Slowest Off-Season Ever?

[RockCoCougars]

This is something that I've been thinking about, and haven't seen a dedicated thread- so here goes. Has there ever been a slower off-season in Brewer history than this one? In the past 3 months there have been what, 3 or 4 minor transactions (none of which really registered a blip on the radar)? I'm not looking for a big blockbuster deal, or marquee FA, but maybe a signing a few vets to NRI deals with invites to spring training or something. Even in the darkest days of the Bando/Taylor regimes moves were made.

 

I guess that I'm not sure how to feel about this. Part of me wants to get upset that they've made no moves to improve the team, but then part of me is glad when I consider some of the moves from the past several off seasons. That said, I have to think that it's indicative of severe payroll limitations as they can't be 100 percent content with the roster as it stands right now. Just wondering about other people's thoughts on this.

[brewmann04]

DM is slowly looking to see who out their in FA to grab a Bargain basement player or two.

This team is not going to really contend for the Playoffs in 2014 .This is the brewers way and you are always going see people complain one way or another.

[brewcrewdue80]

Well, I dunno how many moves Melvin is supposed to make given the makeup of the important players. Clearly, C,3b,SS,2 2b, 2CF, LF,RF as well as your #1,2,3,4 in the rotation are covered. Melvin traded Aoki for Smith which adds to Nelson/Thornburg for competition as #5 SP. With the losers being solid looking Bullpen guys. Henderson as Closer.

 

Leaves 1b, Super Utility and then 8th inning RP as kinda the need. Everyone is down on Hunter Morris for 1b but who knows? Maybe there's reason he's top 4 in the system's prospect rankings and bringing in a 1b to block him is a poor idea so not bringing one in is smart. Bianchi/Josh Prince are kinda the Super Utility guys at the moment which is suspect but who knows what becomes available on waivers that can improve on them. And we're linked to KRod who I feel will be the 8th inning guy.

 

When pretty much your team's top prospects from the previous year graduated(Peralta/Thornburg/Gennett/Davis) or begin their career Nelson it is hard to visualize Melvin making moves to supplant those players when their careers are just getting started.

 

It'd be something different if those prospects were ranked among the organization's 2nd 10 vs top 10, but they made the climb earned their shot and I think ST will be a time to show they still deserve it. I don't see a reason to bring in a #5 SP unless you were trading away Lohse/Gallardo or Estrada creating a need. We have a great Defensive Catcher for a Backup so that shouldn't be an area of need.

You can't blame Melvin on the lack of signings. Maybe lack of creative trades. Whether it is Lohse/Gomez/Gallardo/ARam/Weeks in that respect. And at the same time when you're looking at trading pitching look at the FA market thus far, it's at a standstill waiting for the Tanaka signing to happen. Until a team is a loser in that sweepstakes Lohse/Gallardo/Estrada are likely not on some other team's priority to make a deal happen right now. They Traded Aoki which makes Gomez more important to stay for this year. You can't trade Braun/ARam/Weeks due to a major loss in value with injuries last season.

 

You tell me what moves should have been made to quench your thirst on offseason activity?

[MNBrew]

Sure, it's been slow, but I agree w/ BCD80:

 

- Many positions are rather set (or, to look at it differently, upgrading them would cost more and blow other holes in the roster, making for a lateral move at best).

- 1B and the bullpen are the most realistic positions to target for moves, and other than losing out on Corey Hart, it's not exactly like other prime/realistic opportunities have gone by the boards. NOT overpaying for Ike Davis is extremely smart to say the least!

- They did trade Aoki for Smith. Smith had a good year last year, and he's young enough that he should still be on the ascent, and it's too soon to know if that peak will be in the rotation or the 'pen. But he's another strong, live arm w/ some promise, which seems like a productive return for Aoki.

 

Just because you want to make a move doesn't mean the right opportunity will be there. You can aim for any FA you want, but he has to be open to coming to you and agree on dollars/term. You can target any player on anyone else's roster, but the other team has to be willing to move him and the quality of assets requested has to be realistic (see: Mets' reported asking price of Thornburg for Ike Davis). I'd rather see the Brewers make the right moves and for more intelligent prices than moves early that leave everyone second-guessing, whether for the $$ involved or for what was given up.

 

The result thus far has been a slow off-season, but at the very least, you can't really criticize Melvin for making obviously stupid moves -- a take some folks on seem ready to champion at a moment's notice.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Brewer team that we saw the last half of 2013 after Braun's suspension and Weeks injury represented a dramatic changing of the guard. It hasn't been talked about much, but I think the success of guys like Davis, Gennett, Thornburg, etc., was due in large part because these guys all basically showed up together and fed off each other. These guys looked around the clubhouse and saw guys they knew and had played with in the system, In addition to those 3, there was Gindl, Halton, Hand, Schafer, and Bianchi. All those guys had played together in the minors, most for several seasons, so the adjustment was that much easier. Meanwhile Lucroy and Gomez became the leaders of the team in Braun and Weeks absence, something they hadn't had since Fielder left. I think Melvin wants them to carry over that that feeling into 2014, and if they revamped the roster again, or brought in a bunch of new faces, they might not have that same chemistry.

