Rickie Weeks

[Warning Track Power]

2012-13 were disappointing seasons for Weeks, but I still believe Rickie's floor is Scooter's ceiling.

I agree with you JJ, but I am not sure I can go all the way. I think Rickie's full season floor of 2012, where he put up this slash .230/.328/.400, 21 HR, 63 RBI, has parts that are WAY above Scooter's ceiling such as the HR and RBI. However, I think Rickie's .728 OPS is about where I imagine Scooter being for his career. But I think Scooter should easily surpass Rickie's AVG total annually. The real question for me with Scooter is whether he will ever learn to take his walks. If he does, then I see Scooter being a .290/.340/.400 guy or basically his 2011 season in Appleton where he went: .300/.334/.406, 9 HR, 51 RBI.

[reillymcshane]

Watching Rickie last year he looked like a guy who had lost an edge. His bat is a little slower, he's a little slower, he's lost a little strength. It all adds up to a guy who is guessing more, not taking advantage of mistakes.

 

Here's a short article from Fangraphs last fall about Rickie - how he essentially failed to hit fastballs last year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/is-rickie-weeks-a-bounce-back-candidate/

 

A lot of players simply lose that physical edge around 30ish. A lot of power / BB type guys wash out at this time. Injuries and Father Time simply take their toll.

 

I'm hoping Rickie has a great season, but I just wouldn't bet on it. If he starts, he could easily hit 15 HR and hit .230. Not horrible. But with his bad defense, it's not helping.

[TURBO]

I think some of us are forgetting just how god-awful Weeks has been the past two seasons. This is now a trend, and since he is on the down-side of his career age-wise, I am shocked how many people still think he can turn things around. The only thing Rickie has earned is an outright release, or at best a spot start every now and then.

 

He has been completely over matched at the plate, and his defense has gotten even worse, if that is possible. If he weren't a home grown Brewer, and Melvin considered trading for him, or signing him as a free agent, the majority of this board would groan in disappointment, as they should...

 

The Weeks era looks to be over, and judging by his last two seasons, it should be over. I think we have to ride out his contract and part ways. It happens, and in this case, it needs to happen.

 

Rickie could cure cancer, play gold glove D, slash 300/400/500, and giveaway 500 bobbleheads to blind orphans and it wouldn't change your mind about him. In fact, you'd probably knock him because 50 of the 500 were variants.

 

 

Ummmm, that is a bit extreme. You are right, the last two seasons have made up my mind about Weeks. I can't forget the absolute frustration I have felt during that time about his place in the line-up and on the team...

 

Could I say the same about your view? Rickie could slash 200/250/300 and you would continue to make excuses for him...

[brwrsfan]

I think some of us are forgetting just how god-awful Weeks has been the past two seasons. This is now a trend, and since he is on the down-side of his career age-wise, I am shocked how many people still think he can turn things around. The only thing Rickie has earned is an outright release, or at best a spot start every now and then.

 

He has been completely over matched at the plate, and his defense has gotten even worse, if that is possible. If he weren't a home grown Brewer, and Melvin considered trading for him, or signing him as a free agent, the majority of this board would groan in disappointment, as they should...

 

The Weeks era looks to be over, and judging by his last two seasons, it should be over. I think we have to ride out his contract and part ways. It happens, and in this case, it needs to happen.

 

Rickie could cure cancer, play gold glove D, slash 300/400/500, and giveaway 500 bobbleheads to blind orphans and it wouldn't change your mind about him. In fact, you'd probably knock him because 50 of the 500 were variants.

 

 

Ummmm, that is a bit extreme. You are right, the last two seasons have made up my mind about Weeks. I can't forget the absolute frustration I have felt during that time about his place in the line-up and on the team...

 

Could I say the same about your view? Rickie could slash 200/250/300 and you would continue to make excuses for him...

 

Love this post. I couldn't possibly agree more.

 

Do we all want Weeks to produce this year? Of course. But I just can't figure out the love for him and why so many people defend him to no end. The last two years were infuriating and his lack of production definitely cost the Brewers big time. Sure, he's shown flashes and had good months in him, but the last two years were the exact opposite of that. All signs point to him being on a severe decline, yet the love/excuses for him still exist.

