Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers sign Lara for $3.2 million (post #77)

[TheCrew07]

No, the only SS who looks like he could be an everyday MLB player is Arcia who will be 4 levels ahead of Lara who may not end up at SS long-term himself.

 

edit. I didn't mean that the way it came off, Arcia is a true defensive MLB SS, players like Gatewood and Neuhaus could end up playing different positions, as may Lara.

[3and2Fastball]

Assuming we sign our 2nd pick of the draft, SS, Jake Gatewood, do you think this could negatively influence the potential Gilbert Lara signing? Might Lara look at the Brewers and see a talented logjam at SS- and think there might be a better opportunity somewhere else?

 

I don't think so, though that is a good & valid question. Lara is 16 years old and is a legit blue-chip top flight prospect. Similar to many Dominican Republic athletes, he is an extremely confident ballplayer. Most Dominican Republic baseball players don't think there is any way possible that an American can out-play or especially out-work them. And oftentimes they are right. I seriously doubt Gatewood will ever develop the defensive skills of Lara. The question as always is can they hit MLB pitching?

 

Lara looks incredible. I like his swings way better than Gatewood, and Gatewood is amazing in his own right

 

http://dplbaseball.com/scouts-corner/gilbert-lara-ss-2014/

[CheezWizHed]

At 6'5", you have to wonder if Gatewood will stick at SS himself. Neuhaus was moved to 3B or at least part time.

 

And there are always good trading partners if you have too many SSs that can hit.

[brewcrewdue80]

Having too many SSs hasn't been a problem for the Rangers filling up on more. They even drafted Ti'Quan Forbes a talented SS. Anyway when it comes to Lara, he to me looks destined for 3b. Gatewood wants to be Troy Tulowitzki playing SS, so I can imagine his focus is to remain there. If all three come on up and arrive within say a year of Arcia I'll just imagine Arcia at 2b/Gatewood at SS/ Lara at 3b. With Gatewood moving to 3b if Lara is hurt. Arcia moving to SS if Gatewood is hurt. Our utility at that moment covering 2b if Arcia winds up hurt. Now we just need a true impact 1b prospect!

[James Zumstein]

Having too many SSs hasn't been a problem for the Rangers filling up on more. They even drafted Ti'Quan Forbes a talented SS. Anyway when it comes to Lara, he to me looks destined for 3b. Gatewood wants to be Troy Tulowitzki playing SS, so I can imagine his focus is to remain there. If all three come on up and arrive within say a year of Arcia I'll just imagine Arcia at 2b/Gatewood at SS/ Lara at 3b. With Gatewood moving to 3b if Lara is hurt. Arcia moving to SS if Gatewood is hurt. Our utility at that moment covering 2b if Arcia winds up hurt. Now we just need a true impact 1b prospect!

 

This is exactly how I have it also. As far as 1B, we could still see Coulter move there down the road if he doesn't pan out at catcher. Now that would be an infield!

[SRB]

Fantasy 2019 Lineup!

 

C - Clint Coulter (25)

1B - Old Man Braun (35)

2B - Jacob Gatewood (23)

SS - Orlando Arcia (24)

3B - Gilbert Lara (21)

LF - Victor Roache (28) (Hey, I said fantasy. Though Khris Davis will still be under team control, I think?)

CF - Tyrone Taylor (25)

RF - Monte Harrison (23)

 

If Gatewood can stick at SS then that's fantastic, but in the scenario where both he and Arcia become top prospects, I think Gatewood is the one who moves to 2B. Arcia has a great arm.

[lcbj68c]

Given that Lara is 16 years old, how soon could he be playing in the system? Could he be in Appleton in 2015, or does he have to wait until he is 18 years old? Would there be visa issues for him as a minor?

[SRB]

Given that Lara is 16 years old, how soon could he be playing in the system? Could he be in Appleton in 2015, or does he have to wait until he is 18 years old? Would there be visa issues for him as a minor?

 

These guys are all given visas under a special category, and I don't think his age matters. I imagine he would play in Rookie ball at 17 and then make the jump to low-A at 18. That seems to be the timetable for most international prospects, e.g. Miguel Cabrera, Alcides Escobar.

[superfly]

Wow does this kid have a pretty swing...time to start praying for him to sign on the dotted line.

