the MLB roster of a playoff contender. Nice story or not, "potential" or not, he does not belong on the 25 man roster at all right now.

 

This is "big boy time" right now and the roster needs to be optimized as such.

 

This would be a better argument if Lyle Overbay, Jeff Bianchi, etc. weren't on the team. You could cut Overbay, call up another RP in his place, and use Gallardo as a PH and the team would literally be better off.

 

That would be a better argument if just about every team in MLB didn't have backup position players such as Overbay and Bianchi on the bench. Without looking, I'm pretty sure that there is no other MLB team that currently has a pitcher who has been on their active roster since the start of the season (without ever missing time because of an injury) that has only 7 IP with a 17+ ERA...oh and has only pitched as high as Rookie level ball prior to this season.

 

You could have Overbay or Bianchi pitch in place of Wang and the the team would literally be better off.

[brewmann04]

Sorry 22 year old

What makes some here think Wang has no Future or potential being a 21 Year OLD Lefty who has good command, yes he has TJ Surgery but noting is written that he will need another Surgery down the road. The brewers who have lacked quality Lefty arms in the farm need to find a way to keep him in the system. There are others here on this Roster that has cost us game Just look at the Brewers bench and Keeping Overbay among others

[Crew2323]

^all true.

 

The Wang project/experiment needs to be over. Holding the team back because someday, he may be a good pitcher is just not the thing to do in this situation. If he costs us 2 or 3 games during the course of a season, and causes strain on the other bullpen guys, it's too much.

 

Make a trade with Pittsburgh or dump him, but this is ridiculous.

 

I'm sure the Pirates are getting a kick out of our situation... They know they have us by the bells, and a division rival to boot!

 

As has been mentioned, it isn't as easy as making a trade. First, the Brewers have to place Wang on waivers. If no other team claims him, then they can offer him back to Pittsburgh. But I recently read somewhere that Melvin has been told that Wang would never pass through waivers to get to the point where they could work out a trade. I could definitely see a team like Houston, Arizona, or Chicago Cubs take a flyer on him. I just don't see how Wang is any different from most team's long-reliever. Long-relievers don't pitch much or that often, but you never really hear much complaining about that roster spot being wasted.

[brewmann04]

I am also not sold this team is a Playoff team a lot of holes but we know more around the all star game.

[adambr2]

I am just not sure it's worth it anymore.

 

I would guess there is maybe a 10% chance of Wang living up to the "mid first round pick" status that some people are putting on him.

 

I would guess the chance is at least 50% that he never pitches at the MLB level after this season.

 

Everyone is afraid of losing out on the next Johan Santana, but for every one of those, you get 10 Enrique Cruz's and Jeff Bennett's.

[docduany]

So we're in first place, now. The middle of May. Does anyone who's in favor of going Loraina Bobbit with our Wang truly think we'll be in first place in May of 2015? 2016? Our minor league system is ranked last or dead last in all of MLB for a reason. As much as anyone else I'm loving the ride that the Crew is currently on. But even if we can make the playoffs this season, doing so in subsequent seasons is going to be more and more difficult.

 

How is it that we find ourselves in first? Pitching. What will we have when the likes of Yo, Loshe and Estrada are gone in a season or two? Look at St. Louis and their crazy pitching depth, we won't be able to compete with them--plain and simple. We don't now, nor will ever have the financial means to compete for elite free agent talent. Melvin & Co. believe that Wang has 1st round draft pick ability (I would concur, lefties that can throw in the 90's don't grow on trees). We need all of the upside talent we can acquire. Wang is certainly not helping us this season. But as others have stated, he's not costing us games either. I'm for riding Wang's Wild Ride out until the DL and the expanded September rosters are upon us.

[lcbj68c]

I'm just guessing but the "save face" move is to make a deal with Pirates, and the silence today has me thinking that may be happening. Pittsburgh's probably asking for an A level pitcher.

 

For the love of God...please just stop perpetuating false roster rules! He cannot be offered to the Pirates in a trade. He needs to be waived (which will be reported by MLB transactions) and then not claimed by the other 29 teams. Then and ONLY then can he be offered to the Pirates for 25K. Then and ONLY then can they decline and offer a trade.