 

If he was a FA and the Brewers signed him, would everyone still think he was going to turn it around? Or would we simply call it a depth move that has very little chance of making an MLB roster? The numbers simply don't lie after 2 seasons, it's no longer a small sample size.

[HiAndTight]

"The logical fallacy here is the assumption that Weeks needs a reason to try hard"

 

Strawman.

 

I did not say that. I did not assume that. Weeks should be healthy. He should be over (hopefully) his loss of his mate, Prince. If the stars are to align for Weeks, it will be at the start of 2014.

 

 

I'm not trying to create a strawman. I didn't mean to mis-quote you or really even argue with you. I guess where I got confused was here;

I hope to see the Brewers have that effort for them

 

I thought that is what you were referring to here, but didn't finish your thought.

 

Either way, my point remains. I think Weeks will struggle with the pressure on him to bounce back from the last two years, and with the pressure from Gennett pushing for playing time. I don't know that there is the evidence to back it up, but Weeks strikes me as the type of player that presses too much in these types of situations and inevitably struggles. He's at his best when there is no competition for the job, and he knows he's going to have a long period of time to get his swing fixed and start to hit.

[SenatorShriv]

I'm not sure where to look this kind of thing up, but Weeks seemed to bulk up significantly a few years ago. Perhaps I'm making that up, but I remember seeing him in spring training a few years ago and thinking - "Dang... that dude hit the weights this off-season." In my mind I have always wondered if that had something to do with his regression at the plate.

 

This is just mindless commentary, but I think there is a real chance that Weeks feels the pressure and steps up again this year. Obviously we all hope that is the case.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not sure where to look this kind of thing up, but Weeks seemed to bulk up significantly a few years ago. Perhaps I'm making that up, but I remember seeing him in spring training a few years ago and thinking - "Dang... that dude hit the weights this off-season." In my mind I have always wondered if that had something to do with his regression at the plate.

No -- I definitely remember the same reaction... maybe 3 or 4 seasons ago at this point? Can't remember exactly when that was, either.

[logan82]

Watching Rickie last year he looked like a guy who had lost an edge. His bat is a little slower, he's a little slower, he's lost a little strength. It all adds up to a guy who is guessing more, not taking advantage of mistakes.

 

Here's a short article from Fangraphs last fall about Rickie - how he essentially failed to hit fastballs last year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/is-rickie-weeks-a-bounce-back-candidate/

 

A lot of players simply lose that physical edge around 30ish. A lot of power / BB type guys wash out at this time. Injuries and Father Time simply take their toll.

 

I'm hoping Rickie has a great season, but I just wouldn't bet on it. If he starts, he could easily hit 15 HR and hit .230. Not horrible. But with his bad defense, it's not helping.

If he hit .230 he would probably still have an OBP around .330 which isn't to bad for a 2B. I am not sure he can do that anymore except, possibly, in a platoon. I think at this point his defense isn't going to come back to average.

 

People, at least myself, defend Weeks becasue up until 2012 he had a good batting line especially for a 2B. As recently as the second half of 2012 he was a very good hitter and the first half of 2012 could be explained away as still recovering from an injury.

 

The main complaints usually seem to stem from Injuries, streakiness, strikeouts, his BA, or his defense.

 

All players are streakier than we think. I am sure Weeks seems a little streakier than a typical player because he usually carries a lower BA and people don't remember walks.

 

I lump strikeouts and batting average together as mostly useless stats people for some reason still care about. Both are already included in much better stats like wOBA and OPS. Strikeouts are marginally worse than other outs.

 

Finally defense. Weeks is a disappointing defender considering his physical tools. Looking back the defensive metrics, I would peg him as about an average defender from 2007-2011. Before and after not good, but again the hope after 2012 was that the ankle injury effected his defense. A season later that doesn't seem to be the case. Even when he was good, the things he did well on defense were much less noticeable, range, than the errors.

 

I can see why people emotionally don't like Weeks because he does poorly in almost everything that makes people angry about baseball, strikeouts, errors, injuries, low BA, while the things he did well go mostly unnoticed, walks, range.

