90s Brewers Similarities to 10s Brewers

[Warning Track Power]

The comparison may not be 100% accurate but the construction of the current lineup for the Brewers team is starting to feel quite similar to those of the mid 90s Brewers teams to me.

 

Going around the horn...

 

Catcher

90s Nilsson

10s Lucroy

Solid offensive catchers. Love Lucroy but also loved Nilsson offensive production behind the plate.

 

1B

90s Jaha

10s Hart (likely)

Similar in build (Scratch this). Similar in production. Hart walks less

 

2B

90s Vina/Loretta

10s Gennett

I think we all hope that Gennett could be the second coming of Loretta with the leadoff abilities of a Vina.

 

SS

90s Valentin/Loretta

10s Segura

While we pray that Segura is not the second coming of Jose Valentin.

 

3B

90s Cirillo

10s Ramirez

Not as much of a similarity here given they are two completely different type of players with Cirillo being the high AVG, good glove and Ramirez being the high power, less glove 3B.

 

OF

90s Vaughn, Jenkins, Burnitz, Newfield, Mieske

10s Braun, Gomez, Davis, Gindl, Schafer

This is what got me thinking about the topic. Vaughn and Braun the anchors of the lineup, Gomez and Jenkins were the high risers, and Davis/Gindl remind me so much of the Newfield/Mieske combination. I remember thinking Newfield was going to replace Vaughn and flashed so well after that deal, similar to what Davis did in the 2nd half of 2013. Davis profiles to me as a Burnitz type of hitter as well and I for one hope he is more Burnitz than Newfield. I also remember thinking Mieske could fill the role we are hoping Gindl fills now as the 4th OF.

 

Like I said, it may not be the same feeling for everyone, but I really see a lot of similarities in terms of where the Brewers are currently in their roster construction and where they were in the mid-90s with their roster construction.

[JohnBriggs12]

The 96 team scored a whopping 894 runs. Amazingly that was no better than 7th in the AL that year. That would have led all of baseball by a wide margin in 2013. Of course other than Ben McDonald (3.90) no other Brewer starter had an ERA under 4.86. So this team has a long way to go to match the prowess of the 96 team which really was the peak year for that group. But it's a more pitching dominant game now so tough to compare.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think the only similarity is that they are a team with talent but not enough talent to compete and a bare minor league system.

[craigharmann]

Hart listed at 6'6, 235, Jaha listed at 6'1, 195. I don't know about similarities there.

[Warning Track Power]

Hart listed at 6'6, 235, Jaha listed at 6'1, 195. I don't know about similarities there.

Oops...good call! I read the size for a different guy on Baseball Reference (listed at 6'4" and 220 who wasn't Jaha). My mistake!

[endaround]

Hart listed at 6'6, 235, Jaha listed at 6'1, 195. I don't know about similarities there.

Oops...good call! I read the size for a different guy on Baseball Reference (listed at 6'4" and 220 who wasn't Jaha). My mistake!

 

And I would take that 195 with a grain of salt. He wasn't Matt Stairs but:

 

http://img.comc.com/zoom/787eb113-efba-42db-ac08-a3d1dc2ab214.jpg

[DHonks]

Jaha had a lot more injuries than Hart (although not as easy to say with Hart missing '13). However, both were very athletic, powerful, very good defensively at 1b

[colbyjack]

I think the one most obvious similarity is that the current Brewers team, at least some of the key components, have been playing together for a decent string of years, or at least they were 1-2 years ago. The 90s players mentioned spent a pretty good chunk of time together. Lots of injuries and missed expectations.

 

Without dwelling on that, what I find interesting is trying to figure out what players may have been cultivated as a result of trades/departures of some of the team's most notable players. In my opinion, that is really where previous general managers have failed, getting little to nothing in return for the team's top players. And for the most part, most of these trades were for the most part ripped apart when they happened, so it's not like I say this only in hindsight.

 

Jose Valentin was actually a decent MLB SS, and was part of arguably the worst trade in team history. At least the players that came in return for Cirillo contributed, even if those contributions were average at best (and I was surprised to see Jamey Wright still pitching this past year).

 

Vina, Juan Acevedo. Jaha and Nilsson, free agents. Newfield, was supposed to replace Vaughn, possibly an upgrade, but steroids and other "performance" enhancing drugs got in the way. The trade of Vaughn led to a very roundabout series of relievers/closers, as Bryce Florie led to Mike Myers which led to Curtis Leskanic, Wes Obermueller, Danny Kolb and Jose Capellan. Ron Villone, another part of the Vaughn deal, lead to Marquis Grissom and Jeff Juden. Grissom led to Devon White, who had one of his best years with the Brewers, his last as a big-leaguer.