[SRB]

He just has no business being on the MLB roster of a playoff contender. Nice story or not, "potential" or not, he does not belong on the 25 man roster at all right now.

 

This is "big boy time" right now and the roster needs to be optimized as such.

 

This would be a better argument if Lyle Overbay, Jeff Bianchi, etc. weren't on the team. You could cut Overbay, call up another RP in his place, and use Gallardo as a PH and the team would literally be better off.

 

That would be a better argument if just about every team in MLB didn't have backup position players such as Overbay and Bianchi on the bench. Without looking, I'm pretty sure that there is no other MLB team that currently has a pitcher who has been on their active roster since the start of the season (without ever missing time because of an injury) that has only 7 IP with a 17+ ERA...oh and has only pitched as high as Rookie level ball prior to this season.

 

You could have Overbay or Bianchi pitch in place of Wang and the the team would literally be better off.

 

Just about every team in MLB has a 37-year-old, 1B-only backup with a .569 OPS? I know just about every team doesn't have a Bianchi, because he currently has the third worst wRC+ of any player in baseball with >50 PA.

 

The fact remains that Wang has cost us zero games, and even last night (a loss which he did not cause) the issue was Roenicke's idiotic decision to pitch him there. He is a mop-up guy, there's nothing wrong with that. People are filling pages and pages of complaints about Wang when he is far from the issue with this team right now. The real problem is the useless bench and scuffling offense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

A mop up guy that can't get through one inning without having that .569 OPS 1B finish the inning on the hill is not a mop up guy...they can get by with Wang on the roster for now, but they're going to have a tough decision to make once Gorzelanny's back healthy. opting to keep Wang over Zach Duke, a MLB vet that can at least get MLB hitters out and serve as the ideal mop-up guy, will be tough for a team that suddenly wants to contend. The best thing that could happen is a DL stint for Wang right now, and then find a way to get him back on the roster when the pen isn't as stressed. September already guarantees him 30 days of service time with expanded rosters...they really don't need to keep him on the active roster too much longer between now and then, correct?

 

I totally agree that the main issue is an offense that's really struggled, and a lack of options on the roster to get the team scoring runs. We all knew that if certain players couldn't stay on the field (Braun, Ramirez), this team would struggle to score runs.

[Patrick425]

The fact remains that Wang has cost us zero games, and even last night (a loss which he did not cause) the issue was Roenicke's idiotic decision to pitch him there.

 

You do realize that there are ways to cost a team a win as a pitcher other than actually giving up the lead in a game, right?

 

Who do you think Roenicke should have pitched last night instead of Wang?

 

How many teams have used one position player to pitch this year, much less 2?! Tonight's game is turning into a "mop up" type game, so now what do they do? Wang threw a lot of pitches last night, so I'm guessing he will not be used, so they have to turn to using the "actual" pitchers with the threat of having another situation in the near future that Wang needs to be used in a close game situation because we have run out of arms? Can you see how Wang can cost the Brewers games without actually pitching?

[SRB]

The fact remains that Wang has cost us zero games, and even last night (a loss which he did not cause) the issue was Roenicke's idiotic decision to pitch him there.

 

You do realize that there are ways to cost a team a win as a pitcher other than actually giving up the lead in a game, right?

 

Who do you think Roenicke should have pitched last night instead of Wang?

 

How many teams have used one position player to pitch this year, much less 2?! Tonight's game is turning into a "mop up" type game, so now what do they do? Wang threw a lot of pitches last night, so I'm guessing he will not be used, so they have to turn to using the "actual" pitchers with the threat of having another situation in the near future that Wang needs to be used in a close game situation because we have run out of arms? Can you see how Wang can cost the Brewers games without actually pitching?

 

What ways are those? Because last I checked the games were still decided based on runs, the Braves scored 5 runs on non-Wang pitchers, and the Brewers only scored 4 (including getting to hit against not-Kimbrel).

 

There is zero reason to use Wang in close games. Roenicke is an idiot for having used him last night, because now in an actual mop-up situation he won't be available most likely.

