What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[brewcrewdue80]

You CONSISTENTLY come up with this bizarre set of criteria...I "challenge you to find someone who has done exactly this,"

 

I raise those questions because what the Brewers are attempting to do is so amazingly without precedent.

 

I won't post in this thread anymore and just let Wang answer our questions.

 

This is pretty much where I'm coming from also. It's clear that some feel like this is no big deal and that teams do this all the time. I can't think of any time where a team has allowed an A ball caliber pitcher take up a roster spot with basically the assumption he he will be on the roster the entire year because of his "future potential" and we can't afford to lose him despite how poorly he pitches this year. A position rule 5 guy is a little different imho. At least a position rule 5 player can usually can fill in defensively or perhaps they have speed and can be used as pinch runners. An A ball pitcher is usually going to do much more damage than good when they are called upon. It's like the team has basically thrown in the white towel when ever they decide to put him in the game. I don't feel like that's the role of a "mop up" guy. I think they should be at least relied upon occasionally to keep the game within reason with some hope of making a come back. I personally don't think Wang is capable of doing that at the MLB level at this point in his career.

 

I'll also agree that only Wang will settle the argument posed in this thread. At some point in the future (possibly 2 or 3 years from now) we will hopefully see if this experiment worked. I honestly hope I'm wrong and that Wang turns out to A) not hurt us this year and B) be a contributing factor to the success of the Brewers in future years.

 

 

Look at the Bench depth we have with Position players vs. RP depth. Trying to hide a rule 5 position player can turn outright ugly when Gomez/Braun/ARam/Lucroy would all go down to injury. And suddenly you're left with this rule 5 position player needing to start every day for a length of time. Now Wang, as a losing the game fill in innings guy? How does that really hurt the team? The team has a AAA farm stocked with pitchers that can come in and pitch realistically well if Henderson,Kintzler, KRod were all to go down to injury at the same time. But replacing Gomez/Braun/ARam/Lucroy with their replacements and suddenly having to insert that rule 5 position guy in to the starting lineup regularly? Now the team depends on that guy to perform well every inning of every game. Wang? Under the injury riddled RP situation? You still can use him as the long relief due to a poor start and being more than likely behind 2+runs. So the situation he's in will always be at low impact to the overall team's record. Not like that position player who if required to start for a period of time.

Wang is a complete lotto ticket worth buying. He only had 13games of pro ball to go on before being eligible to acquire him. But in those 13games he showed enough to spark interest. This isn't your typical rule 5 pick up. Wang would have 4 more years typically before he'd even become eligible to get picked up via rule 5. More than likely Brewer Scouts predict he would be in the Majors before that time came. So, they tabbed him under the rule 5. What's better? A 5years yet to make it in to the Majors prospect who's 25+? or, a 21yr old with 1 year 13games under his belt who had successful numbers?

[torts]

Why does that bother you? You realize V = 5, right?

 

I don't know. I can only debate our XXV man roster so many ways. This MMXIIII season is so exciting, that I can't contain myself to not use roman numerals where they aren't normally.

 

I'm all for pointless pedantry, but: (1) it is commonly referred to as the "Rule V" draft even if the rules themselves now technically read "Rule 5"; (2) rules are commonly numbered using roman numerals, unlike your examples; (3) the reason "Rule V" is a common alternative is because the original manifestation of the draft, dating back to like 1904, was under Rule V (not Rule 5) of the constitution of the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues.

 

(PS - it's the MMXIV season)

 

http://nkayesel.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/the-rock-slow-clap.gif

[Patrick425]

Having a Rookie League pitcher on the active roster is a joke. This experiment has to end.

[folly412]

Roenicke rolling the die on the roster spot tonight. He's now in as good a position as he can be to campaign for this roster spot when Gorzelanny is activated.

[JJHardy7]

Either Wang is gone tomorrow or Brewers have no idea what they are doing. They gave up a chance to compete tonight after Wang gave up his first HR.

[trwi7]

Keep Wang. Send down Wooten for someone like Fiers who can give extended inning to save Kintzler/Smith/Thornburg from overuse.

[brewmann04]

then their should be a hugh house cleaning Overbay Henderson Bianchi and most of the Bench.

