Any inside knowledge here on the Melvin/Attanasio working relationship?

[danzig6767]

Hard to not like this Garza deal so long as he checked out medically, but with Attanasio mentioning the signing, i'd love to be able to listen in on discussions each year between Mark and Doug when it comes to both deciding on a direction for each season and especially on the free agents signings/trades the team has made over the last 5 years or so.

 

1. Does Melvin bring up signing or trading for X player/players and mostly just ask Attanasio for a yes or no?

 

2. Instead does Attanasio suggest that Melvin be aggressive in pursuing the players they've signed/traded for over the last roughly 5 years?

 

3. Has Melvin ever disagreed with say a free agent that Attanasio wanted to pursue, but Doug was basically overruled?

 

After many of the bigger named free agents the team has signed under Attanasio, it's often been reported in the media the he was pretty involved in the negotiations. A prime example i wonder about was the Loshe signing. For a few months Doug was asked if he was interested in signing Lohse, but he kept saying that he had no desire at all in losing a first round pick to sign the guy. Then out of nowhere it comes out that the team signed Loshe and media reports said that Attanasio was negotiating directly with Boras. So i wondered at that point if both Doug/Mark were in total agreement on the signing or if instead it was more Attanasio simply taking the initiative on his own to sign Lohse, even if Melvin had fairly strong reservations about losing a first rounder to get the signing done?

 

It's clear that Attanasio isn't one of those mainly just sit in the background type of owners who sets a budget and that pretty much ends his involvement. To what exact degree though that he is involved in roster decisions, especially bigger decisions is something which is hard to know for me at least.

 

So does anyone here have any inside knowledge of how the whole Melvin and Attanasio dynamic works when it comes to everything from deciding what overall direction to take each year and/or the major signings/trades involving guys like Suppan, Greinke, Wolf, Ramirez, Lohse, Garza, etc. because the media has never really delved much into that dynamic from what i can recall?

[TigerUppercut]

My question is how, given the Cardinals success in drafting from the bottom of the 1st round each year, is Attanasio not pissed about having to continually spend massive amounts of money to patch starting pitching holes? He's got to be tired of the "its hard to find and develop starting pitching" line when others in the division appear to be doing just fine at it.

[MNBrew]

I read in one of the JSOnline blog posts today that Attanasio's typically involved in the negotiations with most of the biggest-buck contracts. Where some here are inclined to construe that as meddling or overstepping bounds, I don't. . . . In simplest form, here's why: Really, if you think about it, do we ever hear of Mark A being involved w/ FA's & huge contracts that don't come to pass? NO. And I think it's pretty obviously because when the Brewers & the desired player are NOT close to making a deal happen, there's no reason whatsoever for the owner to be involved. I just don't think the owner being involved makes a darn thing happen until a deal is already close enough to happen.

 

Using the Garza signing as an example, it was revealed that Melvin's been in contact w/ Garza's reps since the Winter Meetings or before. I seriously doubt that means Attanasio's been active, let alone in the picture, that whole time. Rather, I take that to mean that Melvin & his folks do their homework/research and the "heavy lifting" of contacting, recruiting, sales-pitch-ing, and all that stuff, and then when things get close and it's time to talk $$, it's probably just easier for Attanasio to be involved directly so Melvin's not constantly having to pull the standard car salesman trick ("let me go talk to my boss") which ultimately would interrupt or even jeopardize the process. . . . . In short, to me, I think Attanasio's involvement simply helps Melvin make the big-buck signings happen more efficiently. . .

 

I think the Lohse signing wasn't Mark A meddling, either, but rather this: Melvin realized that most of the young guys he hoped to have in the rotation were so consistently putrid in spring training (Peralta, Fiers, & Rogers, to be specific) -- a chance and a path SO many on this site were championing throughout the winter going into ST '13, that the young guys should be given a chance to perform -- and Lohse was available so late in ST for reasonable terms, the only drawback being the draft pick, that a move was deemed essential and they were the only team who eventually decided it was worth the risk to sacrifice the draft pick to get Lohse onto the team. . . . To me, it was a very logical baseball decision combined with the right player & opportunity (albeit with an obvious drawback that didn't outweigh the positives or at least the highly pronounced need). If or that Mark A was involved in the negotiations is consistent with his statement today and to be expected simply because it was a big contract.

 

So that's my long-winded reaction to your question, Danzig. I'm sure others will disagree. I'd also suggest just what you did, that ultimately, none of us really truly know.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Lohse was all Attanasio.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Lohse and Suppan were all Attanasio. I think he likes to have the Brewers in the news.