[RockCoCougars]

You tell me what moves should have been made to quench your thirst on offseason activity?

 

I'm not really being critical here, I was more wondering what other people think. To me, the only thing that I'm frustrated about (and this has been going on for years) is Melvin's seeming hatred of left handed bats. I'm obviously also worried about the 1B situation, and I think they need a few arms for the bullpen as well.

[PrinceFielderx1]

First and foremost the Brewers WILL contend next season. This has been a very slow off-season and trades for SP don't usually happen till after the top FA pitchers are off the market and this Tanaka deal is delaying things by a few weeks, which doesn't happen every off-season.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if DM signs a FA SP or trades for one once the other dominoes start falling. I also expect him to sign 2-3 RP's.

[owbc]

They were priced out of the earlier FA signings, got nothing at the winter meetings, and now it's a little too early to start picking off the scrap heap.

 

Usually they try and do something before single game tickets go on sale, but 2012 and 2013 were disappointments and the 2014 roster is worse on paper than either of those two seasons. Management knows the odds, which is why they didn't bother taking a risk on an expensive 1B. I think they are acting appropriately, but they definitely are thinking about future seasons now.

[SoupTown]

If anyone is down on 2014 (roster wise), then 2015 will be a carbon copy. 2015 projects to be the exact roster... minus Weeks - who looks to be a bench player, so that is a minor roster change.

 

I really am 'for' acquiring Ike Davis - as he has a really high upside (and downside ) But without Ike, surely the Juan Fran / Halton show will appear at first. And, either way Ike vs Fran-Halton, then 2014 1st base solution will become 2015s.

 

I am of the opinion we will compete (at least enough to keep us fans interested until July). If we do not, then I hope the middle of 2014 is the MOST BUSY mid year ever. If we cannot compete with the roster in 2014, then 2015 is a loss. Then 2016 is really looking grim - as I think we lose our 1 and 2 pitchers after 2015.

 

So, this roster must compete early or be blown up in mid 2014. Then last half 2014 and 2015 becomes a rebuild. I will accept that as a fan, if we get some exciting prospects. Surely a year and a half of Lohse and Gallardo and ARAM to somebody will net some prospects of hope. And the first half of 2014 then can show if really we have prospects - even a couple in the minors - that slot into late 2014 - 15 rebuild.

 

The tragic path will be poor first half then Doug and Mark 'explain' our bad luck... and 2015 will the 'the year'. If they do that, then we will have bad 2015, 2016, 2017 - with no path to improvement. I sure hope they do not do that.

[RobertR]

Given that Fiers and Rogers aren't part of the rotation plans, I'd dispute that the 2014 roster is exactly like the 2013 roster.

 

I'll take no moves over a Jeffrey Hammonds like signing. Or when Eric Young was the big signing of the offseason.

[TURBO]

Agreed, no need to make moves just to make moves...

 

What have we lost out on that we could realistically afford?

[Invader3K]

The reality is that with the explosion of TV money throughout most of the league, but not in Milwaukee, the Brewers are basically back to being a small market team. They can't play in free agency at this point, and I give Melvin credit for not bothering to this off-season. I think the team knows they have a very slim chance to be competitive in 2014, but don't want to wave the white flag right now. I think if the team is out of it, we're going to see a lot of wheeling and dealing in July.

[MNBrew]

I completely agree with Melvin, that while teams that make a lot of moves in the winter garner a lot of press, way too often that doesn't translate into on-field success.

 

I'd rather fare better in the April-September season than the November-January season. While the latter can be quite important, too, it seems folks can lose perspective when "too few" moves - or even too many moves that aren't smart - happen over the winter.

[brewmann04]

I am thankful that DM did not Move TT for Davis whom i believe is no Better than what we have on this roster.I also believe DM will add a Reliever to this roster before spring training.

All the fan Base has to understand we will never be able to compete with top FA and that just the way the game is set up now.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't mind the Brewers not spending just to spend in Free Agency. But I do think this team isn't going to be good again in 2014, & I wish there was more that could realistically be done to improve them asap. The pitching just isn't good enough, and imo the offense isn't going to be that strong, either.

 

This has undoubtedly felt like a lonnnng offseason so far.

[umphrey]

I am pretty sure we are deeply in last place in moves made and money spent this offseason. I would like to see us gamble on a pitcher, Johan Santana is the guy I'm still watching.

