What do you think of our Wang? Slot Worthy?

[sveumrules]

Can't believe all the anti-Wang sentiment around here. This guy is the best lefty prospect we've had since Zach Braddock and people want to dump him just because he can't get out MLB hitters. Every team needs a mop up guy and none of them are any good. The 2001 Mariners won 116 games with Brett Tomko contributing 34 innings of 5.19 ERA work. People would seriously give up on this guy so that Wooten or Figaro could pitch in blowouts instead?

[Warning Track Power]

People would seriously give up on this guy so that Wooten or Figaro could pitch in blowouts instead?

I think it's more the fact that they can't pitch him in close games, which leads to the taxing of the other members of the bullpen.

 

I am on the fence right now. On one hand, Wang has incredible stuff that should definitely play long term. On the other hand, our bullpen is incredibly overworked already. This has problems written all over it come July if the pen is continually used in this manner.

 

I don't know which way I am leaning right now.

[TheCrew07]

There is also a 4 minute video at the link.

 

Brewers could have Rule 5 gem in lefty reliever Wang

By Bernie Pleskoff 4/24/2014 12:08 P.M. ET

 

I remember sitting in the crowded room at the 2013 Winter Meetings Rule 5 Draft. I had a fairly good sense of almost every potential player who could be selected early that morning.

 

The Brewers selected Wei-Chung Wang, a left-handed pitcher from the Pirates organization. It was apparent I hadn't done my homework because I was not familiar with Wang. I wasn't alone. There were a considerable number of "Who?" and "What?" comments floating around the room when his name was called.

 

But the Brewers had, indeed, done their homework.

 

As it turns out, Wang was signed by Pittsburgh in October 2011. Because he required Tommy John surgery, his contract with Pittsburgh was voided and a new deal was structured. His new agreement invoked a little-known rule that required Wang be protected on the Pirates' 40-man roster or be subject to the Rule 5 Draft.

 

And that's how the 21-year-old native of Taiwan landed on the Brewers roster. The Brewers paid the Pirates $50,000 for the right to draft Wang.

 

I was shocked again when I learned that the Brewers had selected him knowing he had pitched only 47 1/3 innings for Pittsburgh's Gulf Coast League team. He had started 11 games of his 12 total appearances. He posted a 3.23 ERA and an 0.86 WHIP, walking only four and striking out 42. Yes, it was only a part of one season, but it was formidable. His surgery appeared to have been a success. His career was off and moving in the right direction. And the Brewers were aware of that.

 

Wang is ranked No. 11 on the Brewers' Top 20 Prospect list.

 

I got to see a lot of Wang during Spring Training in Maryvale, Ariz. Pitching eight out of nine outings from the bullpen, Wang was impressive.

 

He showed an outstanding calm and cool mound demeanor that looked like he was born to pitch. He had a feel for pitching that came through in his sequencing and command of each pitch in his repertoire. He had a deceptive array of pitches that included a mid-90s fastball, a solid changeup and a wicked curveball.

 

It was his curveball that caught my attention. Wang buckled the knees of both right- and left-handed hitters. He doesn't discriminate. He uses that curve at any point in the count or as an out pitch with great confidence. He threw 14 innings, giving up 15 hits and no walks. He struck out seven, and the opposition hit .283 against him. He had a WHIP of 1.07. It was a solid spring that launched him to the big league club as part of the 25-man Opening Day roster.

 

When the Pirates decided to expose him to the Rule 5 Draft, they probably thought it was unlikely that a club would select a player with only part of one professional season. And for a team to keep him, Wang must remain on the roster for the entire season or be offered back to Pittsburgh for half the purchase price, or a total of $25,000.

 

The Brewers have gotten off to a strong start. They are winning. Pitching and hitting are blending together nicely. Wang is in the bullpen for Milwaukee. He has appeared in only two games, going two innings. He was touched up in his second outing.