[JohnBriggs12]

Haudricourt in his chat yesterday came out and said "the Brewers hope Weeks plays well in camp so they're able to trade him".

That's what I've said for months. Doesn't sound to me like TH believes there are plans to hand the job back to Weeks either. TH also stated that keeping both Gennett and Weeks would "knock a more versatile player off the bench". That's been my case against keeping Weeks as bench player as well. Bench versatility is a key component to any team.

[monty57]

Haudricourt in his chat yesterday came out and said "the Brewers hope Weeks plays well in camp so they're able to trade him".

That's what I've said for months. Doesn't sound to me like TH believes there are plans to hand the job back to Weeks either. TH also stated that keeping both Gennett and Weeks would "knock a more versatile player off the bench". That's been my case against keeping Weeks as bench player as well. Bench versatility is a key component to any team.

 

The question that brings up is: If he doesn't play well in camp, will they cut him?

 

I agree with you Briggs, that they want to get rid of him, but would rather trade him (even if for nothing but salary relief) than simply cut him. I hate the thought of two guys who only play 2B, especially when paired with two guys who really only play 1B. I just don't know when he could build up enough belief in him to get someone to trade for him. Maybe it's ST, maybe it's a ways into the season when all he's hit against is LHP, giving him the greatest chance to have good "average" stats (OPS, BA, OBP... things that are not "counting stats"). It'd be a small, skewed sample, but on the surface it may get someone to believe in him.

 

Does anyone know if any team in the history of baseball has ever had a platoon of two guys who only play second base?

[reillymcshane]

Haudricourt in his chat yesterday came out and said "the Brewers hope Weeks plays well in camp so they're able to trade him".

That's what I've said for months. Doesn't sound to me like TH believes there are plans to hand the job back to Weeks either. TH also stated that keeping both Gennett and Weeks would "knock a more versatile player off the bench". That's been my case against keeping Weeks as bench player as well. Bench versatility is a key component to any team.

 

The question that brings up is: If he doesn't play well in camp, will they cut him?

 

I agree with you Briggs, that they want to get rid of him, but would rather trade him (even if for nothing but salary relief) than simply cut him. I hate the thought of two guys who only play 2B, especially when paired with two guys who really only play 1B. I just don't know when he could build up enough belief in him to get someone to trade for him. Maybe it's ST, maybe it's a ways into the season when all he's hit against is LHP, giving him the greatest chance to have good "average" stats (OPS, BA, OBP... things that are not "counting stats"). It'd be a small, skewed sample, but on the surface it may get someone to believe in him.

 

Does anyone know if any team in the history of baseball has ever had a platoon of two guys who only play second base?

 

I think they cut Rickie if he looks bad and can't trade him. A Rickie/Scooter platoon isn't a bad idea, but we already have a platoon at 1B. I think the team will just say it's Scooter's job (with our utility IF getting some starts here and there). No distractions, no controversies. Just make the decision and move on.

 

Rickie (and Scooter) are limited to 2B. It's foolish to waste two players at that position - especially one that would only get 30-40 starts - and isn't that good. If Rickie crushed lefties I might consider the option. The last three years he's hit .245 with a .755 OPS against lefties. That's pretty good for a 2B. But not for a part timer who is a bad defender. It's just not worth it.

[reillymcshane]

I'm not sure where to look this kind of thing up, but Weeks seemed to bulk up significantly a few years ago. Perhaps I'm making that up, but I remember seeing him in spring training a few years ago and thinking - "Dang... that dude hit the weights this off-season." In my mind I have always wondered if that had something to do with his regression at the plate.

 

This is just mindless commentary, but I think there is a real chance that Weeks feels the pressure and steps up again this year. Obviously we all hope that is the case.

I always wondered about that. He got bigger. Maybe if Rickie trimmed down some he'd be a better defender - perhaps even get some bat speed back. Of course, it would probably affect his power. But considering he only hit 10 last year - that's not that big of a deal.

