Brewers + Matt Garza; 4 yrs, $50MM + incentives, 5th year option

[BallFour]

Considering Attanasio has a good relationship with Garza's agent Nez Balelo I am not too concerned someone is playing dirty here.

 

It really is kind of weird he didn't get a Anibal Sanchez or C.J. Wilson type deal from a contender, especially without forfeiting draft pick compensation. All I can say is I am a lot more excited for the season compared to yesterday. There should not be a lot of variance with Garza, Lohse, and Gallardo all three should have a sub 4.00 ERA. Too bad our division is really good compared to 2011.

 

Also no one can really call Attanasio a tight wad anymore, not calling out anybody on this forum but the goons on JSonline and radio listeners were ridiculous this offseason. We really didn't overpay when you consider what we gave Suppan six years ago or what the Yankees just shelled out for Tanaka.

 

If he signed with a big market contender the media would spin it how it was a great deal IMO

[TooLiveBrew]

Adam McCalvy's blog post on this matter:

 

He was close Thursday, but Matt Garza was not a Milwaukee Brewer just yet.

 

The team took the rare step of releasing a statement in the evening to respond to reports, including from Ken Rosenthal of MLB Network and FOXSports.com, that the sides were in agreement on a four-year, $52 million contract, pending a physical exam. Rosenthal later reported that Garza had indeed undergone his physical.

 

But instead of officially announcing what would be the richest free agent contract in Brewers history, the team issued a statement at 6:11 p.m. CT. It read: “Despite media reports, negotiations between the Brewers and Matt Garza are ongoing, but there is no deal yet.”

 

The nature of the holdup was unclear. Brewers assistant general manager Gord Ash declined to comment, and a representative of Garza did the same.

 

One source said the sides simply needed more time to hash out the final terms of the agreement.

 

So for at least one more day, the Brewers remained the only team in baseball that had not signed a single Major League free agent. Stay tuned.

Hard to know what to make of this, but certainly confusing.

[Warning Track Power]

This would be super disappointing if this isn't finalized. Garza, at this price point, would be a real nice acquisition for the Brewers. If they lose him and you believe some of the chatter on Twitter that it isn't related to the physical, you have to believe that something that isn't on the up and up is afoot.

[Warning Track Power]

One source said the sides simply needed more time to hash out the final terms of the agreement.

 

This to me sounds like a backloaded deal with no-trade clause language or something to that effect.

[TooLiveBrew]

One source said the sides simply needed more time to hash out the final terms of the agreement.

 

This to me sounds like a backloaded deal with no-trade clause language or something to that effect.

Interesting idea... maybe hammering out what a 5th year mutual option would be?

[torts]

BuckyBrewer61

Posted: January 23, 2014, 12:20 AM Post

I have it on basically no real authority - a friend of a friend who claims to have a "source" which he will not identify - that the Brewers are close to signing Matt Garza and supposedly will sign him tomorrow.

 

I mean... this was the first post indicating Garza/Brewers, and it WAS posted today.... so tomorrow is the 24th!

[owbc]

It still seems like it will happen, the Brewers just wanted the physical before they agreed to some of the incentives.

 

Garza is a solid pitcher. The price is high, but not that high considering how much money is out there. This is a big deal for 2014, since some of us (myself included) had very low expectations. I just don't want Garza to end up as another Suppan.

[brewmann04]

What about the Bullpen additions especially closing experience..

[Eye Black]

My initial reaction to the deal was I was very surprised Garza, without being hitched to 1st Rd pick compensation, agreed to 4 years at $13 million per year. I had envisioned him signing for closer to $15 million annually. From a financial standpoint the deal (assuming it is completed) seems like a good price relative to other FA signings.

 

It does seem strange to me that the Brewers felt the need to clarify the status of the lack of agreement on Twitter. Seems like if you were just working out the details of the contract structure you would just continue to work on it without making any public acknowlegements. Very curious to see what direction this goes from here.

[JohnBriggs12]

What about the Bullpen additions especially closing experience..

 

They may be comfortable with Thornburg in a short reliever role. Burgos had a great winter in PR and he got himself in the picture as well.

[patrickgpe]

i wouldn't worry about it falling through. since there was no whisper of this deal I am guessing it came together quickly and hammering out some of the language in the deal may take some time.

[Roderick]

Does this drastically diminish the chances of obtaining Francisco Rodriguez?

 

Assuming they sign Garza, I would think that would increase the chances they sign KRod. KRod isn't going to cost that much I don't think - and now that they have "went for it", they would foresee winning more games and needed a veteran down in the pen for the late innings would be even more important.