 

We got through almost two months with an incredible record, a high number of 1-2 run games taxing the back of the bullpen, with the best record in baseball, and Wang was not an issue. Now he is a huge problem because our offense sucks??

[lcbj68c]

 

How many teams have used one position player to pitch this year, much less 2?! Tonight's game is turning into a "mop up" type game, so now what do they do? Wang threw a lot of pitches last night, so I'm guessing he will not be used, so they have to turn to using the "actual" pitchers with the threat of having another situation in the near future that Wang needs to be used in a close game situation because we have run out of arms? Can you see how Wang can cost the Brewers games without actually pitching?

No. What does it matter who pitches when you can't score runs? I find it laughable that people think this is a 60 win team that can't compete for a playoff spot because Wang is on it. But without him suddenly we are going to compete and be a 100 win team and the bullpen will just be the most rested and well oiled machine in the majors. I mean, get Nelson up here to Milwaukee pronto, let Duke be the long man and I can order my World Series T-shirt. Wang must be costing us atleast 85% of our losses for the strain he's been putting on the pen. Our offense ust keeps hitting and the damn bullpen is so tired that they give it all back! If we could just replace that 13th pitcher, this team could really go on a tear. Instead, we are a middling .600 club. Shameful.

[superfly]

For the love of god, you people act like Wang is this Randy Johnson clone. HE CAN'T EVEN GET THREE BATTERS OUT. Get him out of here and bring somebody that has actually earned the spot up from Nashville. This kid needs YEARS in the minors, not one.

[TooLiveBrew]

The hyperbole in the last two posts is a good example of where this conversation should steer away from. Literally no one has said Wang is turning this club into a 60-win team, and literally no one is acting like Wang is going to be as good as Randy Johnson. Relax.

[brewcrewdue80]

Finally watched Wang in action last night. I want to say the highest I saw on the Radar gun was 92MPH. His Changeup at 83 and Curve at 75/76...I mean very very consistent throwing those numbers on the offspeed stuff.

 

The fastball though. 90-92, flat typically. I'm torn, but at the same time I've changed my opinion on keeping him on the roster. Here's why:

I thought Wang's FB worked in the 92-94 range. Wang's 22 you can guess that he has 4 years of maintaining his max FB velocity and then worry about it beginning to decrease. At 92-94 that 1-2MPH drop becomes 90-92, still a reasonable velocity Fastball to use for his next 3-5 years as a SP. But, yesterday it was at 90-92 and knowing he has 3 years more than likely in the minors After completing this season the worry is he makes the Starting rotation with that 90-92FB that in 2 years has 88-90 on it.

Other thing that bothered me, his delivery is sloooow. The non HBP on Heyward and then the SB allowed on the very next pitch? That's criminal when you're a Lefty. And troublesome to me that will be an issue he has without adjusting his delivery to the plate.

Wang's Mound Presence. Gives up HR, and it just appeared like he expects that result. HBP/SB still didn't seem to get agitated with what he's doing. The 2nd HR given up, again just the look of wow, I do suck, but that's what I expect of myself, chomp away on my ridiculous thick chew in my mouth and continue to toss up BP pitches......I've seen enough.

 

Wang is too much a project with stuff that at 22, it's just not refined enough to take on. The FB isn't fast enough to let the offspeed pitches grow to continue with this project. Yes, he can turn out becoming a SP in ML, but from what I've watched this is a guy who appears to be a backend of a rotation Starter at best. You can buy those every season in FA. There's no need to continue this experiment. The velocity on the FB just isn't there to keep it going. And maybe that's why he's getting shelled. The 90MPH FB and 83MPH Changeup isn't fooling anyone. And the Curveball is a project pitch right now that needs a lot of work. He can't get by on his 2 Pitch arsenal. It sucks to admit this and say it's time to move on, but Wang isn't the future. He's a Problem today. But hey, maybe the DL injury is on it's way and there's just a couple more weeks to go before this problem is solved. The Brewers' start to the season definitely has given them a cushion to play this charade out til then.