Rickie Weeks

[fondybrewfan]

Why do you completely disregard Gennet's 125 OPS+ in 200+ PA's in Milwaukee? He is not going to duplicate the 125 again in all likelihood but he showed he had the capability to be a decent 2nd basemen.

 

That is like looking at Thornburg's horrific 2013 AAA numbers and expecting him to be terrible despite his very strong MLB campaign. It is basically the same situation. It seems to be a very pessimistic view.

 

I don't expect Gennett to be an all star or anything like that; but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect him to be better than Weeks even though he doesn't quite have the power.

[Outlander]

Correct, completely disregarding what somebody does at the major league level is foolish but still a small sample compared to his minor league numbers. I would love to see Weeks go though because it will not be hard at all for him to get worse, he is at the stage of his career where all he is going to do is get worse, Gennett on the other hand can still get better.

[jerichoholicninja]

Why do you completely disregard Gennet's 125 OPS+ in 200+ PA's in Milwaukee?

 

Martin Maldonado

2012 - 256 PA, 93 OPS+

2013 - 202 PA, 41 OPS+

[fondybrewfan]

Um Ok?

 

It is still completely arbitary to look only at his AAA stats in 2013 while completely ignoring his better stats at MLB during the same year with roughly the same amount of plate appearances. The MLB numbers did actually happen.

 

Maldanado also got an extended period of playing time in 2012 and was strictly a bench player in 2013. That might explain the big drop off more than his actualy level of talent. Perhaps he just can't be successful getting 5-10 AB's a week

[brewcrewdue80]

Why do you completely disregard Gennet's 125 OPS+ in 200+ PA's in Milwaukee?

 

Martin Maldonado

2012 - 256 PA, 93 OPS+

2013 - 202 PA, 41 OPS+

 

Yes that's a great comparison right?

To each their own. Maldonado's bat was never anything expected to reach at least average. 2012 was clearly playing over his ability.

Now taking Gennett whose bat was at least average with Contact abilities to maybe make him above average.

Gennett has the expectations to bat .270 give or take 20pts.

Maldonado though is a .225 batter give or take 20pts.

It's a poor comparison.

[jerichoholicninja]

Gennett had an .834 OPS in the majors last year. He hasn't had an OPS that high in the minors since A ball. And, like has been pointed out many times, his OPS has gotten worse every time he advances a level. My point is that people really need to temper their expectations for Gennett based off of 1/3 of a season. Lots of people thought that Fiers was going to be good after his 2012 season too. There were posters that wanted Maldanado to play first after his 2012. His 2013 was disastrously bad with the bat.

 

Do I think Gennett will outperform Weeks in 2014? It's very likely, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Gennett fall on his face and put up numbers like Weeks did last year as well. I also know that this is almost certainly Weeks last year with the team and Gennett will take over in 2015 regardless of how he does this season and I think he will be adequate until the team is ready to add someone much better or they develop a 2nd baseman.

[brewcrewdue80]

My expectation of Gennett isn't anywhere near where he was last season. I made a post before how just a .725-.740OPS would put Gennett in the top half of everyday starting 2b. And I believe he can achieve that. And yeah his OPS has fallen every jump up in level but did he repeat those levels the next season? No he never did. Let him grow and catch up to the level he's now going to be playing. The thing about Gennett is that his K% is under 16% over his Minors career. Sure his BB% needs work but with that kind of K rate you're looking for him to be a .270s hitter maybe he freaks out another year with a .300 BA due to a decent BABIP and another season he bats .245 due to a poor BABIP. Weeks doesn't stand a chance though of a .270 BA regardless how high his BABIP is. Weeks will only reach a .245 on a good season moving forward barring some kind of drastic reduction of his K%.

 

Again maybe being with the Big club he learns a thing or two from his teammates how to draw a few extra walks. So while we hope he goes .270/.320 maybe he reaches .275/.340 as he adjusts and learns.

 

The comparisons of Fiers or Maldonado to mute our expectations on Gennett are off as neither were never in Milwaukee's top 10 prospects. I don't even think Fiers' ceiling was one to be a solid #4. And maldonado is all defense with a glint of hope the bat is average.

 

I actually have more Faith moving forward in Gennett than I do Khris Davis who surprise, surprise also had a decline in OPS every jump up the minors.....Why is it mentioned for Scooter but ignored with Davis? Ah, yes because everyone digs the long ball right? I am just not confident in where Davis slides in to Milwaukee's lineup. I feel if he's #6/#7 in the batting order he's just going to be pitched around to avoid giving up a HR ball. We'll see how his nerves are to accept that as he may go weeks between HRs with that strategy employed....if he sits back takes the walks and doesn't instead become impatient and start trying to swing away at these pitches. I can see a closer to Weeks batting line by Davis if he gets impatient.

[endaround]

The fact that Tom Haudricourt did not list Moldanado or Fiers in his list doesn't mean much. And hoping for a.725 to .740 OPS is overestimating Gennett. If he hits .270 he'll likely have an OBP of .300 or so.