[endaround]

Since Wang can be stashed anywhere in September that will buy a easy 30 days of service right? Given its already May 20th, does that really mean Wang can be DL'd in about 2 weeks and brought back in September and get his full needed time in?

[brewmann04]

If that true their really no need to get rid of him.

[brewmann04]

Fliers is doing it in 3A forget what he did when he was up here.But to blame this all on one guy is Crazy while we have a terrible Bench and Overbay at 1st base

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think after a 40 pitch inning he couldn't even get through, mightaswell try to DL Wang now with "general soreness"...hope it passes the smell test and get a legit MLB arm on the pitching staff. If that doesn't work I think a Wooten for Figaro or Fiers swap helps a bit, but they have to start getting innings from Wang's spot that mean something, too.

[SRB]

Wang has cost us exactly zero games. It was ludicrous to use him in a 1-run game in the first place though. There is still no reason to get rid of him if they think he's a legitimate prospect. Though a convenient DL stint would be nice.

[dacbrewers]

Just throwing it out there...The Brewers will try and make him a sidearm lefty, like they did with a couple other minor league guys and he will be out of baseball in 1 to 2 years.

[HiAndTight]

Just throwing it out there...The Brewers will try and make him a sidearm lefty, like they did with a couple other minor league guys and he will be out of baseball in 1 to 2 years.

 

I'm at a complete loss as to what would make you think they would do anything like this? Which left handers have they made side arm pitchers? Certainly none who were 22 years old and pitchers that the GM considered equal to the value of a high draft pick, and one whom Melvin just said(I believe it was in Sunday's paper) that they were committed to keeping him on the roster all year long in the hopes of keeping him and developing him as a starter in the minor leagues.

 

 

The fact of the matter is we were only down 1 run, but we were also facing Kimbrel. 1 run is still just one swing of the bat, but I'd put our chances of winning that game at about 5 percent there. So Wang didn't really hurt much. Plus, it seems as if he's equally likely to give up 0 runs as he is to give up 5 runs.

 

I think after a 40 pitch inning he couldn't even get through, mightaswell try to DL Wang now with "general soreness"...hope it passes the smell test and get a legit MLB arm on the pitching staff. If that doesn't work I think a Wooten for Figaro or Fiers swap helps a bit, but they have to start getting innings from Wang's spot that mean something, too.

 

Even if it doesn't pass the smell test, what are they going to do? How do you punish a team for sending a pitcher to the DL with "shoulder fatigue," after a pour outing and have it questioned? Hell, players have gone to the DL and subsequent rehab games in the minors while disputing they were injured. Unless Wang says, "we talked about this and this is the way the Brewers are planning on keeping me on the team, but not on the 25 man," which would be insane for him to do, I don't think there is really any recourse. What's MLB going to do?

[HiAndTight]

Keep Wang. Send down Wooten for someone like Fiers who can give extended inning to save Kintzler/Smith/Thornburg from overuse.

 

 

Agreed. It's foolish to send Wang down at this point.

 

However, out of curiosity, why would you prefer Fiers over Nelson in the pen at this point? Do you prefer Fiers? Do you believe Nelson is the better starter so we're better keeping him in AAA should we need a starter at the ready?

 

I'd kinda like to see Nelson in the pen. He can give us extended innings, and he's more of a power pitcher, and I think could also pitch high leverage situations right now.

[guylanderfridancies]

It's foolish to throw him out there in a 1-run game after saying the plan was to use him as mop up. Wang as a whole is a big, long-term gamble. However, tonights decision was a real time thing. That happens once or twice, oh well. That happens 6..7..8 times on the year.. Now you're talking about costing the team a trip to the post-season.

[HiAndTight]

It's foolish to throw him out there in a 1-run game after saying the plan was to use him as mop up. Wang as a whole is a big, long-term gamble. However, tonights decision was a real time thing. That happens once or twice, oh well. That happens 6..7..8 times on the year.. Now you're talking about costing the team a trip to the post-season.

 

 

I highly, HIGHLY doubt it happens 6, 7 or 8 times this year.