[Warning Track Power]

Mlb.com says we're the front runners to sign him:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/ipad/#list=int

[BallFour]

Take it for what it is worth but Max Wildstein lead writer for Calltothepen tweets that Lara has agreed with Brewers for 3.2 Million. Later tweets won't obviously be official till July 2nd.

 

https://twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status/480078212614336512

[BallFour]

Mlb.com says we're the front runners to sign him:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/ipad/#list=int

 

It is funny looking at the whole top 30 the Yankees are the favorite for like half of the prospects listed mine as well spend it somewhere Yanks...

[Eye Black]

Take it for what it is worth but Max Wildstein lead writer for Calltothepen tweets that Lara has agreed with Brewers for 3.2 Million. Later tweets won't obviously be official till July 2nd.

 

https://twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status/480078212614336512

I would feel even better about it if he spelled his name correctly, but it is certainly better than hearing Lara has agreed to a deal with someone else.

[HiAndTight]

Having too many SSs hasn't been a problem for the Rangers filling up on more. They even drafted Ti'Quan Forbes a talented SS. Anyway when it comes to Lara, he to me looks destined for 3b. Gatewood wants to be Troy Tulowitzki playing SS, so I can imagine his focus is to remain there. If all three come on up and arrive within say a year of Arcia I'll just imagine Arcia at 2b/Gatewood at SS/ Lara at 3b. With Gatewood moving to 3b if Lara is hurt. Arcia moving to SS if Gatewood is hurt. Our utility at that moment covering 2b if Arcia winds up hurt. Now we just need a true impact 1b prospect!

 

How does Lara look like he is destined for 3rd right now? I've only seen a few clips here and there, so I'm not sure where the 16 year old will end up. What's your opinion that he's not a SS based on?

[And That]

The scouting consensus seems to be that Lara will not stick at shortstop, and I've seen corner outfield mentioned more often than third base recently.

[bjkrautk]

 

ICYMI, colleague @JesseSanchezMLB previewed upcoming int'l signing period. Ranks #Brewers' Lara 4th-best available: http://atmlb.com/1qFiJzE

 

Not sure if he knows something, or is just reading the expected consensus, but was surprised to see the use of possessive language in McCalvy's tweet.

[HiAndTight]

The scouting consensus seems to be that Lara will not stick at shortstop, and I've seen corner outfield mentioned more often than third base recently.

 

 

I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..

 

From most of the articles I've read he's a very smooth defensive IF'er with a very strong arm. I guess I just think some of this, "he's not going to stick at...whatever position," commentary is getting more and more ridiculous and it's usually based on size and industry norms. People are so eager to move Coulter despite the fact that he's just 20 and has elite tools to be a catcher(and has greatly improved back there as well).

 

Now we're projecting that a 16 year old kid isn't going to stick at SS because of his frame? Look at guys like Tulo or Ripken. Guys come in all different body types. But I haven't seen Lara. I have seen Coulter quite a bit. Obviously a lot of guys who come up as SS's have to move. But lets see him play a couple years there first.

 

 

Likely the second best overall prospect available for the July 2 signing period, Lara is a big rangy shortstop with an exciting combination of tools. Scouts love his athleticism, projectable frame, and top level bat speed. At the plate Lara is an aggressive hitter. He has natural loft in his swing and the ball really carries, which should allow him to hit for double digit homeruns if he can refine his raw hitting approach. There are times when he’ll pull off the ball trying to drive it, or lunge out against off speed pitches as he did against Huascor Ynoa in their at bat. His pitch recognition isn’t the greatest right now, but will hopefully improve with time. Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either. As athletic as he is, you probably wouldn’t immediately think infielder just by looking at him. I can’t think of a natural comparison except maybe a right handed hitting Curtis Granderson. He has the same combination of power and speed, and similar hitting mechanics with the hands high and close to the body and the leg lift trigger. Reports connect him to the Royals and Brewers for close to the 3 million Dermis is expected to get from the Yankees.

[And That]

I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..