[StearnsFTW]

I read in one of the JSOnline blog posts today that Attanasio's typically involved in the negotiations with most of the biggest-buck contracts. Where some here are inclined to construe that as meddling or overstepping bounds, I don't. . . . In simplest form, here's why: Really, if you think about it, do we ever hear of Mark A being involved w/ FA's & huge contracts that don't come to pass? NO. And I think it's pretty obviously because when the Brewers & the desired player are NOT close to making a deal happen, there's no reason whatsoever for the owner to be involved. I just don't think the owner being involved makes a darn thing happen until a deal is already close enough to happen.

 

Using the Garza signing as an example, it was revealed that Melvin's been in contact w/ Garza's reps since the Winter Meetings or before. I seriously doubt that means Attanasio's been active, let alone in the picture, that whole time. Rather, I take that to mean that Melvin & his folks do their homework/research and the "heavy lifting" of contacting, recruiting, sales-pitch-ing, and all that stuff, and then when things get close and it's time to talk $$, it's probably just easier for Attanasio to be involved directly so Melvin's not constantly having to pull the standard car salesman trick ("let me go talk to my boss") which ultimately would interrupt or even jeopardize the process. . . . . In short, to me, I think Attanasio's involvement simply helps Melvin make the big-buck signings happen more efficiently. . .

 

I think the Lohse signing wasn't Mark A meddling, either, but rather this: Melvin realized that most of the young guys he hoped to have in the rotation were so consistently putrid in spring training (Peralta, Fiers, & Rogers, to be specific) -- a chance and a path SO many on this site were championing throughout the winter going into ST '13, that the young guys should be given a chance to perform -- and Lohse was available so late in ST for reasonable terms, the only drawback being the draft pick, that a move was deemed essential and they were the only team who eventually decided it was worth the risk to sacrifice the draft pick to get Lohse onto the team. . . . To me, it was a very logical baseball decision combined with the right player & opportunity (albeit with an obvious drawback that didn't outweigh the positives or at least the highly pronounced need). If or that Mark A was involved in the negotiations is consistent with his statement today and to be expected simply because it was a big contract.

 

So that's my long-winded reaction to your question, Danzig. I'm sure others will disagree. I'd also suggest just what you did, that ultimately, none of us really truly know.

 

Thank God we signed Kyle Lohse. We won 74 games. I personally would've preferred letting the young guys take their lumps and who cares what the record was. 65 wins instead of 74? What's the difference?

 

Although as stated in the Garza thread, with Seid making the pick it probably didn't matter anyway.

[djoctagone]

mark attanasio asks doug melvin what his favorite foods are.

 

but then he goes behind doug's back and asks jeff suppan what his favorite foods are.

 

when he has a dinner meeting with the two to negotiate a contract, the menu features all of suppan's favorites.

[Thurston Fluff]

Thank God we signed Kyle Lohse. We won 74 games. I personally would've preferred letting the young guys take their lumps and who cares what the record was. 65 wins instead of 74? What's the difference?

 

If the team ends up winning a pennant this season is that deal still bad? Judging a three year deal on the team record of the first year of that deal seems premature.

[bjkrautk]

It amazes me that, so relatively soon after Selig (-Prieb) ownership, fans are now complaining that our owner might be too active in 'meddling' to make sure we sign high-priced free agents.

[xisxisxis]

Judging a three year deal on the team record of the first year of that deal seems premature.

 

So you don't like the idea of a message forum that discusses issues of the day, you want us only to discuss things where all of the data is in and any contract has run it's course. In that case we might as well shut down brewerfan.net since 99.9% of the discussions are about topics that are still "active" by your definition. It's ok to disagree with the conclusion at this point, but it is hardly premature to discuss the merits of a deal today as it was when there were thousands of posts at the time of the signing and throughout last year.

 

 

If the team ends up winning a pennant this season is that deal still bad?

 

So you got some money down on the brewers taking the pennant? If we go by your rules shouldn't we be discussing this after the end of the year and even then we are only 2/3rds into the Lohse deal....

 

 

Attanasio thinks he's a GM like any good micromanaging leader. So far his likes in pitchers is clearly the conclusions that are drawn by the average fan with little knowledge of baseball. It's his money so if he wants to play monopoly with the team I guess he can. Personally I just don't want to hear how the drop in attendance is hurting the bottom line when the Brewers fans are at the top of the pile in $ support per capita. A meddling owner that blames the fans (Selig/Prieb) is one thing while a meddling owner who blames himself if those bad decisions hurt the team is another. Jury is still out on Attaturk...