[danzig6767]

...and if he sucks as part of this platoon everyone is mentioning, how long do we trot him out there, potentially costing us wins, before our manager finally wises up and benches him for good?

 

I'm not a fan of Rickie being part of a platoon that our manager can't figure out isn't working until it is too late...

 

Given how poorly Gennett has hit vs lefties through his minor league career, it would be pretty hard for Weeks to do worse.

Did you not see Weeks play last year? Oh yes, it could be worse, it could be a lot worse, and the thought of watching another season like Rickie had last year, even in a platoon situatuion, sickens me...

Well, as crazy bad as Weeks was overall last year, he still managed to hit significantly better vs major league lefties than Gennett did vs AAA lefties. These are the facts

 

Gennett in AAA/AA

 

2013 vs lefties-- .262 OBP/.592 OPS

2012 vs lefties-- .271 OBP/.607 OPS

 

Weeks

 

2013 vs lefties-- .328 OBP/.705 OPS

2012 vs lefties-- .387 OBP/.740 OPS

 

The numbers aren't even really close. Weeks at his absolute worst can still hit major lefties better than Gennett has hit AA/AAA lefties. So the obvious solution is to platoon them. Facts trump perceptions. Gennett would get the majority of at bats given there are many more righthanded pitchers and the team wouldn't be putting him in the position of having to do something which he does quite badly, hit vs lefthanders.

[Warning Track Power]

With the Yankees looking for a 2B now that Infante has signed with the Royals, I wonder if they would have any interest in Rickie Weeks. I would love Gardner but the FO is determined to give K. Davis LF. I am not sure there really is a fit with them given we would be looking for a 3B/1B/P and they have A-Rod, Tex and weaknesses at P. Maybe a third team could get involved and help get Rickie to NY.

[danzig6767]

If the Brewers could be lucky enough to simply get the Yankees to take on most or all of Weeks contract, i don't think Melvin would care at all what he got in return. It could be an A ball pitcher drafted in the 40th round who only throws 83mph and if i'm Melvin, i'd say yes quicker than it takes for Rickie to look at a first pitch fastball which splits the center of the plate.

[recte44]

Put Rickie at 1B. Problem solved all around.

[TURBO]

Put Rickie at 1B. Problem solved all around.

 

Should that be in blue?

[DHonks]

recte, that's hilarious. Then every throw to first can be like our current bunt plays where Rickie has terrible footwork, ducks when the runner gets close, and then is seen chasing the ball down the RF line.

[bill hAll Star]

Darwin Barney and Jose Iglesias also come to mind as slap hitters that hit for a stretch and had the MLB Network guys calling them stud hitters before their hitting fell off a cliff back to their expected numbers (.650ish OPS). Gennett was right on track there hitting an unreasonable .420/.450/.600 with pitchers throwing it right at him and then dropped down to .290/.310/.390 the last two months, which I think is what his high water season is over his MLB career.

 

If a team gives him a chance (seems like the Brewers will) I think his career best full season is going to be a .700 OPS batting against only righties.

 

He's also not a defensive stud like the aforementioned two players.

[fleehaw]

I'll say that I was pleasantly surprised with Gennett's defense. I thought he should good range albeit with an arm that strictly limits him to 2B.

[BallFour]

I don't think a Gennett is a pure slap hitter as you have pegged him to be like Iglesias or Barney. Gennett has double digit home run potential for sure which Barney and Iglesias won't ever achieve. It is too early to debate whether he is a long term solution or not. But you have to have some sort of platoon with Weeks this season because his numbers against lefties are nothing to write home about.

 

I also would like to point out I was mildly impressed with his glove last year, probably because i have had to watch Weeks for the last 7 years. Now he is nowhere near Iglesias or Barney. Remember when Segura was going to have to make the switch to second because of his range? I don't put too much stock in scouts defensive grades after watching Segura play defense for a whole season up in the bigs.

[TURBO]

It is easy to be impressed with Gennett's glove when so many here just ripped him apart for his defense before ever seeing him play. When you constantly read here how bad he is, you tend to think he really is that bad... So many here read up on players, use their fancy grids, stats and graphs and don't base their opinions on the eye test.

 

I saw Scooter play a full season in 2010, and he was not a liability defensively, yet according to the posters here, he is a horrible hack, and could never consider being a MLB starter...

 

Scooter will never be a top 5 player with the bat or his glove, but he is more than serviceable, and compared to the crap we have put up with at 2B the past several years, he is a BIG improvement.

[danzig6767]

Darwin Barney and Jose Iglesias also come to mind as slap hitters that hit for a stretch and had the MLB Network guys calling them stud hitters before their hitting fell off a cliff back to their expected numbers (.650ish OPS). Gennett was right on track there hitting an unreasonable .420/.450/.600 with pitchers throwing it right at him and then dropped down to .290/.310/.390 the last two months, which I think is what his high water season is over his MLB career.

 

If a team gives him a chance (seems like the Brewers will) I think his career best full season is going to be a .700 OPS batting against only righties.

 

He's also not a defensive stud like the aforementioned two players.