[DR28]

Man I hope this deal doesn't fall thru! I really want Garza as a Brewer.

[Roderick]

My only issue with this is that the Aoki trade now makes no sense at all. Improved the rotation while putting a hole in the lineup.

 

Although I'm sure they are banking on Davis being or no downgrade.

 

There is no way they could know that a free agent pitcher of that level would be in the range they could afford, so by making that trade the lessen the need to sign a free agent.

 

However, even knowing I was going to sign Garza, I still trade Aoki. I think they got a decent pitcher they control for years and Davis/Gindl slugging will make up for the drop in OBP and defense.

[KCBrewerfan34]

They love Davis, where is the whole? Leadoff? I hated Aoki in right, he played way too deep and I don't know how many outs he cost our pitchers last year.

[DR28]

Honestly I think Segura will do just fine as our Leadoff hitter.

[dhoffman19]

My only issue with this is that the Aoki trade now makes no sense at all. Improved the rotation while putting a hole in the lineup.

 

Although I'm sure they are banking on Davis being or no downgrade.

 

There is no way they could know that a free agent pitcher of that level would be in the range they could afford, so by making that trade the lessen the need to sign a free agent.

 

However, even knowing I was going to sign Garza, I still trade Aoki. I think they got a decent pitcher they control for years and Davis/Gindl slugging will make up for the drop in OBP and defense.

 

Plus they needed help in the bullpen and Smith should help a lot there.

[TooLiveBrew]

My only issue with this is that the Aoki trade now makes no sense at all. Improved the rotation while putting a hole in the lineup.

 

Although I'm sure they are banking on Davis being or no downgrade.

 

There is no way they could know that a free agent pitcher of that level would be in the range they could afford, so by making that trade the lessen the need to sign a free agent.

 

However, even knowing I was going to sign Garza, I still trade Aoki. I think they got a decent pitcher they control for years and Davis/Gindl slugging will make up for the drop in OBP and defense.

 

Plus they needed help in the bullpen and Smith should help a lot there.

And if we're willing to borrow a page from the Cardinals in an effort to bolster the shot at contending, having arms like Thornburg & Nelson to augment the bullpen would be a big boost, too. Not saying I'd burn a whole year of service time for Downhill Thunder in the 'pen... but if we get to August or so with the team seriously contending & the rotation set, I'd call him up for relief duty in a heartbeat.

 

I'm not sure I can imagine a situation where you have too much pitching.

[Invader3K]

Really hope this deal doesn't fall through...not hearing much chatter about it this morning either way. I'm guessing they are just hashing out the final details, like no-trade clause, etc. At least I hope that's the case.

[torts]

wonder if that 4th year is an option/vesting year, I read most teams were not willing to go past 3 years, so im wondering if the brewers were offering 3 years with a 4th year option but it got reported as 4 years

[TheCrew07]

Given history I like the idea of signing starting pitchers to below market deals and spending higher draft picks on hitters...

 

I get where you are going with this, it's not the first time I've seen the idea floated around, and I think it could work for large market teams, but unfortunately not for the Brewers... not if we're talking about trying to win a championship. If the bar is set at a Wild Card appearance, then maybe.

 

You can win a ton of games with mediocre pitching and a top tier offense, but no one has won a World Series with that kind of setup. Conversely teams like the Giants and Rays have won or gotten to the World Series with a pretty average offensive team but elite pitching.

 

Baseball is about pitching, your pitching sets the ceiling of your team. If you're the Brewers and the best you can afford in FA is averagish/older/declining pitchers, then the ceiling of your team is that of a pretender. Garza is a fine pitcher, obviously with my affinity for the Rays he's been on my radar for a very long time, but he's not a top of rotation starter anymore. He hasn't been healthy in years, but the flip side is that he's about the best kind of talent the Brewers can afford to target in FA. He's still a #2 best case when healthy and effective but in reality he's more like #3, and we unfortunately still don't match-up unless someone like Peralta takes a big step forward. Even if he does what if Lohse starts to slide? Or Gallardo continues to lose velocity?

 

Recent Brewer teams have been littered with upper tier offenses and mid tier to below average pitching... how far did any of those teams get? We need young impact pitching (actually we need young impact players in general to balance out the payroll), and if we aren't able to draft and develop it then we better figure out a way to trade for it, because we aren't getting that kind of talent in Free Agency.

 

To me this signing is more about ticket sales anything else... bring in a "name" that people know and hope he stays healthy enough to contribute. He's just this year's version of the same recurring theme... Ramirez, Lohse, and now Garza if he signs. None of these guys are good enough to put the Brewers over the top, even as a group. Much like the Lohse signing the organization continues to just tread water, there's a reasonable chance that the Brewers will be significantly better than last year, but that's a far cry from being a legit contender.