 

Now the Brewers have to make the decision. Do they keep Wang and allow him to virtually miss development time in the Minor Leagues? Do they offer to make a trade with Pittsburgh to keep Wang and be able to send him out for seasoning? Or, do they offer him back to the Pirates at half the original cost? Not to mention that Wang's Tommy John history has to figure in the equation somewhere as well. And given the repeat elbow surgeries we've seen recently, that has to be in the conversation.

 

Lefties like Wang -- with composure, command, control and a full repertoire -- are in high demand. The Brewers may well keep him around and then use 2015 to return him to development in the Minor Leagues. His arm may be too solid and his upside too valuable to take the chance of not retaining him for the full season.

[sveumrules]

If the rest of the bullpen is overworked at this point it has way more to do with the inordinate number of close games we've had than it has to do with Wang's presence on the roster. All teams pitch their best relievers in close games and only use their mop up guy in blowouts. I don't think there is a team in MLB that trusts every single reliever in their pen to pitch in close games.

[RobDeer 45]

I don't want to see him go to another team. I also think we may have to look at what they want in a trade. We can continue to use him in mop up, but just not sure how much mop up time there will be. He's just causing us to not have much flexibility with our roster and bullpen management. The team is in a tough spot right now with so many guys banged up, so this just adds to the mess. Not sure what the right answer is but I don't want to just see this guy walk.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If the Brewers actually stop running themselves out of potential big innings and opt to field a bench of position players that aren't walking wounded, maybe they actually score some more runs and make a handful of all these close games not as close - which would render the roster angst about Wang moot at this point.

 

I think you have to take the long view with Wang, which actually IMO meshes with the "contend now" view - being on the MLB roster doesn't help his development or this team's chances to contend, so I think it's actually worth overpaying the Pirates to work out a trade and get him in the minor leagues. The kid just soldiered through 3IP and 70 pitches after Garza didn't have it and left with a thumb bruise/blister/thing. It's obvious that Wang isn't a MLB caliber pitcher right now, but it's also obvious that he has MLB-caliber arm talent. I would be very interested in what the Pirates would want in a trade so the Brewers could send Wang down without losing him. I would be willing to part with one or more of the AAA/AAAA relief arms or starters, even one with good production but a limited MLB ceiling, in order to make that trade happen. Not talking Nelson obviously, but the Brewers are going to need to make room in the upper levels of their minor leagues to accomodate some deserved pitching promotions for prospects they have alot invested in.

[TheCrew07]

Well to be fair it's not Wang's fault we have 2 2B-only and 2 1B-only players on the roster, his status just exasperates the situation. We certainly don't have much versatility on the MLB roster but as a site we've been talking about that situation since prior to spring training.

 

More than anything the Brewers could use an extra pitcher right now but with Braun, Ramirez, and Segura out the last 2 games it hasn't been an option.

 

I have a hard time just letting go of Wang however I'm also worried what Pitt would want in return because there aren't obvious spots the Brewers' prospect strengths match up with a Pittsburgh weakness unless you're talking MLB ready pitching, and I'm not flipping Nelson or Thornburg for him. If they wanted a reliever I'd be thrilled, we have a plethora of nice relief options all through the minor league chain. I'd also give up someone like Yadiel Rivera if they were looking for a SS long-term beyond Hanson, but they have much better prospects all the way around at the top of their organization, so it's a tough match, division opponent or not.

 

With slightly different roster construction, bullpen management, and without the extra inning games having Wang on the roster wouldn't be a big deal, unfortunately it is starting to become an issue.

[dacbrewers]

Lucroy had some comments about Wang the other day...He made it sound like Wang has average stuff.

[bjkrautk]

Lucroy had some comments about Wang the other day...He made is sound like Wang has average stuff.

 

If it was the interview on Bill Michaels show, not exactly. Luc was asked if he would pitch Wang in a close game, to which he said - to his credit - 'no.' Lucroy noted that Wang's fastball velocity is great, and that his delivery makes it "sneaky fast" because it gets on the hitter so quickly; Wang's secondary pitches aren't major league ready yet, which makes it difficult to use him in high-leverage situations.