 

However there is one lasting ripple effect of one players on that list: Mark Loretta, one of my most favorite string of trades/player acquisitions in team history. Loretta was traded for Wayne Franklin and Keith Ginter. Ginter was part of a deal for Nelson Cruz who was part of a deal for Francisco Cordero. Cordero left as a free agent, netting the Brewers a comp pick used to get Jake Odorizzi. Odorizzi was traded as part of a deal for Zack Greinke, who of course was traded to net a package that included Jean Segura.

 

Thank you Mark Loretta.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

I think the one most obvious similarity is that the current Brewers team, at least some of the key components, have been playing together for a decent string of years, or at least they were 1-2 years ago. The 90s players mentioned spent a pretty good chunk of time together. Lots of injuries and missed expectations.

 

Without dwelling on that, what I find interesting is trying to figure out what players may have been cultivated as a result of trades/departures of some of the team's most notable players. In my opinion, that is really where previous general managers have failed, getting little to nothing in return for the team's top players. And for the most part, most of these trades were for the most part ripped apart when they happened, so it's not like I say this only in hindsight.

 

Jose Valentin was actually a decent MLB SS, and was part of arguably the worst trade in team history. At least the players that came in return for Cirillo contributed, even if those contributions were average at best (and I was surprised to see Jamey Wright still pitching this past year).

 

Vina, Juan Acevedo. Jaha and Nilsson, free agents. Newfield, was supposed to replace Vaughn, possibly an upgrade, but steroids and other "performance" enhancing drugs got in the way. The trade of Vaughn led to a very roundabout series of relievers/closers, as Bryce Florie led to Mike Myers which led to Curtis Leskanic, Wes Obermueller, Danny Kolb and Jose Capellan. Ron Villone, another part of the Vaughn deal, lead to Marquis Grissom and Jeff Juden. Grissom led to Devon White, who had one of his best years with the Brewers, his last as a big-leaguer.

 

However there is one lasting ripple effect of one players on that list: Mark Loretta, one of my most favorite string of trades/player acquisitions in team history. Loretta was traded for Wayne Franklin and Keith Ginter. Ginter was part of a deal for Nelson Cruz who was part of a deal for Francisco Cordero. Cordero left as a free agent, netting the Brewers a comp pick used to get Jake Odorizzi. Odorizzi was traded as part of a deal for Zack Greinke, who of course was traded to net a package that included Jean Segura.

 

Thank you Mark Loretta.

 

Whoa that's pretty cool. Who would've thought that one small move in 90s could have an impact on the team 17 years later? Segura was a kid when the Loretta trade happened.

[DocLuna7]

I think the one most obvious similarity is that the current Brewers team, at least some of the key components, have been playing together for a decent string of years, or at least they were 1-2 years ago. The 90s players mentioned spent a pretty good chunk of time together. Lots of injuries and missed expectations.

 

Without dwelling on that, what I find interesting is trying to figure out what players may have been cultivated as a result of trades/departures of some of the team's most notable players. In my opinion, that is really where previous general managers have failed, getting little to nothing in return for the team's top players. And for the most part, most of these trades were for the most part ripped apart when they happened, so it's not like I say this only in hindsight.

 

Jose Valentin was actually a decent MLB SS, and was part of arguably the worst trade in team history. At least the players that came in return for Cirillo contributed, even if those contributions were average at best (and I was surprised to see Jamey Wright still pitching this past year).

 

Vina, Juan Acevedo. Jaha and Nilsson, free agents. Newfield, was supposed to replace Vaughn, possibly an upgrade, but steroids and other "performance" enhancing drugs got in the way. The trade of Vaughn led to a very roundabout series of relievers/closers, as Bryce Florie led to Mike Myers which led to Curtis Leskanic, Wes Obermueller, Danny Kolb and Jose Capellan. Ron Villone, another part of the Vaughn deal, lead to Marquis Grissom and Jeff Juden. Grissom led to Devon White, who had one of his best years with the Brewers, his last as a big-leaguer.

 

However there is one lasting ripple effect of one players on that list: Mark Loretta, one of my most favorite string of trades/player acquisitions in team history. Loretta was traded for Wayne Franklin and Keith Ginter. Ginter was part of a deal for Nelson Cruz who was part of a deal for Francisco Cordero. Cordero left as a free agent, netting the Brewers a comp pick used to get Jake Odorizzi. Odorizzi was traded as part of a deal for Zack Greinke, who of course was traded to net a package that included Jean Segura.

 

Thank you Mark Loretta.

 

Whoa that's pretty cool. Who would've thought that one small move in 90s could have an impact on the team 17 years later? Segura was a kid when the Loretta trade happened.

