Is Rickie Weeks the biggest disappointment in Brewers history?

[molitor fan]

A harsh topic title to be sure, especially considering I have always rooted earnestly for Weeks to turn the corner from a health and production standpoint. Weeks turning a dp has been a staple on my page for a few years now, and I have always thought THIS would be the year that Weeks would put it all together and be a huge impact player.

 

However, it is looking like Weeks' Brewer career may be coming to an end through outright release or trade, and a review of his career stats paints an even harsher portrait than I would have thought. A .247 career average with just over 100 home runs and a mortifying k rate have been buttressed by the fact he never became a quality defender or a versatile player. He has simply been horribly disappointing for a guy I certainly believed had superstar potential - a number 2 overall pick with bat speed few possess.

 

Was it the injuries, especially to his wrist that sapped his abilities? Not sure, and I do hesitate to call him the biggest Brewer disappointment due to this. In the end however, I cannot think of more wasted talent (Glenn Braggs is second for me, followed by Sixto Lezcano)

 

Just a quick edit to respond to JimH5's point.....Weeks is a guy that was looked at as a superstar, a guy that broke records and produced expectations in a way that none of those other disappointments can come close to. A guy like JM Gold can not even be in this conversation in my view...I may have been foolish but I expected a Lou Whitiker type career for Weeks - Hall of Fame credentials

[JimH5]

I think Weeks has been a recent disappointment, but at least he's provided some value over the course of his career. Contrast that with the busload of top draft pick pitching prospects who produced no value at the major league level. Neugebauer, Gold, Mike Jones, Arnett, Rogers, Jeffress,

 

Then add in the performances of Eric Gagne, Greg Brock, Franklin Stubbs, Jeffrey Hammonds--I think Weeks is way down the list for me.

 

Antone Williamson, Chad Green, Krynzel. . .

 

And Dan Thomas is in his own category.

[djoctagone]

i'd factor in that when he signed, he was given a major league contract immediately and thus, took up a 40-man roster spot. whether or not weeks was blocking a waiver claim or the immediate signing of a player non-tendered in the early part of his professional career, we'll never know.

 

i can't remember the last brewer before weeks drafted and when signed that summer, given a major league contract.

[jerichoholicninja]

Not even close.

 

The guy actually made the majors, was an All-Star, and was one of the tops at his position for a few years. That's more than can be said for 95% of the other players to play for the Brewer organization.

[RockCoCougars]

To me, the way the whole Sheffield thing went down is number one and it's not even close. I'd probably put Braggs at number two. Nieves/Neugebauer would be on the list as well, through factors mostly out of their control. Weeks has been kind of like Braggs with better numbers and a bad long term deal to me. Both possessed seemingly endless potential/physical skills, but an inability to get things to 'click'. Incredibly frustrating, but for Rickie you have to consider the injuries as well. In both of the seasons where it looked like he really had gotten it together, he suffered season ending injuries. From what I remember, Braggs also had a season where he really got off to a good start (88?) and then hurt his shoulder.

[Dean Machine]

To me yes, because I was thinking HOF as he was ascending through the minors. Fair or not the expectations were much much higher than what we got. Superstar among superstars and even when he's been "good" it always takes some convincing and finding certain stats where he excelled and his defense has always been horrendous. The only thing that makes me happy is that I originally wanted Delmon Young in that draft and he has been just as big of a disaster.

[Dean Machine]

My fantasy baseball league still laughs at me for proclaiming every year after drafting him that this was the year of Rickie Weeks

[1992casey]

i can't remember the last brewer before weeks drafted and when signed that summer, given a major league contract.

 

Rob Ellis (1971) was the only other Brewer to be signed to a major league contract when drafted. He went directly from college to the majors.

[jerichoholicninja]

To me yes, because I was thinking HOF as he was ascending through the minors. Fair or not the expectations were much much higher than what we got. Superstar among superstars and even when he's been "good" it always takes some convincing and finding certain stats where he excelled and his defense has always been horrendous. The only thing that makes me happy is that I originally wanted Delmon Young in that draft and he has been just as big of a disaster.

 

Ya, his defense has been bad but what kind of "finding certain stats" has to be done? During his peak he was always among the leaders in OPS and HR for second basemen.

[SRB]

Considering 2010 Weeks is arguably the best season by a 2B in Brewers franchise history, seems a little silly calling him the "biggest disappointment" ever.

[markedman5]

As far as Brewer fans are concerned I might vote for Gary Sheffield........he was such an immature jerk that we had to get rid of him without benefitting from his great talent.

[owbc]

Weeks is a tough one. Behind Gantner he's the second best 2B in team history, although you could make a case for Vina. Weeks has shown flashes of brilliance and had some awful extended slumps. Injuries were a huge problem, he's only played two full seasons. Overall, his stats are mediocre, especially when you consider that he was supposedly a can't miss, 5 tool prospect, etc. He seems to be introverted and doesn't have the fan-favorite type of personalty which doesn't help either. There are a lot of parallels with Carlos Gomez--the raw talent is clearly there but we still don't know if Gomez will maintain his success or fade like Weeks did.

 

Ben Sheets might be the #1 disappointment for me. He had Cy Young, hall of fame stuff and after that brilliant 2004 he never could stay off the DL long enough to put together a full season. Then in 2008 he got really hot, 5 CG and 3 shutouts, and he goes down in September right when the Brewers were poised for a World Series run. Sheets never threw another pitch for the Brewers, Suppan got bumped into the playoff rotation, and the rest is history.

 

I tend to think of the guys that never had any success in the majors in a separate category.

[DHonks]

Owbc, Sheets is arguably the best pitcher in Brewers' history.