 

I would much rather be the Cards or Pirates... I think the Reds are nearing the end of their run, they are about the same place as the Brewers were in 2010... A roster that's starting age with little help coming from the farm, though if Stephenson stays healthy he's going to be a beast and has the ability to bolster the rotation by himself. The Cubs are the wild card in the division, they have very little pitching coming, but they have the most impressive core of hitters any team has had in a long time. If those hitters turn out way that our first wave of hitting prospects did (Fielder, Hardy, Hart, Weeks, Braun) the division is in serious trouble, because the Cubs can buy pitching in FA and they will also have surplus hitting talent to trade for an impact pitcher.

 

I don't see how adding Garza bumps the Brewers up from the 4th best team in the division now or in the immediate future. The Reds, Pirates, and Cardinals all have better MLB rosters today. Over the next couple of seasons the Pirates and Cardinals have enough young talent to continue to ascend, the Reds will likely start to slowly slide, the Brewers will probably continue to tread water with FA patches, and the Cubs could explode. Being the 3rd best team in your own division (best case) isn't a recipe for success, even playing in the best division in the NL, it's pretty difficult to get enough wins to get a Wild Card spot, and yes I do remember that both WC teams came the Central last year. It's much easier for the 2nd place team in weak division to get those wins... like the 2nd place team in the NL Central when our division was pretty awful and it was just a 2 horse race for the division crown every year.

[logan82]

I don't think this move vaults us into contention or makes us a lot better. It gives us more depth, which is good, but I think it only moves us by a couple wins. It gives more certainty to expected production compared to a guy like Thornburg. I still think we have to hope Peralta learns some control. He is our best hope for an ace. In fact if I had to pick one player who our whole season could turn on it would be Peralta.

 

I know this will sound weird but I don't think money is really an issue for the Brewers for the next few years. Obviously we can't go out and compete for the big free agents but our salary obligations are manageable. I think we still lack a good sized bubble of talent at any level in the organization.

[jjfanec]

I don't think this move vaults us into contention or makes us a lot better. It gives us more depth, which is good, but I think it only moves us by a couple wins. It gives more certainty to expected production compared to a guy like Thornburg. I still think we have to hope Peralta learns some control. He is our best hope for an ace. In fact if I had to pick one player who our whole season could turn on it would be Peralta.

 

I know this will sound weird but I don't think money is really an issue for the Brewers for the next few years. Obviously we can't go out and compete for the big free agents but our salary obligations are manageable. I think we still lack a good sized bubble of talent at any level in the organization.

 

Not sure how it doesnt make us a lot better. Is it enough to help us make the playoffs? I dont know but it definitely makes us better. A rotation of Gallardo (look at the 2nd half production), Lohse, Garza, Peralta, and Estrada if very formidable. The even bigger perk is the depth we have if one of those guys goes down. Having Thornburg, Nelson and others waiting is very nice. Thornburg could even give us depth in the bullpen. It gives Hellweg more time to try to figure it out in AAA. We lack a true ace but we have 4 guys who could be 2/3 type guys which is pretty solid. Estrada is a good 5th starter.

 

Our lineup has a couple wholes at 1B and 2B but I like where we are at on the other spots. I dont know the roster well enough to know how I feel about our bullpen

[foamboy1]

I don't know how legit this is, but I was told this morning that the MRI revealed a partially torn labrum in his pitching shoulder. Garza has said it has no impact on his shoulder and he's perfectly healthy. I was told it might kill the deal and Jimenez would become the next target.

 

Don't piledrive me - but the person who told me said his source is quite solid. Take it for what it's worth.

[logan82]

Not sure how it doesnt make us a lot better.

Thornburg could possibly have outpitched Garza or not much worse than Garza. Better, sure, a lot better, maybe. More depends on the guys we already had. I think the move increases the floor for the team more than the ceiling, which isn't a bad thing.

 

You can't just ignore how bad the rotation was for the first half of the year or how bad Segura and Gomez were in the second half.

 

A rotation of Gallardo (look at the 2nd half production), Lohse, Garza, Peralta, and Estrada is possibly very formidable. That same rotation last year was not good. This move boots Thornburg(who was our best starter by ERA, I doubt he would repeat that) further down but also some really bad performances.

 

Good move that will probably help attendance but we still need a lot to go right to make the playoffs. I hope we do make the playoffs becasue if we don't I think this move will keep us hovering in middling ground as a franchise.