First Base 2014

[monty57]

I think we need to put this to bed. Was Braun terrible fielding or throwing at 3rd? It should be find-out-able.

 

When you are rated the worst third baseman in the history of the game, I don't think it was an either/or situation.

 

My memories are of him running in front of a perfectly positioned JJ Hardy only to get enough glove on the ball to make sure JJ couldn't make the routine play. That seemed to happen about once a game. Of course, there was also the ball seeming to find its way right through him and the bad throws, but to me his ability to make other players' defense worse was his stand-out ability.

 

He is a pretty good outfielder, so as long as that continues, let's just keep him there. Outfield requires some speed to chase down balls, and a fairly strong arm, but doesn't require the snap judgement of the infield, and there is more room to allow for athletic ability to correct mistakes. That seems to suit Braun, as his athleticism was almost a negative for him because of his lack of judgement (he could get to balls he should have just let Hardy take). If he were moved to first base, I would hope the coaches would nail his feet to the ground and tell him not to try to go after any grounders to his right for fear that he would end up running straight across the infield to get a grounder headed for Segura and would forget that he needed to be at first base to field throws. That may or may not be hyperbole :-)

[SoupTown]

Matt Clark

[Outlander]

I'm all for replacing Overbay with Clark but doubt the organization would ever do that.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm all for replacing Overbay with Clark but doubt the organization would ever do that.

 

Especially after he just got one of the biggest hits of the season. Say what you want about his numbers compared to what's expected at the position, but many of Overbay's hits have been timely. He's at the end of solid career. I'm glad he's been able to contribute both in the clubhouse and occasionally on the field. It's more than I expected.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm really not that worried about first base. Reynolds and Overbay haven't been the most productive duo, but some of the other available alternatives would have been worse (Morales, Ike Davis, etc.). It would have been nice if they could have gotten Morneau at the deadline, but he was the only clear upgrade out there. At least I don't have to endure watching Juan Francisco try to play baseball, so I'm thankful for that.

[TURBO]

When does this thread dry up, and the new "First Base 2015" thread begins?

[lcbj68c]

When does this thread dry up, and the new "First Base 2015" thread begins?

 

I've been saying that for a page and half. But it probably won't happpen until the masses give up any notion that it should be anybody but Overbay/Reynolds. Presumably mid-October.

[Outlander]

For 2015 I think they really need to take a long look at a Rogers/Clark platoon where Rogers plays the Reynolds role of playing third every once in a while as well. I believe they could get similar or better production than the Reynolds/Overbay platoon at minimum wage price. I know some don't like older prospects but there are certainly advantages to getting minimum wage players in their prime years, similar to what they might be able to do with Fiers on the pitching side.

[DuWayne Steurer]

My suspicion is Rogers will get a long look in Spring Training, but Doug will probably do something similar to what he did this year, and that's spend another year backfilling the position with veteran garbage on a one year deal.

 

I know, I know, Lyle has a .330 something batting average in the 17 at bats he's had with men in scoring position, and that's great, but that's analytical data, not predictive.

[HiAndTight]

I think we need to put this to bed. Was Braun terrible fielding or throwing at 3rd? It should be find-out-able.

 

 

 

Throwing.....

 

But I STILL don't see how this is even relevant. Does anyone really believe that Corey Hart could have been a good defensive 3rd basemen? Or even guys like Texiera, Howard, Morenau. Does anyone think they could play 3rd base?

 

Playing 3rd has almost nothing to do with him playing first. Two entirely different positions. You get far fewer GB's hit at you hard and you have to make about 1/10th the amount of throws, which was what Braun struggled with primarily.

 

My memories are of him running in front of a perfectly positioned JJ Hardy only to get enough glove on the ball to make sure JJ couldn't make the routine play. That seemed to happen about once a game. Of course, there was also the ball seeming to find its way right through him and the bad throws, but to me his ability to make other players' defense worse was his stand-out ability.

 

That's a simple rule you learn from an early age on as a 3rd basemen. You go after every ball you can get to. Ramirez has done the same thing to Segura a couple times this year including vs the Blue Jays. Segura was set to field the ball, his momentum was moving in the right direction and it would have been an easy play, and Ramirez cut him off and fielded the ball while drifting towards RF.

 

I don't know how Braun made other people worse defensively however. Not even sure how that's possible in baseball.

[adambr2]

Matt Clark now has 13 HR's in 169 AB's in Nashville, hitting .325 with a .993 OPS. I don't care how hitter-friendly or pitcher-friendly the league is, that's impressive.

 

Not saying he needs to be starting, but come on, the guy has paid his dues at the minor league level. Give him a cup of coffee up in Milwaukee, he's earned it.

[Never Outhustled]

Matt Clark now has 13 HR's in 169 AB's in Nashville, hitting .325 with a .993 OPS. I don't care how hitter-friendly or pitcher-friendly the league is, that's impressive.

 

Not saying he needs to be starting, but come on, the guy has paid his dues at the minor league level. Give him a cup of coffee up in Milwaukee, he's earned it.

