Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers sign Lara for $3.2 million (post #77)

[jvrocksaz]

More confirmation...

 

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/07/brewers-to-sign-gilbert-lara.html

[monty57]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mil/brewers-lock-up-star-international-prospect-gilbert-lara?ymd=20140628&content_id=82057432&vkey=news_mil

 

Brewers' own site confirms the signing

[monty57]

I wouldn't worry too much about having too much talent at one position at this point in time. Arcia is 20 next month, Gatewood is 18, and Lara is 16. Even if they all reach their potential and become regular MLB starters, there is plenty of time before the Brewers will have to worry about making room for all of them on the MLB roster.

 

It does add talent to the system, giving us options for the future, which is always a good thing.

[brewmann04]

spot on Monty57

[reillymcshane]

I wouldn't worry too much about having too much talent at one position at this point in time. Arcia is 20 next month, Gatewood is 18, and Lara is 16. Even if they all reach their potential and become regular MLB starters, there is plenty of time before the Brewers will have to worry about making room for all of them on the MLB roster.

 

It does add talent to the system, giving us options for the future, which is always a good thing.

Totally agree. So much can happen to these guys (good and bad), you can't worry about down the road too much.

 

It's a lot easier to move a guy off shortstop to 2B or 3B or wherever than the other way around.

 

If in five years we a stud SS prospect at AAA blocked by a stud SS in Milwaukee, I'll be thrilled. At that point, someone is transitioned to a new spot - or dealt.

[Noche]

Fantastic signing clearly. What a year the scouting staff is having. Tremendous.

[3and2Fastball]

I'm thrilled that the Lara signing is official. I have plenty of high hopes for him

 

I would imagine that, since he's only 16, he'll play in a Dominican League for at least the next 2 years. Where can I follow stats to check his progress until he makes it to Rookie Ball?

[TheCrew07]

The daily Link Reports same as every prospect in the system.

 

edit. If you mean season stats both milb.com and baseball-reference.com have the Dominican Summer League stats.

[colbyjack]

I have to say this, and I mean it quite seriously, even if none of Medeiros, Gatewood, Harrison or Lara make it, I give the Brewers a ton of credit for ponying up $9+ million to sign these immensely talented players. Lara got the most of all of them, which is unprecedented for the Brewers on the international front.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Lara can't start playing in the Dominican League until next year, so don't panic when you don't see his name in a box score for a while.

[HiAndTight]

Keep in mind we are talking about a 16-year-old who may or may not have ever set foot outside the Dominican Republic. He is not touring on a high school/college circuit and I doubt even Baseball America or MLB.com have multiple great sources who have seen these international prospects play very much.

 

I suspect the greatest objective "scouting report" of these prospects' value is the actual dollar figures they end up securing from MLB teams. The fact that the Brewers are willing to break the bank and give an unprecedented (for Milwaukee) $3-3.5M for Lara indicates he is pretty good. If he doesn't have the tools to stick at SS, then that probably means they think his bat is extremely impressive even at 1B/LF. If his bat isn't quite that good, then that probably means they think he can stick at SS or at least 3B.

 

We'll find out whether Lara has long-term potential at SS when we see how the Brewers handle him after (hopefully) signing him in a couple weeks.

 

 

Exactly. I agree with you here. Far too often we say someone is more likely to move based on A-probability as most often the best players when you're 14,15,16 play SS, and B-With SO little information available on him, to have a strong opinion on how he projects as a major leaguer at this point is just kinda silly.

 

But when I initially asked the question responding to the comment, "it LOOKS to me like he'll end up at 3rd base," I was asking if that poster had even seen him play other than the 30 second highlight clips they show you.

 

I've read for he's fluid, has good hands and a very strong arm. And he's 16. So it sounds like as much as anything, some are just guessing that he's going to get bigger and as such, when he's 24, he won't be able to play SS. That's kinda intellectually lazy to me. It's perfectly fine to say, he plays SS now, he MIGHT not stick there.

 

I don't think they should make any decision on where to play Lara based on MLB needs. He probably at least 6 years away from the majors. You don't draft based on MLB needs why would you make a decision like that based on MLB needs with a guy at least 2 years younger than anyone entering the draft? You play a guy at the toughest position he can handle and worry about it when he is MLB ready. Like they did with Lucroy.

 

Exactly Logan. We're talking about guys who are more than likely never going to be regular big league starters. Don't get me wrong, all three have a ton of talent and that's why the last two were drafted/signed in Gatewood and Lara. But at 16 and 18, what percent of the time do they develop into such good players(both of them along with Arcia mind you) that the Brewers are ALREADY counting on moving him because he's "blocked." It's a lifetime from now until when either would most likely be ready for the big leagues even if everything goes well. Arcia is looking very good, but he may end up being a really good utility IF'er.

