First Base 2014

[BuckyBrewer61]

 

Billy Butler anyone?

 

I know very little about Butler other than what I just looked up on baseball-reference, but he seems like a great buy-low candidate. He's had a crap year, but 4 of the past 5 years had an OPS over .800 (.787 last year). Since June 1st he's got a line of .283/.335/.417/.752, though has fallen off a bit again in July. If he get's hot again he also has a club option for 2015, though it's pricey at 12.5M with just a 1M buyout if he continues to sputter.

 

Anyone have anything more informed to say about him than I do?

[DR28]

Damnit... So Reynolds & Overbay it is huh.

[AZBrewCrew]

I still would have liked Morneau at a minimum

[bensheeps]

I'm still holding out hope that Carp will be moved/released after the BoSox see all the moving pieces they now have acquired.

[pacopete4]

Is it possible that we can still make a trade after putting in a waiver claim on Morneau if he is subject to it from the Rockies?

[DR28]

Yes if the Rockies put Morneau on waivers, Brewers can claim him and try to work out a trade.

[AZBrewCrew]

As long as a team with a worse record doesnt claim him first

[TooLiveBrew]

Pretty inexcusable for me to see this club not add a bat at 1B. Parra's a solid add, but I'm far from happy.

[Hammer]

I'm with you TLB. When is the last time the Brewers had this legitimate of a shot to go deep into the playoffs? They really did need to make a move to solidify 1B. Sitting back with what you have only gets you so far...

[Warning Track Power]

Agreed TLB. This team, while not complete, is rock solid in the following offensive areas and really couldn't improve much without hurting themselves somewhere else:

 

C: Lucroy, Maldonado

OF: Braun, Gomez, Davis, Parra

2B: Gennett

SS: Segura

3B: Ramirez

 

If Reynolds were our 1B/3B/PH and a backup to say Morneau or Napoli, and we had acquired say Darwin Barney to backup at SS and 2B, I would love this team. Hopefully the Brewers have a waiver deal in them to continue to add the necessary depth for a playoff run.

[TooLiveBrew]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

[DR28]

I've heard that Corey might be the odd man out when Michael Saunders comes off the DL.

[logan82]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

Dating all the way back to early last season. Once Hart was down for the year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

Dating all the way back to early last season. Once Hart was down for the year.

 

 

Using ONLY at bats played by players who were playing AT 1st base (not 1st basemen being used as PH'ers, or playing other positions in the field), since the start of the 2013 season, the Brewers 1st basemen have put up an aggregate slash line of .214/.275/.375/.650

 

That's not bad. That's horrendous.

[fondybrewfan]

But basically every single 1st basemen that Brewers showed interest in last year has been a steaming pile of poo there. There was nothing out there unless Melvin traded or trades significant assets. The 1st base FA list for this coming offseason isn't any better. I am guessing someone on the Brewers will have to move to 1st or they will sign a FA 3B or OF and move them to first. There doesn't appear to be an answer in the near future in the minors either.

[DuWayne Steurer]

But basically every single 1st basemen that Brewers showed interest in last year has been a steaming pile of poo there. There was nothing out there unless Melvin traded or trades significant assets. The 1st base FA list for this coming offseason isn't any better. I am guessing someone on the Brewers will have to move to 1st or they will sign a FA 3B or OF and move them to first. There doesn't appear to be an answer in the near future in the minors either.

 

 

Oh, I'm not saying we had a great big pile of shining diamonds to choose from, but moreso that maybe the situation we're in may make Doug (or already should have) forced him to think outside the box to man the 1st base position. I don't really want to go another year manning what's supposed to be a premium offensive position with crap.

[Hammer]

Chase Headley and Pablo Sandoval are both among the 3B free agent crop. Add one of them, move Ramirez to 1B?

 

 

Edit: also - can I now start a First Base 2015 thread?

[TooLiveBrew]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

Dating all the way back to early last season. Once Hart was down for the year.

 

 

Using ONLY at bats played by players who were playing AT 1st base (not 1st basemen being used as PH'ers, or playing other positions in the field), since the start of the 2013 season, the Brewers 1st basemen have put up an aggregate slash line of .214/.275/.375/.650

 

That's not bad. That's horrendous.

And for a frame of reference, the aggregate line posted by all who've played 1B in the NL this season is roughly .780

[Yaz]

All I can say is am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED the Brewers didn't get Justin Morneau. I saw he would be a perfect fit with this team when they were rolling in June. The Overbay/Reynolds platoon is frustrating as they are almost an automatic out when they come to the plate. And as we have seen for the past month it's not the pitching that is the problem. I knew it would be hard to replace Fielder, but this is ridiculous.

[logan82]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

Dating all the way back to early last season. Once Hart was down for the year.

 

 

Using ONLY at bats played by players who were playing AT 1st base (not 1st basemen being used as PH'ers, or playing other positions in the field), since the start of the 2013 season, the Brewers 1st basemen have put up an aggregate slash line of .214/.275/.375/.650

 

That's not bad. That's horrendous.