 

My biggest busts are JM Gold, Nick Neugebauer, Mike Jones, Mark Rogers, Josh Wapepah, Josh. Baker, Jason Belcher, Kade Johnson, Evan Frederickson, and other top picks that flopped.

[owbc]

Owbc, Sheets is arguably the best pitcher in Brewers' history.

 

Yes, that's what makes Sheets and Weeks so frustrating. They could have been the best pitcher and best hitter in team history. Both had their moments, but will mostly be remembered for what could have been.

[molitor fan]

Again, I make a differentiation between busts such as Gold, Williamson and others like Weeks and Sheffield (A very good call by the way).

 

My favorite player of all time was injury ravaged in the early part of his career and was a cocaine user....Molitor overcame this and more to become a Hall of Fame player. Weeks has not been able to rise above his injuries and deficits in his skill set, and while he did have some +.800 OPS seasons, his career as a whole with the Brewers has fallen very shy of what my own expectations were.

[joepepsi]

Weeks is right at the age where Molitor became healthy and put up big numbers. Could Rickie end up in AL as a mostly DH and have a brilliant 3rd act?

[igor67]

On the broadest view I think it is very unfair to Weeks to put that label on him because he has had a substantial amount of success, but it has been in ways that have tended make him underrated. As others have pointed out there are plenty of other high tool flameouts to be more disappointed about because of how little they produced. D'amico and/or Eldred come to mind as players who really did only offer that briefest glimpse of what truly could have been. Plugging into FanGraphs historically derived formula a number 2 draft pick who is a position player out of college should produce 17.94 WAR compared to his current total of 17.2.

 

On the more emotional side of reasoning the disappointment for me stems from the lack of a good reason for him not being spectacular. Athletically there is not a really good reason why he never became at least a consistently average defender. Mostly though that is small potatoes. Those wrists, the results, the high batting average in college and the batting eye all scream a guy who should have a batting average 60-70 points higher than he does with the same easy power. Injuries and the fickle nature of development all tell us guys don't often reach their ceilings, but in Rickie case none of the normal explanations seem to apply all that well and it just kind of hangs there.

[molitor fan]

Wow, igor, thanks for your post - it was brilliant and spoke to what I was not skilled enough to state myself....and pepsi, that freakish ability that igor spoke to is still lurking....if I was the Yankees I would use that Arod money to throw a AA pitcher to the Brewers for Weeks and hope to catch that lightning in a bottle (or wrists).

[RobertR]

Shouldn't B.J. Surhoff, number 1 pick in the draft ahead of Will Clark, Barry Larkin, and Barry Bonds, be in this conversation?

[RockCoCougars]

I thought about Surhoff for this, in some ways he might be the best comparison to Weeks... high draft pick, very little time in the minors, etc. He put up pretty pedestrian numbers for the Brewers (except for that last season), but for whatever reason, I never had huge expectations for him after '87. He was what he was, I guess.

 

This brought to mind another one a bit before my time. From what I've been told, Darrell Porter was supposed to be the next Johnny Bench. His career with the Brewers was pretty subpar, and marred by alcohol and drug abuse.

[gregmag]

I came to this late, so all I can do is play Flava Flav to several people's Chuck D: Gold, Braggs, Neugebauer, Danny Thomas (nice!) . . . it's like a death trip down memory lane. Weeks has actually played right about up to the expectation for a guy drafted where he was. You hope he'll be a Hall of Famer, but that's almost never a realistic expectation. He's been a MLB starter, and he's had some good years.

 

(I would add that you always have to ratchet down expectations for 2bs, because they tend to get hurt a lot and flame out early. That's what makes Gantner such an odd player. He was never great, and only briefly was he really a positive, but he managed to play at a solid, mediocre level for like 50 years. I think Weeks at his peak has clearly been better than Gantner was at his peak. They're almost total opposites as far as their strong points; put the two of them together and you have one of the all-time greats.)

 

BTW, I think Sheets is pretty clearly the second-best pitcher in Brewers' history, in terms of career value. Only Higuera topped him. Sheets is somewhat like Weeks in that injuries had a lot to do with keeping them from better careers, but that happens a lot.

[Frisbee Slider]

One name I didn't see mentioned yet is Ben Hendrickson.

Here is his history on Toby's Power 50.

 

I did not anticipate Ben Hendrickson to be a world-beater

but I did have higher hopes than a career 7.41 ERA and 58.1 IP in

the majors.

 

Lastly, on the topic of best Brewers second baseman, the only

other name I'd submit for consideration is Mark Loretta. Loretta

had some nice defensive versatility, as well.

 

Loretta

 

.289 / .355 / .385

8 seasons and 2,596 AB

 

Weeks

 

.247 / .346 / .422

10 seasons and 3,804 AB

[Invader3K]

The Loretta comparison is interesting. I think he's a guy that has been largely forgotten by many Brewers fans, largely because he played for so many bad Brewers teams. He was arguably better than Weeks.

 

I don't think Weeks has been the biggest disappointment of all time for the franchise, but the amount of injuries and "down seasons" he's had has been pretty maddening. Maybe "most frustrating position player in Brewers history" could be a better title for him.

 

I know a lot of people would still say Sheffield, but he was still very young when he was traded, and went on to have a near Hall of Fame type career. Hard to call that "most disappointing", in my view.

[endaround]

Loretta was not better than Weeks for the Brewers.

[Outlander]

It is certainly possible that Weeks is the biggest disappointment in Brewers history. I mean he is the best second baseman in franchise history but he had very high expectations, probably franchise player type expectations with a possible number retirement expectations. It is hard though to really say biggest disappointment because I certainly was high on JM Gold when he was drafted, same with Antone Williamson, thought Kevin Barker could be rookie of the year, etc. Those guys are long forgotten by most though because they never really did anything in the majors, while people will always remember Weeks because he has played for the Brewers for so long.