 

Dean Taylor.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jaha had as much power to the opposite field as any hitter I've ever seen. He loved hitting in old Tiger Stadium. He had 10 HR there in 120 plate appearances. Almost all of those were deposited in the upper deck in RF. He might have hit 55 or so home runs had he played for the Tigers in those days.

[colbyjack]

Agreed Briggs. John Jaha's oppo field power was very similar to Mike Piazza's. Just incredible strength in his swing. If he would have had a more healthy career he would have put up some impressive career numbers. Not Piazza-esque, but still pretty dang good.

[Warning Track Power]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1996.shtml

I have often wondered if the 1996 Brewers could have made the playoffs with a pitching staff that didn't have an ERA of 5.14. They finished 8 GB the Orioles who won the Wild Card who also ironically had an ERA of 5.14. That 1996 team had some legitimate talent across the board even if they were a little short in the OF. Speed with Vina, Valentin and Listach. Power with Vaughn, Jaha and Valentin. Average with Cirillo, Seitzer and Jaha. That was a solid team.

[brewers4eric]

Most Brewer teams detailed on the Baseball Reference site are characterized by run scoring power hitting lineups that didn't have enough pitching depth to get them to the playoffs. The 1987 team was another example, Higuera, Wegman, and Nieves kept them in most games but the rest of the starters couldn't get the ball to Crim and Plesac with a lead. I really wish Molitor could have stayed healthy that year, the team's record when he was on the disabled list was startling.

 

At the time, I thought that the trade where they sent Wickman, Bere, and Woodard to the Indians for Richie Sexson was significant for the Brewers because it was one of the few times where they had pitching depth to trade for offense. The pitching depth might have been an short term aberration, but at least they didn't have to deploy Charlie Hayes at first anymore.

 

My perception of Doug Melvin is that he likes to have power up and down the lineup, especially in uncommon positions like second base and center field. Given some health in 2014, we should be able to score some runs, but we don't have the depth or quality of pitching to get us to the playoffs. I like the 400 foot bomb as much as anyone, but guys like CC Sabathia, Zach Greinke, and Don Sutton get you to the postseason.

 

Wake up and smell the tailgate, the winter meetings are approaching. Go Brewers.

[DocLuna7]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1996.shtml

I have often wondered if the 1996 Brewers could have made the playoffs with a pitching staff that didn't have an ERA of 5.14. They finished 8 GB the Orioles who won the Wild Card who also ironically had an ERA of 5.14. That 1996 team had some legitimate talent across the board even if they were a little short in the OF. Speed with Vina, Valentin and Listach. Power with Vaughn, Jaha and Valentin. Average with Cirillo, Seitzer and Jaha. That was a solid team.

 

I remember enjoying watching that team, and went to a lot of games that year. If I remember correctly that was the year that we traded Vaughn at the trade deadline for Bryce Florie, Ron Villone, and Marc Newfield. I also wonder if we might have stayed in the race a bit longer without the 90's era inevitable deadline deal that seemed to suck the life out of the team and the fanbase.

[endaround]

The ultimate what if is the 1992 team. What if the lineup consisted of more than Molitor, Hamilton and bunch of guys who couldn't get on base?

[ecjimg]

".....The pitching depth might have been an short term aberration, but at least they didn't have to deploy Charlie Hayes at first anymore."

 

You mean Kevin woof woof woof Barker! He was starting at 1b

[brewers4eric]

I don't want to argue a meaningless point, but Barker had been demoted a couple of months into that season. Charlie Hayes had been a late signing at the end of spring training, but he was getting regular at bats at both third and first base. Prior to the Sexson trade, they were platooning Hayes and Tyler Houston at first.

 

It seems like I've got a Bob Wickman all star poster from that year in my basement somewhere. They gave it away at the stadium after the trade had gone down and a friend of mine gave it to me. Milwaukee is a 3.5 hour drive for me, but I was at one of Sexson's first games in a Brewer uniform. Jeff D'Amico had his curve ball going against the Rockies and he also hit a home run that day. The crowd cheered every time that Sexson came to the plate.

 

I really loved that 1992 team. The "what if" for me is whether they should have promoted Cal Eldred earlier in the year. The bullpen was deep and while they didn't have much power in the lineup, they had guys like Kevin Seitzer that seemed to hit well in the clutch.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Agreed Briggs. John Jaha's oppo field power was very similar to Mike Piazza's. Just incredible strength in his swing. If he would have had a more healthy career he would have put up some impressive career numbers. Not Piazza-esque, but still pretty dang good.

 

It's nice seeing you contribute Colby. I mean it.