[fondybrewfan]

The Brewers W/L record last year had nothing to do with Lohse. He ended up being a great pick up for Year #1 and certainly wasn't the reason we stunk. If Braun, Hart, and Ramirez hadn't missed so many games perhaps Lohse would have been the difference in making the playoffs. I am certainly glad that we have Lohse going into this year. He has been a great pitcher the last 2 years; a sub 1.20 WHIP for 3 straight years with an ERA+ of 133 and 117 in 2012/2013. Pretty nice deal at $11 Million even with the lost draft pick.

[Thurston Fluff]

Judging a three year deal on the team record of the first year of that deal seems premature.

 

So you don't like the idea of a message forum that discusses issues of the day, you want us only to discuss things where all of the data is in and any contract has run it's course. In that case we might as well shut down brewerfan.net since 99.9% of the discussions are about topics that are still "active" by your definition. It's ok to disagree with the conclusion at this point, but it is hardly premature to discuss the merits of a deal today as it was when there were thousands of posts at the time of the signing and throughout last year.

 

 

If the team ends up winning a pennant this season is that deal still bad?

 

So you got some money down on the brewers taking the pennant? If we go by your rules shouldn't we be discussing this after the end of the year and even then we are only 2/3rds into the Lohse deal....

 

 

 

Amazing how much you read into a simple statement. Pity it was nowhere near accurate. Maybe some day you will have something to say that isn't condescending or insulting. Can't say I'm holding my breath. Or that I care one iota what you feel this board should be about or what I should say on it.

[brewtank34]

bjkraut, couldn't have said it better myself. We have an owner who wants to win. We have a GM that is able to get the deals done if needed. I'll agree with Tiger though...something is inherently wrong when we can't copy a design that the Cardinals have created. We aren't the only ones, as there are 30 other teams who are trying to copy their model too and have or have not been successful.

 

I would like to imagine that a special position w/in the organization could be hired. The position: Cardinal Scout. Have this person study and analyze every single move that the Cardinals have made over the last 15 years and find the patterns. Sounds pretty simple to me. Just make it happen.

[RockCoCougars]

I'll be the first to admit that I wasn't a fan of the Suppan/Wolf/Lohse deals when they were signed. That said, I really like the Garza move (probably a bad omen). To me, this move took the Brewers from a team where everything would have had to have gone right for the team to compete to a team that looks to be a mid 80's win team on paper. Is that enough to be a bonafide WS contender? Probably not, but I like to watch a team in the mix, and if these guys play to their potential, they should be competing for a Wild Card spot until at least late August. That probably sounds short sighted to those of you who want to blow up and rebuild, but I think that Attanasio feels the same way, I think that would be reflected in the attendance as well. In this day and age, any team with a decent amount of talent has a least a fighter's shot...who in their right minds would have picked the Red Sox as champs a year ago at this time?

[MNBrew]

Much as some of you seem not to like it, Mark A made a darn good point yesterday: The Brewers knew they needed to beef up their arsenal of arms and have done a respectable job of doing so given the limited assets they had. He even missed one.

 

- Blazek added in the Axford deal (most obviously Ax wasn't returning)

- Wang added in the Rule 5 draft

- Smith added for Aoki (who, while still rather good IMO, may have been reduced to a part-time role given Davis' ascent -- this is the one Mark A didn't mention)

- Garza added yesterday

 

In the meantime, guys like Henderson, Wooten, Hand, Kintzler all proved rather capable in the BP over the last season-plus. Thornburg got a chance and ran with it (Hellweg, while promising, had a forgettable '13 in limited MLB time). And guys like Nelson & Burgos have been on the cusp of decent MLB playing time. . . . Maybe not any gamebreakers there, but several guys showing the ability to consistently get MLB hitters out, which I'll take over hype anyday. . . . And this is all without Jungmann & Bradley proving to be bona fide prospects yet, and Pena being a ?. . . . All this after Fiers blew up & then broke his arm, and Rogers flamed out. . . . .Again, for a team without prospects, that's a large collection of names already here before the additions MA cited, and many are doing rather well.

 

I still think some are convinced Mark A's enthusiasm means he's the baseball version of Dallas' Jerry Jones. And like some are skeptical of Braun's truthfulness now, I think if the truth didn't jive with some folks' suspicions, they'd still go with their suspicions regardless of the truth.

[danzig6767]

It amazes me that, so relatively soon after Selig (-Prieb) ownership, fans are now complaining that our owner might be too active in 'meddling' to make sure we sign high-priced free agents.

