Hypothetical: Braun Relinquishing MVP - Would Help Brewers Organization/Braun

[rickh150]

Braun has said all the right things this winter and spring. Although he has not been very specific, he seems remorseful. However, what would really help? Giving up the 2011 MVP.

 

He won the award already, right? He can't win it again. It's just sitting there. Everyone knows it's a fraud. By Braun making this unprecedented move, he would turn the tables on his image. He would be not just saying the right things, he'd put an action with it. His image would turn so much for the good: Law to the proud.... grace to the humble

 

Also, this situation has hurt the image of the Brewers a bit too. When an organization's star player is branded as a cheater and an incredible liar, it can't help tickets and jersey sales. What everyone loves is a redemption case- a player that hits bottom and rebounds. The organization obviously is concerned- more than the media is letting on. So much so, that the Brewers are finally putting Braun back into its marketing plans. The Brewers even polled their season-ticket holders on their feelings about Braun. When has that ever happened? A team polling their fans about one player? No, no, this is going to linger over this franchise- maybe not for all fans, but for some, especially those that have to pay the thousands for season tickets, advertising, and corporate sponsors.

 

Doing nothing might not hurt the organization much any more; this bold move, however, would help Braun and the Brewers organization. There is no debating that.

[trwi7]

Or he could just keep the award like he should.

[rickh150]

Should the cheating 16 year old kid who dominated the Little League World Series be allowed to keep his award? I'm not asking what is legally ok. I'm asking what is morally acceptable. He cheated. He got caught. He admitted it. He should give the trophy back.

 

I obviously know he could keep it. But, really, what good is that trophy ever going to do for him ever again? Giving it back would do more for his image now. Isn't that what he is looking for? My amateur guess is that he'd give a lot of money back to gain back a better reputation.

[jerichoholicninja]

Giving it back would just draw more attention to himself and the Brewers. He wouldn't get any goodwill from it since the media would just spin it as an "everyone look at me and how sorry I am" moment. The best thing he can do is just go about his business like nothing ever happened.

[fondybrewfan]

How many awards should be given back from 1990 to 2005? I would guess a ton. Giving back the award wouldn't do anything to change the situation

[owbc]

Yes, he probably should have given it back, but it's too late now. We have to move on. The award is obviously tainted and has basically been taken away in the minds of most people.

 

Going forward, you just have to remember that he already served his punishment. The suspension is over now and he's back to being a legitimate player based on the rulebook.

[brewmann04]

I agree he should keep it

[FVBrewerFan]

I suggested this as one of several things he could do back when this all started. As owbc said though, it is too late now. I won't say he SHOULD have done it, but it would have helped his image- if only marginally.

[SRB]

Maybe it would help the image of the Brewers organization if the team relinquished all the fans who turned on their star player because ESPN told them to.

 

(Just kidding you're entitled to your opinion, but no he shouldn't give the award back.)

[JohnBriggs12]

Giambi didn't give his back. Bonds didn't give any of his back either. Sosa still has his. Clemens hasn't given back any Cy Youngs.

 

I don't think people care all that much.

[TURBO]

The only person who probably cars is Matt Kemp, but he was probably juicing too...

 

Keep the award, earn a couple more and move on...

[adambr2]

Would anyone really take it as a genuine move moreso than a PR move? Let's be honest, if Braun hadn't gotten backed into a corner and felt that a deal in a lost season was his best bet, he would still be lying about what happened.

 

He's going to get booed in every visiting stadium for a long time. He's never going to be in the Hall of Fame now. Since they chose to keep him, the best they can do is just try to avoid the subject altogether and hope that time will at least lead to the situation just sort of fading into the past with only brief memories of it now and then.

[BarneyStinston]

I don't see A-Rod relinquishing all of his awards: 3 MVPs, 2 gold gloves, 4 Hank Aaron awards, and 10 Silver Sluggers. Once the first guy from the steroid era makes it in the HOF and it is revealed that that guy took steroids after the fact, the rest will quickly follow, and Braun will make it in. All it takes is a guy like Cal Ripken admitting that he occasionally took banned steroids to cope with nagging injuries and keep the streak alive.