 

Mark Reynolds has a 540 OPS in August, and a sub-700 OPS for the season. Give Clark a starting oppurtunity, I doubt he would be worse, and could be significantly better.

[JohnBriggs12]

Matt Clark now has 13 HR's in 169 AB's in Nashville, hitting .325 with a .993 OPS. I don't care how hitter-friendly or pitcher-friendly the league is, that's impressive.

 

Not saying he needs to be starting, but come on, the guy has paid his dues at the minor league level. Give him a cup of coffee up in Milwaukee, he's earned it.

 

Mark Reynolds has a 540 OPS in August, and a sub-700 OPS for the season. Give Clark a starting oppurtunity, I doubt he would be worse, and could be significantly better.

 

 

Reynolds is actually making better contact this month (3.92 AB per K) despite the bad numbers so an argument could be made he's hitting in some bad luck. He did have a .799 OPS in July. Overbay's OPS in August is .873.

 

Yes Clark is having a great half season in AAA. But they aren't going to sit both Overbay and Reynolds for a career minor league first baseman with no major league experience in the heat of a pennant race. Clark should and probably will get a long look in spring. He's earned that. He also may have made Hunter Morris expendable. They could add him strictly as bench bat in September by clearing Gindl's 40 man spot. Let's see what happens.

[monty57]

Yes Clark is having a great half season in AAA. But they aren't going to sit both Overbay and Reynolds for a career minor league first baseman with no major league experience in the heat of a pennant race. Clark should and probably will get a long look in spring. He's earned that. He also may have made Hunter Morris expendable. They could add him strictly as bench bat in September by clearing Gindl's 40 man spot. Let's see what happens.

 

Well said Briggs. Barring injury, the Brewers aren't going to sit veterans (struggling or not) for a guy like Clark in the middle of a pennant race. If this were a heralded prospect coming up through the minors, then he might get the call, but not Clark.

 

As to next year, Melvin likes bringing in veterans to fill positions, and "non-top" prospects usually get their shot when that veteran gets injured. If they do well in their opportunity, they win the spot (Lucroy, Davis, Gennett). Therefore, unless he's able to find a star player through trade or free agency, I would guess that Melvin will bring in another Reynolds-type guy to man 1B next year, with Rogers/Clark either getting a bench role or sitting in AAA waiting for someone to hit the DL.

[JohnBriggs12]

Monty's right about Melvin's penchant for filling holes with veterans. Gennett and Davis won their spots with sterling play when they got their chances due to injuries/suspensions. Lucroy got his shot only after veteran Gregg Zaun went down in 2010.

 

That's the only way less heralded minor leaguers have broken through regardless of the minor league numbers. How hard is it? Well a guy in that spot has to be more than just ok. He has to really open eyes. Sean Halton wasn't horrible last year when he came up. He did okay certainly by the standards set by the rest of the chumps who played there in 2013. But okay for a guy in his spot wasn't good enough and he was never really in the plans for this year.

[reillymcshane]

Older guys hitting in the PCL is not unusual. And those guys rarely suddenly become quality big leaguers.

 

Let's go back a few years - 2010. There were 26 players with a .900+ OPS (minimum of 143 plate appearances). Only five of those players were under 25 (and most have become productive major leaguers - Buster Posey, Logan Morrison, Arencibia, Trumbo and Chris Davis). The rest of the players were 25 and older. Only 3 of the remaining 21 guys have become decent big leaguers (Allen Craig, Chris Johnson and Alex Gordan).

 

It doesn't mean Clark won't succeed, but it just shows you how hard the transition to the big leagues can be.

 

Perhaps some of the difficulty is the bias against older guys. The clubs say, "The guys 27, he should be tearing up AAA."

 

Again, it doesn't mean that given the chance he wouldn't succeed, but the track record on guys like Clark is not good.

[Never Outhustled]

Monty's right about Melvin's penchant for filling holes with veterans. Gennett and Davis won their spots with sterling play when they got their chances due to injuries/suspensions. Lucroy got his shot only after veteran Gregg Zaun went down in 2010.

 

That's the only way less heralded minor leaguers have broken through regardless of the minor league numbers. How hard is it? Well a guy in that spot has to be more than just ok. He has to really open eyes. Sean Halton wasn't horrible last year when he came up. He did okay certainly by the standards set by the rest of the chumps who played there in 2013. But okay for a guy in his spot wasn't good enough and he was never really in the plans for this year.

 

Sean Halton's best minor league season above rookie ball was an 852 OPS. Matt Clarks career OPS is 863. These 2 players don't compare. Jason Rogers still might be the best of the bunch though.

[JohnBriggs12]

Monty's right about Melvin's penchant for filling holes with veterans. Gennett and Davis won their spots with sterling play when they got their chances due to injuries/suspensions. Lucroy got his shot only after veteran Gregg Zaun went down in 2010.