 

(I don't usually listen to the show, but I happened to catch the interview on a drive back from the Courthouse.)

[dacbrewers]

Lucroy had some comments about Wang the other day...He made is sound like Wang has average stuff.

 

If it was the interview on Bill Michaels show, not exactly. Luc was asked if he would pitch Wang in a close game, to which he said - to his credit - 'no.' Lucroy noted that Wang's fastball velocity is great, and that his delivery makes it "sneaky fast" because it gets on the hitter so quickly; Wang's secondary pitches aren't major league ready yet, which makes it difficult to use him in high-leverage situations.

 

(I don't usually listen to the show, but I happened to catch the interview on a drive back from the Courthouse.)

 

I just read part of it the other day and Lucroy said they had better options than Wang...not sure what situation they were talking about.

[markedman5]

Brewers mull whether they can keep Wei-Chung Wang

[MillerParkSouth]

I'm going to be very upset if we lose him. Shuttle guys back and forth from Nashville if need be, but for a system so lacking in impact talent, we should really find a way to keep him.

[SRB]

It's nearly May and he's still on the team, so the Brewers talent evaluators clearly think he has legitimate SP potential. It would be dumb if they gave up now because of some manufactured "roster crisis"

[ewitkows]

They need to 15 day DL someone. Sucks that they are all 3-5 game injuries but you can't keep playing short handed

[SoupTown]

Ron was very clear today. He said it is not always about NOW. Meaning give up a little now On the MLB roster to keep Wang.

 

The obvious correct move is cut Weels and bring up a multi inning reliever. My choice is Figaro

 

I agree with the above comment: why lose Wang over a manufactured roster crunch

 

And if we were 18-10 and got massacred a couple games this week there would be no problem. Non of the problem is Wangs. It is a silly 2nd base platoon and winning a lot and having close games. The last two we should not be grumpy about

[logan82]

Like others have said before, how good is the last reliever in the pen on even the best teams. It would be a huge mistake to do anything with Wang right now.

[JohnBriggs12]

Look Mike Fiers just dominated today again at AAA. He deserves to be in Milwaukee earning a major league paycheck. His former teammates on the Brewers know this as well and I'm sure it doesn't sit well with them if they were honest about it. Had Fiers been around to relieve Garza today, they might come back and won that game.

 

Wang is a prospect. He's not the 2nd coming of Clayton Kershaw or Chris Sale however. He's a guy who has a chance to be a major league pitcher 3-4 years from now. There's also a significant chance he never makes it. To maneuver a pitching staff so you can hang on to one prospect who's that far away from the majors doesn't make sense.

[Warning Track Power]

Brewers mull whether they can keep Wei-Chung Wang

The way I read this...WCWW may be over before the end of this Wednesday.

[SoupTown]

Wang is not the issue. Let is say once every 5 days you get blown out. If Wang pitches the last three innings giving up a run an inning it is fine

 

How someone can conjecture if fiers were here we would be 1 game better is silly. Would fiers have kept the cards to minus 2 runs over the last six innings leading to a victory

[ewitkows]

I would consider moving Garza to the DL. You could bring up Wooton/figaro to cover till Monday. Then bring up Nelson/Fiers for 1 start and send him back down and bring back the other reliever. It would give you an extra BP arm for the next week to 10 days

[danzig6767]

Lucroy had some comments about Wang the other day...He made is sound like Wang has average stuff.

 

If it was the interview on Bill Michaels show, not exactly. Luc was asked if he would pitch Wang in a close game, to which he said - to his credit - 'no.' Lucroy noted that Wang's fastball velocity is great, and that his delivery makes it "sneaky fast" because it gets on the hitter so quickly; Wang's secondary pitches aren't major league ready yet, which makes it difficult to use him in high-leverage situations.

 

(I don't usually listen to the show, but I happened to catch the interview on a drive back from the Courthouse.)