[rickh150]

Sad society....

 

Most people so far think he should keep it. Why? They pick Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens for support. Since they kept their awards, Braun should keep his.

 

People who cheat during a season SHOULDn't keep the awards won in a cheat season.

 

I can't believe there isn't more support for this. Like saying it would make you less of a Braun or Brewers fan. Forget about what will happen or what is "fair" in regards to the other cheaters, what SHOULD happen?

So far, the sound of most from this thread is "If you can get away with it, do it." How about the 16 year old Little Leaguer? Does anyone support him too? He got away winning the Little League World Series... dominated it. Not until weeks after did he get caught.... He and Braun are in the same boat.... Should he keep his trophy too?

[Baldkin]

Sad society....

 

Most people so far think he should keep it. Why? They pick Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens for support. Since they kept their awards, Braun should keep his.

 

People who cheat during a season SHOULDn't keep the awards won in a cheat season.

 

I can't believe there isn't more support for this. Like saying it would make you less of a Braun or Brewers fan. Forget about what will happen or what is "fair" in regards to the other cheaters, what SHOULD happen?

So far, the sound of most from this thread is "If you can get away with it, do it." How about the 16 year old Little Leaguer? Does anyone support him too? He got away winning the Little League World Series... dominated it. Not until weeks after did he get caught.... He and Braun are in the same boat.... Should he keep his trophy too?

 

Yes, what a terrible, horrible society, villianizing guys who take drugs to make themselves better at their job, while continuing to cheer on wife beaters and drunk drivers.

[jjkoestler]

Sad society....

 

We live in a sad society because everyone doesn't agree with your "morals?"

 

Most people so far think he should keep it. Why? They pick Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens for support. Since they kept their awards, Braun should keep his.

 

Previous posters told you why they think Braun should keep the award.

 

People who cheat during a season SHOULDn't keep the awards won in a cheat season.

 

That's your opinion. Others disagree.

 

I can't believe there isn't more support for this. Like saying it would make you less of a Braun or Brewers fan. Forget about what will happen or what is "fair" in regards to the other cheaters, what SHOULD happen?

 

Braun should keep the award.

 

So far, the sound of most from this thread is "If you can get away with it, do it." How about the 16 year old Little Leaguer? Does anyone support him too? He got away winning the Little League World Series... dominated it. Not until weeks after did he get caught.... He and Braun are in the same boat.... Should he keep his trophy too?

 

Strawman

[rickh150]

As part of Dominican officials' investigation, Victor Romero, head of the national public records office, interviewed the witnesses whose signatures appeared on the 1989 birth certificate. They both denied knowing Danny's parents, let alone signing the certificate. On August 31, Romero announced that Danny had in fact been born in 1987.

As a result, Danny was retroactively declared ineligible, and the Baby Bombers had to forfeit all their wins in tournament play. All of their records were removed from the books, and the team was required to demonstrate compliance with all regulations before entering the 2002 tournament. Felipe Almonte was banned from Little League competition for life. Paulino was also banned, since Little League rules make the league president responsible for player eligibility. Dominican prosecutors filed criminal charges against Felipe Almonte for falsifying a birth certificate. Danny, who did not speak English at the time, apparently knew nothing about the falsified documents, and was cleared of wrongdoing. Little League president Stephen Keener said that Danny and his teammates had been "used ... in a most contemptible and despicable way" and that "millions of Little Leaguers around the world were deceived." ESPN's Jim Caple called Felipe Almonte "the worst stereotype of the Little League parent sprung to life."[3] Danny's godmother later begged forgiveness, saying that "we had to commit this little fraud" to give Danny a chance to compete in a tournament as significant as the Little League World Series.[4]

 

Baldkin, should this kid have been allowed to keep his trophy?