Kiley McDaniel:

Gilbert Lara has the loose, handsy, fluid swing that scouts are looking for with the plus bat speed and raw power to project as a future All-Star. He hit a number of balls out to left field at the heavily scouted MLB showcase and hit a triple and homerun in the game portion of the event. The chatter among scouts is the Dominican third baseman has an agreement with the Milwaukee Brewers for a $3.2 million bonus.

MLB.com:

He's a shortstop now but could end up at third base or right field because of his future arm and decent hands.

Baseball America:

Lara has some of the best raw power in the 2014 international signing class. At 6-foot-3, 205 pounds, he’s bigger and more physical than most of the kids for this year, and he’s shown the ability to take the ball over the fence in game situations, even with a grip-and-rip approach that leads to some empty hacks. He won’t be a shortstop, but he will get paid for his offensive upside. His bonus is expected to be more than $3 million.

Baseball America a few weeks later:

Lara has a chance to play third base, but most scouts peg him as a future left fielder or first baseman, so he’s going to produce at a level at the plate to have value.

Baseball America yet again:

Lara can’t play shortstop, and while he will get a chance to play third base, several scouts think he’s a future left fielder or first baseman, which will put a lot of pressure on his bat.

That thing you quoted, from a Toronto Blue Jays fan blog:

Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either (?).

 

So basically, we have Baseball America sourcing scouts saying he can't play shortstop, Kiley McDaniel not even providing it as an option, MLB.com hazy at best about the prospect, and some Blue Jays blog saying he looks like Curtis Granderson on the infield, but he's certainly no either.

 

You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions, but to me Baseball America and Kiley McDaniel hold more water than the grammar-impaired Breaking Blue.

[HiAndTight]

I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..

Kiley McDaniel:

Gilbert Lara has the loose, handsy, fluid swing that scouts are looking for with the plus bat speed and raw power to project as a future All-Star. He hit a number of balls out to left field at the heavily scouted MLB showcase and hit a triple and homerun in the game portion of the event. The chatter among scouts is the Dominican third baseman has an agreement with the Milwaukee Brewers for a $3.2 million bonus.

MLB.com:

He's a shortstop now but could end up at third base or right field because of his future arm and decent hands.

Baseball America:

Lara has some of the best raw power in the 2014 international signing class. At 6-foot-3, 205 pounds, he’s bigger and more physical than most of the kids for this year, and he’s shown the ability to take the ball over the fence in game situations, even with a grip-and-rip approach that leads to some empty hacks. He won’t be a shortstop, but he will get paid for his offensive upside. His bonus is expected to be more than $3 million.

Baseball America a few weeks later:

Lara has a chance to play third base, but most scouts peg him as a future left fielder or first baseman, so he’s going to produce at a level at the plate to have value.

Baseball America yet again:

Lara can’t play shortstop, and while he will get a chance to play third base, several scouts think he’s a future left fielder or first baseman, which will put a lot of pressure on his bat.

That thing you quoted, from a Toronto Blue Jays fan blog:

Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either (?).

 

So basically, we have Baseball America sourcing scouts saying he can't play shortstop, Kiley McDaniel not even providing it as an option, MLB.com hazy at best about the prospect, and some Blue Jays blog saying he looks like Curtis Granderson on the infield, but he's certainly no either.

 

You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions, but to me Baseball America and Kiley McDaniel hold more water than the grammar-impaired Breaking Blue.

 

It actually says;Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either.

 

How exactly is there a problem with the grammar there? You realize you changed not only the order of the words, but the actual word when you quoted it at the bottom. "he's not certainty either." As in, he's not certainty to stay at SS either. He has the hands and fluid body, but it's no certainty.

 

Which is my entire point. It has nothing to do with me taking one blog and you taking Baseball America saying it several times, and then McDaniel or who "holds more water," it's the absurdity of stating that a 15 or 16 year old kid won't be able to stay at a certain position. I just find it kinda asinine. It's one thing if they're talking about Jimmy Nelson being a reliever as BA as has done. He was at least in his 20's and had two really good pitches before rounding out his arsenal a bit.

 

And by the way, ONE site(Baseball America) saying he'll move, one(MLB.com) saying he could stay, he could move) and a third writer getting his current position wrong(as I don't think there is any question he IS currently a SS) does not make a consensus.