 

I didn't start the thread so much complaining about how Attanasio runs the team, it was mainly pure curiosity as to how big of role he has in the bigger free agent signings and trades. Overall, i like him and am happy he was the one to buy the Brewers from Bud.

 

Here and there we get snippets in the media about Attanasio being directly involved in negotiations with agents after free agent players have been signed, but i'm curious if he's sometimes taking the lead in getting players signed, even if say Melvin isn't as enthused or if they reach a mutual agreement before all major moves are made?

 

Some professional sports teams are run like the Packers where the GM has complete authority with very little to zero interference. There are the Dallas Cowboys where the owner is the GM. Then there is a wide gap in between where most teams are run with owners who have varying degrees of influence. This dynamic i find interesting.

[logan82]

The Brewers W/L record last year had nothing to do with Lohse. He ended up being a great pick up for Year #1 and certainly wasn't the reason we stunk. If Braun, Hart, and Ramirez hadn't missed so many games perhaps Lohse would have been the difference in making the playoffs. I am certainly glad that we have Lohse going into this year. He has been a great pitcher the last 2 years; a sub 1.20 WHIP for 3 straight years with an ERA+ of 133 and 117 in 2012/2013. Pretty nice deal at $11 Million even with the lost draft pick.

We were not a playoff team last year with or without Lohse. Even without the injuries and with Lohse we were a low 80's win team. There is no way all those injuries and missed time add up to 16 wins.

[davego]

I like it when the 'Crew adds talanted players that upgrade positions. I'm a pretty casual fan that way. So far, I love Mark.

[logan82]

I hated the Lohse signing because it was giving up the future for the present and the present was expected to be much more than mediocre.

[Thurston Fluff]

We were not a playoff team last year with or without Lohse. Even without the injuries and with Lohse we were a low 80's win team. There is no way all those injuries and missed time add up to 16 wins.

 

But why are you so focused on the first year of the deal? There is no single player that suddenly makes a team a contender. Not even Greinke did that. It takes a combination of moves to make a team a contender. But that combination doesn't have to all come in the same off season. Adding Garza would be a lot less helpful getting us back into playoff contention without having Lohse on board already.

[logan82]

It is more than just one year. We are not a contender this year either. Maybe possibly next year an by then Lohse at his age could be well into decline. At no point in the deal can I look at it and think we are serious playoff contenders.

[3and2Fastball]

It is more than just one year. We are not a contender this year either. Maybe possibly next year an by then Lohse at his age could be well into decline. At no point in the deal can I look at it and think we are serious playoff contenders.

 

We are serious playoff contenders in 2014. It just depends on many intangibles:

 

1) The health of the Pirates, Cardinals & Reds as we as our own health.

 

2) The development of younger players like Gomez, Segura, Lucroy, Gennett, Davis

 

3) Ryan Braun playing like the Ryan Braun of 2008-2011

 

I wouldn't call the Brewers "favorites" but I'm not counting them out either

[TooLiveBrew]

I realize this thread concept is a bit of a gray area, but let's please try to keep it to a discussion of the Attanasio/Melvin relationship.

[danzig6767]

It is more than just one year. We are not a contender this year either. Maybe possibly next year an by then Lohse at his age could be well into decline. At no point in the deal can I look at it and think we are serious playoff contenders.

 

Odds are against the Brewers making the playoffs this year, but i wouldn't say that with certainty.

 

Every year there tends to be teams who do quite a bit better than projected and teams who do quite a bit worse than projected. Take the last two years. Last season.

 

Pretty much nobody had the Indians winning 92 games after winning only 68 the year before or the Pirates winning 94. On the flip side, Toronto had high expectations and only won 74. Washington finished 10 games back. San Fran was 76-86. The year prior nobody had Baltimore winning 93 games.

 

So while i understand the skepticism of the Brewers being a serious playoff contender this coming season, a variety of factors can happen to each team which only after a season end helps explain why they did better or worse than expected. Everything from injury amounts, certain players having a better or worse year than expected, having a good or bad year in say one run games, etc. The same happens in other pro sports.

 

It's fun for fans trying to predict how exactly sports teams will do before a season starts or to read computer simulations of how a season will play out, but thankfully games are played on the field/court/ice and there are always surprises. This Brewers roster has enough talent to be one of those surprises, even if the odds are against them making the playoffs.

[RightFieldCoder]

Adding Garza would be a lot less helpful getting us back into playoff contention without having Lohse on board already.

 

The fear is having another Suppan situation. An older pitcher is added who is worthless near the end of the contract when the Brewers make the playoffs.