 

Point is, when you have a guy who is athletic, and reportedly has good hands, and a really good bat, throw him out there at SS. If we're lucky enough to see Gatewood and his massive power develop, Arcia and his great glove continue to impress defensively and Lara come through and hit his ceiling, well how hard is it for a SS to move in AA from SS to 3rd or 2nd or the OF? Give me a team of big, physical, power hitters who have played SS, have good hands and good athletic ability, and I feel pretty confident you can move them later on if the need arises and they'll adjust just fine.

 

And you make a great point with Lucroy. There were a lot of questions about his defense and that was coming out of college. Let these kids play for at least a LITTLE while at the premium positions before we declare him unable to play there long term. And notice, I'm not even suggesting he can play there. I've only seen short video's as opposed to Coulter whom I've seen on several occasions and clearly has the potential and ability to stick behind the plate.

 

There was also an ACTUAL consensus that Segura couldn't hack it at SS by BA and other outlets(in large part because of his size and build) and he certainly has proven that wrong.

[HiAndTight]

I have to say this, and I mean it quite seriously, even if none of Medeiros, Gatewood, Harrison or Lara make it, I give the Brewers a ton of credit for ponying up $9+ million to sign these immensely talented players. Lara got the most of all of them, which is unprecedented for the Brewers on the international front.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Lara can't start playing in the Dominican League until next year, so don't panic when you don't see his name in a box score for a while.

 

 

I agree. There is no crystal ball. They took what most appear to believe were three very talented players with very high ceilings in the draft and went over slot to sign them, and then went out and got arguably the most talented Latin American player on the market.

 

If these guys top out at BC or Huntsville, it won't change my opinion that they had the right mindset.

 

 

Great to see him signed after all the hand wringing over how the Yankees were going to swoop in and take him away from us.

[Noche]

I have to say this, and I mean it quite seriously, even if none of Medeiros, Gatewood, Harrison or Lara make it, I give the Brewers a ton of credit for ponying up $9+ million to sign these immensely talented players. Lara got the most of all of them, which is unprecedented for the Brewers on the international front.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Lara can't start playing in the Dominican League until next year, so don't panic when you don't see his name in a box score for a while.

 

Totally agree. Throw in Franly Mallen, Nicolas Pierre, Devin Williams and Tucker Neuhaus, another $3-4M worth of bonuses, and the message is loud and clear.

[Mass Haas]

Interesting note picked up on by MLBTradeRumors --

 

"The Brewers won’t announce their signing of Dominican shortstop Gilbert Lara yet due to the fact that they’re expecting a change to their international bonus pool, reports Dionisio Soldevila of ESPN Deportes (Twitter link). Teams can acquire additional bonus money as long as they’ve yet to exceed their bonus pool, so it appears they’ll try to land some additional slots before making the Lara deal official. The two sides reportedly agreed to terms on a $3.2MM signing bonus yesterday, but the team has made no statement. Milwaukee has a bonus pool just north of $2.6MM, per Baseball America."

[LouisEly]

Interesting they used the word "expecting". I wonder who or what they will trade to acquire that bonus pool space?

 

Even if they don't acquire more bonus pool room, if they stay in first place they won't have much of a bonus pool next year anyway so not being able to sign anyone for more than $300k won't be that much of an issue.

[homer]

I wouldn't worry too much about having too much talent at one position at this point in time. Arcia is 20 next month, Gatewood is 18, and Lara is 16. Even if they all reach their potential and become regular MLB starters, there is plenty of time before the Brewers will have to worry about making room for all of them on the MLB roster.

 

It does add talent to the system, giving us options for the future, which is always a good thing.

 

 

Agreed. And most shortstops can play anywhere on the diamond. Usually the best athletes on the team.

[trwi7]

Interesting note picked up on by MLBTradeRumors --

 

"The Brewers won’t announce their signing of Dominican shortstop Gilbert Lara yet due to the fact that they’re expecting a change to their international bonus pool, reports Dionisio Soldevila of ESPN Deportes (Twitter link). Teams can acquire additional bonus money as long as they’ve yet to exceed their bonus pool, so it appears they’ll try to land some additional slots before making the Lara deal official. The two sides reportedly agreed to terms on a $3.2MM signing bonus yesterday, but the team has made no statement. Milwaukee has a bonus pool just north of $2.6MM, per Baseball America."

 

And here it is.