 

Weeks was so bad last year that to me it makes sense to try a platoon this season between him and Gennett and see how it works out. Plus, even if Scooter ends up being only decent defensively, that's an upgrade over Rickie who was nearly as bad defensively as he was at the plate.

 

That way if Gennett hits pretty well vs righthanders and Weeks vs lefties, there is a chance to get at least league average production or maybe slightly above that from the position because just playing either guy everyday doesn't strike me as having the same odds of reaching at least league average production.

[SRB]

compared to the crap we have put up with at 2B the past several years, he is a BIG improvement.

Weeks had one bad season. Before that he was a very solid 2B and not that long ago looked like one of the top 2B in baseball. I think you're giving up on him too soon.

 

If I were running things I would make Weeks the starter and Gennett the back-up, but since it seems they're doing it the other way around they at least need to keep Weeks as a backup.

 

I have high hopes for Gennett, but you don't make a young guy with an extremely mixed track record your everyday starter with no backup unless he is an elite prospect (like top-20 in baseball, and maybe not even then) and Gennett has never even been the top prospect inside the mediocre Milwaukee farm system.

[Woozee]

compared to the crap we have put up with at 2B the past several years, he is a BIG improvement.

Weeks had one bad season. Before that he was a very solid 2B and not that long ago looked like one of the top 2B in baseball. I think you're giving up on him too soon.

 

If I were running things I would make Weeks the starter and Gennett the back-up, but since it seems they're doing it the other way around they at least need to keep Weeks as a backup.

 

I have high hopes for Gennett, but you don't make a young guy with an extremely mixed track record your everyday starter with no backup unless he is an elite prospect (like top-20 in baseball, and maybe not even then) and Gennett has never even been the top prospect inside the mediocre Milwaukee farm system.

 

Being injured for long periods isn't bad??

 

Age has a tendency to project more injuries and slower recovery.

[phnxcrew]

It seems to me there will be rickie weeks apologists saying "it's too early to give up on him" until he is at least 80 years old.... it isn't that his overall line is always horrible because of a good stretch once a year, but when he's bad he can't bunt, can't make contact, can't field, can't catch a flyball (for 80+ games)- he is about as useful as having bilbo baggins playing 2b. In all actuality, I would prefer to have bilbo baggins playing over weeks. ANYTHING that Scooter can do is better than rickie... average defense, average hitting, who cares? Those 80+ games that a black hole plays 2b for us destroys our run producing ability.

[SoupTown]

I am sure Weeks will be the right hand bat of a platoon for the first six weeks or so. If he is recent Rickie, he will be released mid May - and we will bench up a batter short to keep the rule V guy. My opinion is he will find a bit of form and do a .260 ave / .360 obp and be a good lead off for his side of the platoon. He will get about half the starts (all vs lefties and a bit vs righties).

 

He will not get his 600 at bats. And we will quietly part ways after the year.

 

I actually even can think RR and Doug MAY send Scooter to AAA for the first six weeks to see how Rickie does. That is actually my preference. I feel we will platoon at first, so no need to platoon at 2nd as well.

[JohnBriggs12]

I am sure Weeks will be the right hand bat of a platoon for the first six weeks or so. If he is recent Rickie, he will be released mid May - and we will bench up a batter short to keep the rule V guy. My opinion is he will find a bit of form and do a .260 ave / .360 obp and be a good lead off for his side of the platoon. He will get about half the starts (all vs lefties and a bit vs righties).

 

He will not get his 600 at bats. And we will quietly part ways after the year.

 

I actually even can think RR and Doug MAY send Scooter to AAA for the first six weeks to see how Rickie does. That is actually my preference. I feel we will platoon at first, so no need to platoon at 2nd as well.

 

 

You are believing the smoke screen. Just as Melvin put up a smoke screen saying they weren't dealing Aoki, it was in their plans all along. Davis and Gennett won jobs in 2013 and that's the direction they are going. They have to say or imply some sort of role for him because he's still on the roster. The only reason Weeks is still on the roster is because they are hoping a decent spring and they'll be able to deal him and save a few million dollars. The Weeks ship sailed. He has little to no value as a one position part time player.

[bill hAll Star]

For those saying people are being too apprehensive to give up on Rickie, I don't think it's really a bunch of apologists being sentimental about him. I think it's more that the guy was an .850 OPS hitter in his prime with defensive athleticism. A reasonable uptick back to norms (knowing that he'll never be the same as he was) may suggest .750.

 

On the other hand, that is basically Gennett's ceiling unless he has a random Pedroia-esque breakout, which is much more the exception than the norm.

 

And for the record, Gennett's defense is that standard, "he makes the easy plays" which I would definitely take over Weeks at this point. The problem is that it'll be overrated a bit. He seems like a total casual fan player. Decent batting average, hits the gaps, doesn't make many errors. He'll be loved by the casual fan but his value to the team will be much less than that.

 

I'll correct myself a bit for calling him a "slap hitter." He's a little better than that, but the sub-.700 OPS we'll likely see will amount to a slap hitter.