[RockCoCougars]

If the Brewers keep Weeks, Scooter will be down in Nashville. They aren't going to keep two guys who can only play 2B, especially considering the mishmash at 1B and the fact that they like to keep 12 or 13 pitchers around. Personally, I think that you have to give Weeks another shot. If he gets off to another horrible start, then you make a move.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm a Weeks basher and it goes like this: Poor BA, Ks too much. Sure he walks a bunch but walks don't net RBI when the team needs clutch hits. He's poor defensively. And he costs way more than he's worth. I'd take Bonifacio over Weeks and Bonifacio just got a Minor League contract so yeah Weeks is only worth League minimum. I mean, tell me what stands out after the ability to walk with Weeks? the HRs? they weren't there last season. The guy is on mass decline and I'm thinking next year he's going to be playing in Japan or retired completely.

 

I truly hope the team/Melvin does the right thing and dumps Weeks on some other team or DFA's him before the season begins so we don't have to deal with this whole platoon crap at 2b.

[SoupTown]

To find out what Haudricourt thinks the Brewers are thinking re Weeks, one should read the entire chat. There was a lot of Weeks (no just one throw away line) comment in there.

 

I agree with the comment "if Weeks is on the team, then Scooter will end up with a month in AAA." It just makes too, too much sense. You let Weeks play every day in MLB. You let Scooter play every day in AAA. THEN you make your decision a month into the season.

 

And, to be sure, one can even use spring training as the 'pre one month'. That is, there is no excuse for Weeks or Scooter to struggle in spring training. This will be one spring training that means a lot. Because the 'body of work' on the two players is mixed. Weeks... is he really done and dusted, and no good for ever more. Scooter... is he really a MLB average type player.

[logan82]

As a leadoff hitter hitting behind the worst hitters on the team the difference between a walk or single is even smaller.

[endaround]

But cutting Weeks doesn't solve the main problem. Gennett can't hit left handed pitching. His career splits in the minor leagues are .259/.294/.349. He needs to be platooned. Unless you are a huge Elain Herrera backer I don't see what cutting Weeks solves except to placate certain fans.

[brewcrewdue80]

But cutting Weeks doesn't solve the main problem. Gennett can't hit left handed pitching. His career splits in the minor leagues are .259/.294/.349. He needs to be platooned. Unless you are a huge Elain Herrera backer I don't see what cutting Weeks solves except to placate certain fans.

 

I don't know how many other players started at 2b last season but if it were truly just Weeks and Gennett then 39 Games total were thrown by LH Starters. And while Gennett was very poor vs LHP all-told his ABs vs LH Starters was to the tune of .296/.321/.407

This compared to: .195/.300/.327 by Weeks in a much, much larger sample size.

 

And again, when going against a LH Starter you can put Gennett 8 in the order he'll see 2 PAs maybe 3 with the pitcher batting behind him. If Gennett is a contact hitter say the likes of Fernando Vina he'll be fine when he sees the pitcher more and more.

 

I don't get the argument in this when posters are complaining how you can't have 2 2b only guys to plattoon on a team, and you have the best option from the LH side which accounts for 3/4 of the Platoon starts? Where's your solution? You want to keep Weeks? Or you want to keep Gennett? 1/4 starts or 3/4 starts? Something is missing here no? 11mil or less than 3mil for the next 4years?

 

I'm sorry but 2+WAR 2b that don't come up through our system aren't just out there in the scrap heaps to sign. I figure Gennett is a 2WAR 2b give or take a WAR. I don't see him being a negative WAR when he hits RHP so well that accounts for 3/4 of the season.

 

Are we in a Video Game world? Are every single position player that suits up for Milwaukee supposed to OPS .800+? Sorry I think that's too low .900+? I feel like those against Gennett believe there's .800+OPS 2b sitting at home reading this forum waiting to be signed. They don't need to be platooned either they will OPS over .800 no matter what side of the plate they bat from. Or even better, are they hoping there's a .735OPS guy out to be signed yeah cause that's a big improvement over Gennett's expectations? Is the guy a Gold Glove? Then yeah that's a big improvement. Name the Gold Glover out there for me to sign though?