 

I don't think a manager should ever give up on a game, but when you've got Reynolds, Maldanado and Davis coming up vs Craig Krimbel...well, lets just say I didn't have a whole lot of confidence they were going to get the job done.

 

It's a defeatist attitude, but..it's also realistic. Save the pen, get Wang an inning and hope for the best.

The best closer in the game vs 3 hitters who's collective OPS is under .700, and much, much worse vs right handers, it's a pretty big long shot.

 

 

You certainly have a valid point and I can understand why this is the type of move a lot of people who aren't real happy with Wang taking up a roster spot, or with Roenicke would be up in arms over this one.

[SoupTown]

Wang was throwing 88 to 90 mph tonight. Where was the usual 95.

 

Surely must be dead arm or tired arm. That is usually fixed with a 15 day DL (rest). Then a 30 say minor league build up arm strength again.

 

But, you must admit, throwing one inning a week is not a good pattern for building strength and 'go get 'em'.

[JohnBriggs12]

Wang is just another prospect who's a long way from being a major league pitcher. That the Brewers would risk anything on this guy is a complete mystery to me. Besides that, he's already had one TJ surgery and therefore is prone to another in 6 or 7 years.

 

Offer him back to Pittsburgh. They may not want to use a 40 man spot on him anyway. Get Gorzo back here and have a full compliment of major league pitchers.

[trwi7]

However, out of curiosity, why would you prefer Fiers over Nelson in the pen at this point? Do you prefer Fiers? Do you believe Nelson is the better starter so we're better keeping him in AAA should we need a starter at the ready?

 

I'd rather keep Nelson starting every day in the minors than bring him up an pitch a few innings here and there.

[fondybrewfan]

Holy mother of god is Wang bad. If he can't even do the one job he is asked to do (Occasionally go an inning or two to save the other guys) what exactly is the point of keeping him around? Frankly I am starting to wonder where the long term potential is. Just simply awful; the way this is going maybe Pitt doesn't want him back? Worst case maybe we could trade them one of the mediocre guys in our system. I don't think I will lose any sleep over his long term potential if we send him packing.

[Invader3K]

He just has no business being on the MLB roster of a playoff contender. Nice story or not, "potential" or not, he does not belong on the 25 man roster at all right now.

 

This is "big boy time" right now and the roster needs to be optimized as such.

[Outlander]

Just to make it clear since many are mentioning it they can't just offer him to Pittsburgh, every MLB team will have a chance to get Wang. If the Brewers want to trade him they are better off trying to trade him to a bad team willing to keep Wang.

[RobDeer 45]

Got to get rid of this kid this week. I was all for trying to keep him around but it's really evident he can't even be used if we are ever up, even by 10 runs. Time to go. If we can work out a trade, great, but it needs to be done this week. If we can't, take the risk that nobody picks him up.

[Patrick425]

So, if MLB said that the Brewers had to play with a 24 man roster and every other team could play with a 25 man roster would some of you be Ok with that? That's basically what the Brewers are doing, because Wang has zero worth right now at the Major League level. For a contending team to keep him in the bullpen is completely ridiculous. They might as well just put an extra position player on the roster and throw Bianchi out there to pitch every 10 or 15 days.

 

Also, I'm not sure how anyone can say with certainty that Wang has not cost the Brewers any games. If the Brewers had an available pitcher last night for the 8th inning that at least had a possiblity of holding Atlanta scoreless and they go to the 9th down by 1 (or even 2), the approach at the plate is different. I know Kimbrel is possibly the best closer in baseball, but I'll still like my chances better being down 1 or 2 than being down by 5 or 6 (or whatever it was). Also, there is a chain effect in regards to other bullpen arms. If you have one guy in the bullpen who is on pace to pitch a total of 26 innings this year, then that means that other pitchers are pitching more than they normally would. This will eventually have an effect on the rest of the bullpen arms. The Brewer starting pitchers have done a great job of going deep in ballgames so far this year. What is it, something like 34 out of 45 starts have been quality starts? I don't think it's realistic to expect that success rate to continue and the bullpen will need to be called on more and more. Having a rookie ball pitcher in the bullpen is not going to be helpful at all going forward.