 

I imagine the "consensus," would have been that Ripken and Tulo would have been future 3rd basemen or RF'ers when they were 16 years old as well. They would have been wrong. They also very likely would have said that Carlos Gomez would move off of SS. They obviously would have been correct. But why is there any need to guess right now? He's 6 years away right now, and even these reports you cite, don't give any reasons as to why he'll move off of short. So it sounds like it's a "just because," situation.

 

 

But as you said, I am free to draw my own conclusions. And my conclusion is that we make these determinations on where players can play, that they'll out grow a position, that they'll have to move, WAY too early and that at some point we're just flat out guessing. And in that event, BA is smart, but it's far more likely that a 16 year old will end up at another position.

[SRB]

Keep in mind we are talking about a 16-year-old who may or may not have ever set foot outside the Dominican Republic. He is not touring on a high school/college circuit and I doubt even Baseball America or MLB.com have multiple great sources who have seen these international prospects play very much.

 

I suspect the greatest objective "scouting report" of these prospects' value is the actual dollar figures they end up securing from MLB teams. The fact that the Brewers are willing to break the bank and give an unprecedented (for Milwaukee) $3-3.5M for Lara indicates he is pretty good. If he doesn't have the tools to stick at SS, then that probably means they think his bat is extremely impressive even at 1B/LF. If his bat isn't quite that good, then that probably means they think he can stick at SS or at least 3B.

 

We'll find out whether Lara has long-term potential at SS when we see how the Brewers handle him after (hopefully) signing him in a couple weeks.

[And That]

And by the way, ONE site(Baseball America) saying he'll move, one(MLB.com) saying he could stay, he could move) and a third writer getting his current position wrong(as I don't think there is any question he IS currently a SS) does not make a consensus.

Considering that Baseball America's position is based on the opinions of a number of scouts, and that Kiley McDaniel is a scout himself, yes I would say that a majority of scouts whose position on the issue is available would seem to be disinclined to project Lara as a shortstop.

[brewcrewdue80]

H&T You're right in that I'm basing my 3b opinion on nothing but conjecture I've read as posted just above. I just read in to that as being a strong indication he's not going to play SS. What is it I read previously about HS/College players. That typically the SS is being played by the most athletically talented player on the team, but when they move to Pro-ball a more destined position is where they are placed based on their gifts/tools/talents/projection. All I can say is Milwaukee seems destined to put in 3+mil for this kid. His SS position would immediately be blocked by the future of Arcia playing SS everyday. Based upon the fact he reads as having a strong arm/with power in his bat, and the organization desperately needs a 3b for the future with Above Avg talent, I really assume Lara's signing when done is geared towards him moving and playing 3b. Now, Gatewood's selection may add a little less apparent to that statement, and maybe that also has the rumored 1b/Outfield tie in to where he'll play vs. just sticking to 3b. Since like me, BA can look at what's in the system today and to the future and say, Gatewood blocks Lara at 3b as Arcia blocks Gatewood at SS so, we now peg him to be a 1b or Right Fielder. (Thus far Gatewood has DH'd and played 3 games at SS) I could easily see the future playing out as Arcia 2b/Gatewood SS/Lara 3b. Who knows? It's all so early, I pegged him at 3b because doesn't that make his signing more exciting to you vs. if you now say he's going to stick at SS? Well, Great, we need a 3b and instead we have 3 SSs to look forward to joining the team in 3-5years.

[logan82]

I don't think they should make any decision on where to play Lara based on MLB needs. He probably at least 6 years away from the majors. You don't draft based on MLB needs why would you make a decision like that based on MLB needs with a guy at least 2 years younger than anyone entering the draft? You play a guy at the toughest position he can handle and worry about it when he is MLB ready. Like they did with Lucroy.

[And That]

Ben Badler:

 

No. 1 prospect Adrian Rondon won't sign today. He and Kenny Hernandez are still 15. Could also see Gilbert Lara waiting a little to sign.

[markedman5]

Max Wildstein ⚾️ @MaxWildstein · 49m

Source says that Lara deal with #Brewers is for about $3.2 million plus some performance incentives. Deal is somewhere between 3.2-3.6 mil.

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Max Wildstein ⚾️ @MaxWildstein · 1h

Source: #Brewers sign SS Gilbert Lara to a deal worth approximately $3.4 million with incentives