Watching him pitch, nearly every hard hit ball has come on his fastball.

 

Wang has a nice arm, but not electric type of arm where his fastball consistently sits in the say 94-97 range. So given he's still learning to command his secondary pitches, most MLB hitters are going to crush low 90's fastballs when they know they are coming.

 

I really want to keep the kid, but the 20-8 start to the season certainly makes things more tricky. This is one of those situations where being a real GM brings really tough decisions. Wang's struggles make it really hard to use him in any situations except big deficits up or down, yet that makes it harder for him to be successful when actually used because he's rarely pitching. I don't know what i'd do if i was Melvin.

[SoupTown]

I would consider moving Garza to the DL. You could bring up Wooton/figaro to cover till Monday. Then bring up Nelson/Fiers for 1 start and send him back down and bring back the other reliever. It would give you an extra BP arm for the next week to 10 days

 

 

Very wise thinking. We can do this all year and give guys a rest ready for October and have the extra bullpen guy. And get the odd start by our up and comers. I hope they do this

[lcbj68c]

So if we want to send him down, we have to offer him on waivers to every other MLB team right? And if he clears, we'd then have to offer him back to Pittsburgh or work out a trade with them to keep him is that accurate?

 

If you work out a trade, he can be sent down without waivers, because this would be his first option year (as his first year on any team's 40-man roster). Without a trade, he would have to clear waivers before Pittsburgh could re-claim him (without adding him to their 40-man roster?).

 

 

No, No, No. Wang CANNOT be traded to circumvent the Rule 5 draft. HE MUST BE WAIVED in order to go to the minors. If he is traded, the team he is traded to MUST keep him on their 25-man roster the same as the Brewers do. Some people have been falsely alluding that a trade can be worked out with Pittsburg to circumvent the Rule 5 draft and then send him down and that is simply not true either. The ONLY way the Brewers can send Wang to the minors is if all 3 things happen, #1- He is waived... #2 - He is not claimed by ANY of the other 29 teams who would be willing to house him on their own 25-man roster #3 - Pittsburg refuses to take him back for $25,000. Pittsburg has no incentive to trade us ANYTHING of value for somebody they can just stick back in their own 40-man for 25k. The initial comment quoted is correct, the reply is not. The same thing happened when the Twins traded R.A. Dickey to the Mariners. Dickey had to clear waivers before the teams worked out a trade.

[danzig6767]

Wang is not the issue. Let is say once every 5 days you get blown out. If Wang pitches the last three innings giving up a run an inning it is fine

 

How someone can conjecture if fiers were here we would be 1 game better is silly. Would fiers have kept the cards to minus 2 runs over the last six innings leading to a victory

I don't think the argument is that Wang has cost the Brewers wins so far. Instead, the problem is the fear of using him in any non-blowout is forcing other relief pitches to tack on extra appearances.

 

That can be ok over 30 games, but over a full 162 game season if the Brewers remain in playoff contention, it becomes more problematic. This is precisely why really young Rule 5 pitchers don't often stick with teams over a full season, especially on good teams compared to bad teams with no playoff aspirations.

[lcbj68c]

I don't think the argument is that Wang has cost the Brewers wins so far. Instead, the problem is the fear of using him in any non-blowout is forcing other relief pitches to tack on extra appearances.

 

That can be ok over 30 games, but over a full 162 game season if the Brewers remain in playoff contention, it becomes more problematic. This is precisely why really young Rule 5 pitchers don't often stick with teams over a full season, especially on good teams compared to bad teams with no playoff aspirations.

 

Except that going into today, the Brewers relievers were 26th of 30 in innings pitched and appearances. There has been no wear and tear or extra appearances out of them. The 7th reliever on 22 of the 30 teams have less appearances/innings than Wang. Wang being the 7th reliever has zero effect on the team or its capability to win. He ate innings today just the same as anybody else's 7th reliever. Releasing Wang to put Figaro in the same role adds zero wins. Since it's not affecting our ability to contend, why not keep the "piece"?