 

By the way, I'm all for redemption and 2nd, 3rd and 77 chances. I recognize sin as sin, me being the biggest sinner. That being said, should we dismiss bad action because everyone is bad? In essence, should we even try to live morally, try to run a clean league, try to set rules to govern fairly?

[trwi7]

I think he and his team should've been allowed to keep their trophies. It says in the quote you posted that he knew nothing of the falsified documents, so how can you take that away from him knowing that?

[rickh150]

The kid broke the rules. He took a championship from another team. Braun broke the Player Association approved MLB rules. He should give back the 2011 MVP.

I'm all for Braun. I'm still a fan and am rooting for him to be better than ever. Giving back a tainted award couldn't hurt his image one bit. It would only help it, including the image of his employer.

[trwi7]

The kid broke the rules.

 

He broke rules that he had no idea he was breaking.

[JimH5]

I am finished being angry at Braun for his PED violation and suspension.

 

I will not forget his violation of our trust, but it doesn't do me any good to keep expecting more information on his drug history.

 

He's served his suspension. He reached out to fans, he has been exposed as a cheater and liar, and he's shown contrition.

 

He doesn't need to forfeit his MVP award, because it's tainted. It's clear to everyone that it's meaningless, so having it or not having it doesn't matter. It's not like the voters are going to cast their votes again for Kemp or a different guy.

[homer]

The only way Braun would truly win back the maximum number of fans/media possible is if he came totally clean about his entire steroid history. I'm guessing it's not limited to the brief time in 2011 or whenever it was. Then he'd have to give back his MVP and take any and all questions in an open forum. That still would not be enough for Buster Olney though.

[folly412]

Giving it back would just draw more attention to himself and the Brewers. He wouldn't get any goodwill from it since the media would just spin it as an "everyone look at me and how sorry I am" moment. The best thing he can do is just go about his business like nothing ever happened.

 

Agree with this. Trying to move on doesn't involve going back and (symbolically) undoing the past. Re-opening that can, even with good intentions would be ill-advised. Stay in the present.

[SRB]

Even setting aside the millions of reasons why Braun should in no way have to give up his justly-earned awards, who would you give it to instead?

 

There seems to be an unrealistic state of disbelief among the anti-PED crowd about the number of prominent major leaguers who are routinely violating the basic drug agreement. The real lesson of the Biogenesis scandal was just how easy players think they can circumvent the testing system. I mean, Braun cheated death in 2011 and then went right back to using (presumably quite confident he wouldn't fail any more tests). I assure you, the level of PEDs in the MLB extends far beyond some shady guy in Miami with a handful of clients.

 

*Edit -- Also, how about my just-devised theory? The reason A-Rod and Braun were the only real star players who had to go through a place like Biogensis is because they became too risky for whoever is/are the top-rate supplier(s) to keep dealing with them. A-Rod was already a known steroid-user and Braun had just screwed up and failed a test. Much easier for whoever the big dealers lurking behind the scenes are to cut them loose in order to avoid an investigation and forcing MLB's hand. Biogenesis proved that the testing system is a joke. I'm sure whoever supplies other star players is much more discrete than Anthony Bosch.

[The stache]

With all apologies to the original poster, this is a pointless discussion.

 

The MVP Award is handed out based on performance in the regular season. The only drug test of Ryan Braun's professional career that has ever shown any abnormality is one taken during the 2011 post season. By the time Game One of the National League Division Series had started, all the MVP votes had already been submitted by the BBWAA. Ryan Braun could have hit 10 home runs against the Diamondbacks, and ran the bases along side a naked Kate Upton, and the ghost of Ted Williams screaming "Ryan Braun is the greatest hitter I have ever seen, and Ty Cobb agrees with me!", and it would have had absolutely zero impact on his chances to win the MVP Award. None.

 

So, his positive drug test taken after a post season game, likewise, should have, and does have, no impact whatsoever on his 2011 NL MVP Award.

 

There is no reason for Ryan Braun to give back his MVP Award. None.