 

 

Brewers Player Dev ‏@BrewersPD

 

RHP Rodolfo Fernandez has been traded to Oakland in exchange for International Signing Bonus Slot #57 ($339,000)

 

 

Edit: Assuming the $3.2 million figure, that still puts the Brewers between 5-10% over their current bonus pool which means they are taxed a 100% overage and can't sign an international free agent for more than $500K next year.

[igor67]

Technically they are separate transactions, but this certainly looks like a little bit of balancing the scales from the Brad Mills trade. It's easy to discount vague phrases like 'future considerations' or 'cash considerations', but actually getting deals done is difficult and goodwill from other GMs goes a long way.

[jjfanec]

It sounds like the Brewers are still trying to acquire slot values. BA has a piece on it today which explains the whole process pretty well.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/brewers-acquiring-international-slot-values/

[TheCrew07]

I had completely missed this would be the case...

 

Teams can sign unlimited players for $10,000 or less that won’t count against their pools, but those six exemptions of $50,000 or less are gone this year, a clever way for MLB to wipe away $9 million from the bonus pools while still being able to technically claim that bonus pools rose from last year.

 

The old exemptions are gone, the Brewers will need all the space they can get to sign anyone over else over 10K.

[LouisEly]

If the Brewers hang on (knock on wood) and finish with one of the top three records in baseball they will only have ~$1.2M in international bonus cap space next year. Two guys @$500K each would take up most of the bonus cap space anyway.

[TheCrew07]

Apparently official now, are the Brewers paying the full penalty or did they find more bonus space which hasn't been announced?

 

Regardless this draft/signing period has been exactly what I've been asking for, I'm extremely excited.

[reillymcshane]

Apparently official now, are the Brewers paying the full penalty or did they find more bonus space which hasn't been announced?

 

Regardless this draft/signing period has been exactly what I've been asking for, I'm extremely excited.

Lara signed for $3.1 million according to the article. The Crew has $2,950,800 available.

 

If my calculations are correct, we are slightly above the 5% overage if the numbers are exact. The team needs to give Lara under $3,098,340 to be below the 5% over mark (again, assuming my math is correct).

 

I would imagine the contract is just south of the mark to avoid the 'no signing anyone for over 500k' penalty for next season. That's less than $2,000 difference between being over or being under the 500k mark.

 

Of course, maybe they got another slot from someone. That would make things a lot simpler.

[HiAndTight]

Lara signed for $3.1 million according to the article. The Crew has $2,950,800 available.

 

If my calculations are correct, we are slightly above the 5% overage if the numbers are exact. The team needs to give Lara under $3,098,340 to be below the 5% over mark (again, assuming my math is correct).

 

I would imagine the contract is just south of the mark to avoid the 'no signing anyone for over 500k' penalty for next season. That's less than $2,000 difference between being over or being under the 500k mark.

 

Of course, maybe they got another slot from someone. That would make things a lot simpler.

 

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but are minor league salaries, Dominican league salaries set? Or could the Brewers give him 3,098,340 and then guarantee him a higher salary so that he ends up making up the difference over 3-4 years?

 

I guess I would assume there are pretty strict limits on what you can play minor league players otherwise the entire bonus system and each teams allotment would be kind of pointless. But I'm just curious if there is any room to maneuver there?

[reillymcshane]

Lara signed for $3.1 million according to the article. The Crew has $2,950,800 available.

 

If my calculations are correct, we are slightly above the 5% overage if the numbers are exact. The team needs to give Lara under $3,098,340 to be below the 5% over mark (again, assuming my math is correct).

 

I would imagine the contract is just south of the mark to avoid the 'no signing anyone for over 500k' penalty for next season. That's less than $2,000 difference between being over or being under the 500k mark.

 

Of course, maybe they got another slot from someone. That would make things a lot simpler.

 

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but are minor league salaries, Dominican league salaries set? Or could the Brewers give him 3,098,340 and then guarantee him a higher salary so that he ends up making up the difference over 3-4 years?

 

I guess I would assume there are pretty strict limits on what you can play minor league players otherwise the entire bonus system and each teams allotment would be kind of pointless. But I'm just curious if there is any room to maneuver there?

 

I assume there's some controls in place. Otherwise a team would simply give elevated guaranteed salaries to draft picks and international signings to circumvent the signing pools.

[HiAndTight]

 

I assume there's some controls in place. Otherwise a team would simply give elevated guaranteed salaries to draft picks and international signings to circumvent the signing pools.

 

 

Well obviously they can't pay them 1 million a year when the rest of the DSL guys are making 12K, but I wonder if there is any room to maneuver in there.