 

Gennett is this team's best option for 2014. There's nothing in the last 2 seasons of Weeks that can be argued against that.

[Mr Southpaw]

But cutting Weeks doesn't solve the main problem. Gennett can't hit left handed pitching. His career splits in the minor leagues are .259/.294/.349. He needs to be platooned. Unless you are a huge Elain Herrera backer I don't see what cutting Weeks solves except to placate certain fans.

 

Start Bianchi

[monty57]

I agree with the comment "if Weeks is on the team, then Scooter will end up with a month in AAA." It just makes too, too much sense. You let Weeks play every day in MLB. You let Scooter play every day in AAA. THEN you make your decision a month into the season.

 

The problem is Weeks' vesting option. If he is the everyday guy, then he is going to be on pace to hit the 600 PA needed for his option to vest. Neither the Brewers nor any potential trading partner want the option to vest, so giving him a lot of PA's early in the season is probably not going to happen unless Gennett gets hurt in spring training.

[JohnBriggs12]

But cutting Weeks doesn't solve the main problem. Gennett can't hit left handed pitching. His career splits in the minor leagues are .259/.294/.349. He needs to be platooned. Unless you are a huge Elain Herrera backer I don't see what cutting Weeks solves except to placate certain fans.

 

Start Bianchi

 

What, Gennett's AB's against LHP weren't included in his .324 BA last year? He had 41 plate appearances vs. LHP last year. Counsell went hitless in more consecutive PA's than that a few years ago. He's a better hitter vs. RHP., granted, but 41 plate appearances doesn't mean he'll hit .154 vs. LHP for his career. Still he can hit .154 against blue eyed blonds, if he hits .324 overall.

 

Bianchi is the likely utility man, and he's going to get some starts to stay sharp. Some of those will come at Gennett's expense vs. lefties.

 

This is a lineup with a ton of RH thunder that should murder LHP, whether Gennett is in the lineup or not. His LH bat is far more valuable in a lineup short on LH hitters and if he needs to stay in the lineup against some LHP to stay sharp, then fine.

[monty57]

How we deal with Gennett vs LHP should be less of a concern than how to maximize value from Weeks (even if max value is not much). The Gennett "problem" is easy... theutility guy can get some starts, and Gennett getting a a few PAs vs LHP isn't that big an issue.

 

Purely from that standpoint, do we get more "value" by cutting Weeks and having someone else on the team, or by letting him be a RH batter off the bench / platoon partner at 2B? If we had a great alternative, I think we'd cut him. However, the other options are players like Gindl and Green, so there is no one forcing Weeks off the 25-man. If Melvin can find someone to trade for Weeks and take some/all of the salary off his hands, I'm sure he would. If not, we're probably just better off letting him be a RH bat off the bench, and RH part of the platoon. Hopefully, he'll do well enough in that role that someone who needs a 2B will trade for him a few months into the season.

 

If he continues to stink, then we can cut him and eat his salary a month into the season just as easily as we could cut him now, but by that point we may have a better idea for how best to use his spot on the roster. I hate having two 2B-only guys, and I have no illusions that we will get anything of value from Weeks, but we still need to try to maximize any value that's there.

[Mr Southpaw]

Start Bianchi against leftie starters if you want to platoon Scooter. If you think Scooter can hit lefties, leave him in. I was only proposing a solution if Weeks were traded or cut.

[endaround]

1) Bianchi can't hit. So no he isn't an option to platoon with Gennett since his only role should be SS and emergency fill in (maybe defensive replacement on occasion). Bianchi hopefully gets fewer than 100 PAs on the season.

 

2)Gennett is not going to hit .334. He is not going to have a BABIP of .380 in any given year. Turn that back to a .330 like he has done in the minor leagues and give him a realistic ISO of .110 he hits .284/.315/.394. Basically what Gennett hit in September (and his BABIP was still high that month). Turn that into a .300 BABIP and he's a .254/.285/.374 hitter.

 

3)Platooning Gennett isn't to get a .800 OPS 2B, it is to hopefully get a .740 OPS 2B.

[logan82]

Ideally we would want a guy like Bianchi who could hit more. The problem is they call them starting SS.