First Base 2014

[JohnBriggs12]

What I find frustrating is the fact that we are even considering, even for 1 second, guys like Smoak, Loney, Carp, Young, Ike Davis, insert players name here who is no better than what we have on hand...

 

Spending draft picks and money on average at best players just doesn't do it for me...

 

1B is a black hole in our line-up, was last year, and it is shaping up like it will be the same this year.

 

3B in our near future looks the same.

 

We are talking about 2 offensive producing positions that we have no answer for.

 

 

Even the Michael Young of last year (.279/.335/.395) would not be a "black hole". True that's not the typical production you get out of that position. But Lucroy supplies 1B type production in the catcher's spot and what Young would be likely to produce would be perfectly fine for a catcher and wouldn't be all that bad for a 3B. Last year they went through Alex Gonzalez and his .194/.219/.226 at 1B, Yuni (.194/.220/.343 at 1B) and Francisco (.215/.294/.455 at 1B). Those 3 totaled 476 plate appearances while playing 1st. Now that's a black hole. Not only were they bad, all 3 saw significant time at 3B when Ramirez is out.

 

Young wouldn't preclude them using a Morris or a Halton there if Young were needed more at 3B.

[Mr Southpaw]

Just let the kids play.

[nate82]

I wonder if a bullpen arm for Cameron Seitzer (yes he is the son of Kevin Seitzer) from the Rays would be enough. He probably isn't ready for the majors this year but he could be ready by the middle of the year or the latest next season. He hasn't really put up big numbers in the minors yet but I believe he would be a very good buy low option for the Brewers. If it only takes someone like Drew Gagnon or David Goforth I would do it but not anything higher than that. The most I would give up to get him would be either Hellweg but that would be pushing it though I don't believe Hellweg will make it as a started and would be someone the Rays would be looking at as a reliever.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=seitze000cam

 

Seitzer really didn't have a good year last year but his plate discipline is rated as being advanced and his bat speed is rated between above average to a plus. Power wise he looks to be about the same as Loney though being 6'5" and 200+lbs doesn't really make much sense as he should have more power in his bat than he does. Maybe there is something in his swing that needs to be looked at so he gets more power.

[TURBO]

Not sure we need another minor league 1B to add to our logjam...

[brewmann04]

I would not mind our guys currently on the roster going for the 1st base job,it not like we are going anywhere next season.But there are big Issues at 3rd also in the near future.I would think if the Brewers get out of it early it might be the time to move some Veterans for Prospects particulary at 3rd and young arms.

[JohnBriggs12]

Not sure we need another minor league 1B to add to our logjam...

 

How about Tyler Colvin on a minor league deal? He''s only 2 years removed from an .858 OPS in the major leagues. He's primarily an OF but he does have significant experience at 1B so even if he doesn't make the team he could play of in Nashville. He's been good in even years and awful in odd years.

[trwi7]

Colvin is an awful hitter and his 2012 season was because of Coors Field.

[brewcrewdue80]

I don't know trwi. What of his 2010 Chicago Cubs season? is 20HRs and .800+OPS due to Coors?

 

I'd easily suggest he's .150 OPS better than Gonzalez or Yuni who were are add-ons late ST last year. I mean, he seems pretty much everything we have already in Sean Halton only he bats from the Left side. He at least has 1b experience. Platoon splits would be .781/.640 RH/LH He's had success in Milwaukee. For the most part, he looks like a safer LH bat than Juan Fran and he's better defensively at 1b than Juan.

[JohnBriggs12]

Colvin had some back issues last year that contributed to his bad year. If healthy, he's certainly worthy of a flier on a minor league deal. Yeah Coors helped his splits, but his road splits in 2012 were affected by playing a lot of games in the NL West pitcher's parks. A healthy Colvin (and that's an if) is certainly in the class of Ike Davis.

[monty57]

Good call, Briggs. IIRC, he's the guy who got impaled by a bat in a freak play when he was with the Cubs, and couldn't put it together after that, leading to his poor final season with the Cubs. When healthy, he seems to be a pretty good player, so if he is healthy now, he could be a nice pick-up. Seems very low-risk / high reward.