I give him a small pass for 2013 because we didn't know Hart was out for the year. Then again, Yuni. Pass revoked. Sure the backup to the backup to the backup plan wasn't available but that was well over a year ago and still no improvement. Add in one possible upside option was let go and this is a huge failure.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think most of us would love to have Morneau. While I don't remember reading much rumors-wise connecting the Brewers and Morneau we really don't know how much of an effort Melvin made to get him. Reading through Rockies rumors though I think the reason Morneau wasn't traded is because the Rockies have no clue what they are doing. They think they can win and don't want to trade Tulo or Gonzalez. They don't want to trade a 40+ year old LaTroy Hawkins because they think he will help next year. They won't trade an overpaid and injured Brett Anderson or Jorge de la Rosa. I would guess Colorado is asking for an outrageous return for Morneau and that's why no one got him.

[HiAndTight]

Pretty inexcusable for me to see this club not add a bat at 1B. Parra's a solid add, but I'm far from happy.

 

 

Inexcusable, huh? This is what gets me. You have no idea what was being asked for some of these players. Now I suppose Melvin could be lying, but he literally came out and said that he was told Morneau was NOT available.

He said he inquired about several other 1st basemen and was frustrated that he wasn't able to make a deal. He did say there were 4 minor leaguers who were considered untouchable(I would assume he meant young players and included Nelson). My guess is those players were Arcia, C oulter, Taylor and Nelson.

 

But it's inexcusable that he didn't acquire a player he was told was not available.

 

Going back to last off-season Melvin did try to aqcuire Loney. Loney chose to sign with Tampa Bay instead.

 

I suppose when he was told that Morneau wasn't available, he could have offered up the type of pitchers that Col targets, heavy GB pitchers. But Jungman wasn't getting it done and I doubt anyone would have been happy with Peralta or Nelson+ for Morneau.

 

He tried. Melvin, who normally keeps things very close to the vest said his biggest frustration was his inability and teams unwillingness to trade 1st basemen.

 

So calling it "inexcusable," is based on ignorance. We're always ignorant as to how these conversations actually go, but in this case Melvin pretty much laid it out for us. There seems to be this thought process that if we believe a team is out of it, they are automatically going to trade a player. That if we want to sign a player, or want him to waive a no-trade clause, he'll just do it. It takes two sides and it certainly sounds like not only is Melvin not done having talked about waiver deal trades, but that HE made the exchange. If I have two cars and you have one, but the price I'm asking for that car is absurd, or I simply refuse to sell it to you, is it "inexcusable," that you weren't able to buy it?

[HiAndTight]

There is going to be at least one huge, potentially season-defining moment down the stretch where Overbay is going to have to be the one at the plate. I just hate how passive this club was about 1B dating back to all the way in the offseason.

 

 

 

Passive, huh?

 

Offered Jose Abreu 6 years and 60+ million. He chose to sign in Chicago.

Weren't willing to give a guy like Morneau a multi year deal for obvious reasons. He played well, and was told he was unavailable.

Tried to trade for Ike Davis....Mets wanted Thornburg. Nobody would have been happy with that and Davis has been bad.

Texas and Seattle were unwilling to trade with the Brewers.

Again, Loney chose returning to Tampa and the only way the Brewers could have signed him was to overpay him.

 

That's not passive, that's an absurd lack of options. Just the 60+ million dollar offer made to Abreu contradicts any suggestions they were "passive."

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/justin-morneau

 

So explain to me how given what we know, the Brewers were passive? I'd argue they were unusually aggressive, and almost all the players people on this board wanted have struggled mightily.

[HiAndTight]

If you completely buy into that metric and the value placed upon it. I read one article that argued that Jose Molina in his job as a part time catcher has been more valuable just by framing pitches over the last two years that Stanton.

 

I think the pendulum has swung to the point where I can't really value the "runs saved," from Lucroy from pitch framing.

 

I'm curious -- do you have a reason for dismissing the pitch framing data? There's plenty I don't know, so maybe I'm just a rube here. But I understand how they got the data, and the methodology seems sound to me. It's also shown some consistency over seasons; Lucroy isn't just some one-year pitch-framing wonder. On top of all that, the data seem to correspond with what scouts and observers say about good catching form: stay still, minimize movement of the target, etc.

 

Maybe there's more to your skepticism, but you seem to be saying that you dismiss the pitch-framing stuff just because it's new and counter-intuitive. I think those are good reasons to review a claim skeptically, but as far as I can tell, this one holds up pretty well under review.

 

 

Hardly. Again, when metrics show that Jose Molina's pitch framing ability has been more valuable than Mike Stanton over the past two years, I find that absurd.

 

Lucroy DOES do well in this area. I'm simply not willing to assign the value to it that others have.

 

This from baseball prospectus;

 

 

Still, consider the implications. Giancarlo Stanton, one of the most coveted young players in the game, was worth as much4 (in terms of Wins Above Replacement) over the past two seasons as Molina’s framing alone was worth in a part-time role over the past five-plus, yet Molina’s value, unlike Stanton’s, is largely overlooked.

 

So no, it's not because it's new, it's because I don't believe it's an exaggerated metric. Has Jose Molina's pitch framing ALONE really been worth 10 WAR and 111 runs saved just from pitch framing over 350 or so starts? Basically saying he's been a more valuable player than Giancarlo Stanton?

[TooLiveBrew]

So explain to me how given what we know, the Brewers were passive? I'd argue they were unusually aggressive, and almost all the players people on this board wanted have struggled mightily.

I felt like they were passive because they weren't able (yet) to improve on a .644 OPSing Overbay -- it shouldn't be hard to do, but I guess I'm just not giving enough merit to how weak the market is at 1B.