 

That's the only way less heralded minor leaguers have broken through regardless of the minor league numbers. How hard is it? Well a guy in that spot has to be more than just ok. He has to really open eyes. Sean Halton wasn't horrible last year when he came up. He did okay certainly by the standards set by the rest of the chumps who played there in 2013. But okay for a guy in his spot wasn't good enough and he was never really in the plans for this year.

 

Sean Halton's best minor league season above rookie ball was an 852 OPS. Matt Clarks career OPS is 863. These 2 players don't compare. Jason Rogers still might be the best of the bunch though.

 

I think if Halton had over 1,000 AB's playing for Tucson and a half a year in the California League, they'd be pretty comparable. Notice you don't mention that the .852 was at AAA. That's beside the point though. The point is that unless you are a highly touted high draft pick like the Fielders, Weeks, Brauns of the world, when you get your shot, you have to perform at a very high level immediately to ever become an everyday player. If you don't, they'll find a veteran to replace you quickly. Clark started this year at AA at age 27. That says volumes. If and when he gets a shot, he's no different than a Halton. He'll have to produce from day 1 or he'll be back toiling in the minors rather quickly.

 

Taking nothing away from what Clark has done at Nashville this year, but it's a two month sample.

[WV Brew]

Apparently, the Brewers put in a claim for Justin Morneau but it was rejected.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24684403/brewers-won-morneau-claim-and-made-offer-but-hes-staying-in-colorado

[monty57]

Sean Halton's best minor league season above rookie ball was an 852 OPS. Matt Clarks career OPS is 863. These 2 players don't compare. Jason Rogers still might be the best of the bunch though.

 

Who was the last guy who wasn't widely considered a top prospect in baseball (our top guy and high on the national lists) who was named the opening day starter after a good year in AAA?

 

I think Prince Fielder was the last guy who was named opening day starter without a lot of MLB time. They signed a couple of vets ahead of Braun, but that could've been a Super Two thing. Hardy was handed SS after an injury-shortened year in AAA. Those were highly-touted prospects and we were in a position as a franchise where we wanted to showcase the talent coming up.

 

Guys like Davis, Lucroy and Gennett had to make the most of injuries/suspensions to the veterans Melvin signed ahead of them. Players like Clark and Rogers seem to fall into this category (if they're even that highly-regarded). I think this offseason will center around what happens with Ramirez and (to a lesser extent) K-Rod. If Ramirez returns, then I don't see anything too exciting happening. Melvin will see what's out there in trade, but will probably settle with another signing of a lesser FA veteran to cover first base. If Ramirez leaves, then I think Melvin/Attanasio will feel the need to do something big, and will go after someone like Sandoval, or two lesser "name" players to play the corners (the theory that two 6's are greater than one 8 and one 3).

 

Either way, as long as we don't feel the need to have two 1B-only and two 2B-only players on the roster I think Rogers has a good shot at making the MLB team as the backup corner IF. A bench of Maldonado, Rogers (backup 1B/3B), a backup SS/2B, and two backup OF is much more "normal" than what we've had this season.

[monty57]

Apparently, the Brewers put in a claim for Justin Morneau but it was rejected.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24684403/brewers-won-morneau-claim-and-made-offer-but-hes-staying-in-colorado

 

That's too bad. Would've been a great addition. Unfortunately, we don't have too much to offer, as we aren't giving up an MLB player and our best prospects are still getting their feet wet at the lowest levels.

 

My guess is that Colorado demanded Nelson, Taylor and someone else, and Melvin wouldn't go that high.

[SRB]

I was debating whether he warrants a separate thread, but on Friday there is going to be a showcase of a couple Cuban defectors including Yozzen Cuesta (aka Jozzen Cuesta), who is a 25-year-old (or younger? seeing conflicting ages given) 1B and might be of interest to the Brewers. I can't find any information on him other than the fact that he is 6'2" 220 lb and has "some power." The lack of internet buzz doesn't mean he's a non-prospect though - just look at the Yasiel Puig signing. Considering the Brewers were one of the top bidders on Jose Abreau, I'm hoping they will at least be scouting Cuesta. Getting a young 1B with upside would be huge given the pretty dismal free agent market.

[Yaz]

RATS!!!! Still have until Sunday to go back at those rascally Rockies and get our first baseman of destiny!

 

Yes I am hanging by a very thin strand right now.

 

My guess is the Rockies wanted pitching, and more pitching and let's see more pitching for Morneau. Get er done Doug!

[nate82]

RATS!!!! Still have until Sunday to go back at those rascally Rockies and get our first baseman of destiny!

 

Yes I am hanging by a very thin strand right now.

 

My guess is the Rockies wanted pitching, and more pitching and let's see more pitching for Morneau. Get er done Doug!

 

No one can trade for Morneau now until the off season as he has been pulled back from waivers. The Brewers do not have until Sunday to get Morneau.

[Yaz]

Yeah I read that over in the Major League topic after I posted here. It really is disappointing. The fact that Morneau dropped to the Brewers on the waiver claim was a miracle in itself.

 

I was all for the rental of Morneau for a few months as I realize his age is getting up there. Sigh. I just knew he would be a good fit in the lineup when I saw him back in June. Too bad.