[RockCoCougars]

I certainly don't want to see any questionable big money free agent signings, but I'd like to see some moves for depth. It doesn't always take big money to fill some holes. Every year it seems that there is at least one area of the team where a guy or two gets hurt or under performs and things turn into a complete shambles. There are depth guys out there who aren't too spendy. You don't have to limit yourselves to FA either, as the Braves just got Ryan Doumit for a mid-level prospect. A guy like that would have been perfect for the Brewers. I'll reserve judgement because it's too early yet to criticize, but I hope that they are doing their due diligence. Hearing excuses about injuries gets old year after year, everybody has them.

[brewmann04]

They are looking for a reliever and their a lot still looking for work. I agree think Santana would be a nice addition but seems the Yankees are looking hard at him

[Oldcity]

I'd much rather prefer this to dumb FA signings. Rebuild would have been better, though--and more exciting, if you're into that sort of thing.

[jerichoholicninja]

It seems like it's been a rather slow offseason overall. Take a look at the players still available: Ubaldo Jimenez, Matt Garza, Ervin Santana, Bronson Arroyo, Stephen Drew, Paul Maholm, Kendrys Morales, Grant Balfour, Fernando Rodney... I'm not advocating the Brewers sign any of these guys nor am I saying they are great players but these are guys that in years past would have been signed by now and other than Balfour agreeing to a deal there hasn't been much chatter about any of these guys.

[TooLiveBrew]

It seems like it's been a rather slow offseason overall. Take a look at the players still available: Ubaldo Jimenez, Matt Garza, Ervin Santana, Bronson Arroyo, Stephen Drew, Paul Maholm, Kendrys Morales, Grant Balfour, Fernando Rodney... I'm not advocating the Brewers sign any of these guys nor am I saying they are great players but these are guys that in years past would have been signed by now and other than Balfour agreeing to a deal there hasn't been much chatter about any of these guys.

Aside from Drew & Morales, are any others guys that'd cost their signing team its first round pick? I'd have to guess Garza would... but am too lazy to look at the moment.

[jerichoholicninja]

Ubaldo and Sanata are the only ones I believe. Garza does not because he was traded mid-season.

[Eye Black]

I'd much rather prefer this to dumb FA signings. Rebuild would have been better, though--and more exciting, if you're into that sort of thing.

Pretty much the same sentiment from me. There really haven't been many FA signings that I have seen this off-season that made me think, "I wish the Brewers would have bested that offer." I personally would have preferred they took a step back this off-season in order to stock some talent for the future, but that was never going to realistically happen either. They appear to be stuck in neutral this offseason, but they are also in a strange position where they are too talented to get away with a rebuild, but not deep enough to be just a signing or two away from being a legitimate title contender.

[adambr2]

First and foremost the Brewers WILL contend next season. This has been a very slow off-season and trades for SP don't usually happen till after the top FA pitchers are off the market and this Tanaka deal is delaying things by a few weeks, which doesn't happen every off-season.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if DM signs a FA SP or trades for one once the other dominoes start falling. I also expect him to sign 2-3 RP's.

This team is in a rebuilding phase and 4th is their ceiling in the division for the near future.

 

The cold hard truth is that we simply don't have the farm system to gain ground on the Cardinals, Reds, or Pirates. They're already better, and their reinforcements are better. The Cubs also have a vastly superior farm system so it'll be tough to even stay out of the cellar.

 

Barring some sort of bizarre circumstance where Braun plays like an MVP, Ramirez, Segura, Lucroy and Gomez all play like all-stars, Gallardo re-emerges and young starters like Thornburg and Peralta dominate, it's unlikely to expect us to contend this year.

[TooLiveBrew]

First and foremost the Brewers WILL contend next season. This has been a very slow off-season and trades for SP don't usually happen till after the top FA pitchers are off the market and this Tanaka deal is delaying things by a few weeks, which doesn't happen every off-season.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if DM signs a FA SP or trades for one once the other dominoes start falling. I also expect him to sign 2-3 RP's.

This team is in a rebuilding phase and 4th is their ceiling in the division for the near future.

 

The cold hard truth is that we simply don't have the farm system to gain ground on the Cardinals, Reds, or Pirates. They're already better, and their reinforcements are better. The Cubs also have a vastly superior farm system so it'll be tough to even stay out of the cellar.

 

Barring some sort of bizarre circumstance where Braun plays like an MVP, Ramirez, Segura, Lucroy and Gomez all play like all-stars, Gallardo re-emerges and young starters like Thornburg and Peralta dominate, it's unlikely to expect us to contend this year.

It's painful to me how much I agree with this. I think this perfectly sums up the Brewers' chances this season.