[fondybrewfan]

Aren't Colvin and Gamel basically the same guy. Both had great MILB numbers and primarily due to injuries never took off in the bigs. I would prefer Gamel to Colvin.

[brewcrewdue80]

Fondy, you would take someone who's on bad knees over someone who's knees are healthy? Look over all sports, knee injuries ruin careers and they often reinjure very easily. I have doubts Gamel will ever play 120 games in a season again even if he posted .850OPS numbers upon return. There's just that much risk of reinjury or plain having to rest knees having sore days with them.

Something that was mentioned with Hart that he'd have to rest on night to day games potentially wiping out 30 games alone never mind a 15day dl stint or having to rest a night game.

 

Colvin certainly is a better option than Sea Bass was. And he's not limited to 1 position at least.

[RockCoCougars]

It's really sad that things have gotten to the point that we are talking about old guys with no power and no real experience at first and/or a bunch of AAAA guys at best. I think that Melvin was banking on Hart coming back and didn't have any backup plan in place. Hopefully, he can pull of some Carlos Lee type deal out of the blue, or I think that they are really going to regret not matching the offer for Hart. All indications are that they are really scaling back the payroll this season in the wake of the Lohse/Ramirez signings ($27 million bucks tied up with those two).

[umpref]

With what's left we need to just go with what we have for now unless we catch lightning in a bottle with reamaining 1B left. I wouldn't have signed Hart with the injury he had for that money. (See Grady Sizemore).

[nate82]

Not sure we need another minor league 1B to add to our logjam...

 

It is not really a logjam as the Brewers could put Morris along with Halton in the majors and if any of them struggle you just move them back to the minors and bring up the next person which in this case would be Seitzer. Basically just throwing something at the wall and seeing which one sticks.

 

 

The only other option is to put Ramirez at 1B which might end up happening if Halton, Morris, etc. do not play well in spring training.

[SRB]

Aren't Colvin and Gamel basically the same guy. Both had great MILB numbers and primarily due to injuries never took off in the bigs. I would prefer Gamel to Colvin.

Setting aside the fact that Gamel is no longer in the Brewers organization, Gamel cannot hit MLB pitching. Never has and likely never will. Colvin at least has some measure of success in his past.

[monty57]

It's really sad that things have gotten to the point that we are talking about old guys with no power and no real experience at first and/or a bunch of AAAA guys at best. I think that Melvin was banking on Hart coming back and didn't have any backup plan in place. Hopefully, he can pull of some Carlos Lee type deal out of the blue, or I think that they are really going to regret not matching the offer for Hart. All indications are that they are really scaling back the payroll this season in the wake of the Lohse/Ramirez signings ($27 million bucks tied up with those two).

 

I don't really think he was banking on Hart coming back. The financial situation and lack of impact talent on the farm has been known for quite a while, and the scaling back of payroll was supposed to start last season, but Attanasio panicked when ticket sales were low and signed Lohse over Melvin's objections.

 

I look at this as a "backdoor rebuild." Brewer brass fears that too much "selling" would lead to a mass exodus of fans, and it could take years to build back the fan trust. Therefore, they're trying to put enough talent on the roster that they can still sell some tickets, while allowing some contracts to fall off the books and allowing some of their young guys to get MLB playing time to see what they've got. By this time next year, we should have a lot less money committed to a handful of players, so there will be the opportunity to add talent if it makes sense. Unfortunately, without any star-power on the farm, it will be a lot harder for this strategy to be successful, and I just hope they don't once again panic and spend all the Weeks/Ramirez money on another past-their-prime, slightly-above-average free agent vet next year.

 

Any rebuild is tough. This one was pretty easy to see coming. I just hope it isn't as long a cycle as I fear it could be. If some of Davis, Peralta, Segura, Morris, Halton, Gennett, Thornburg, Nelson, etc can prove to be good MLB players, it will help a lot, and that is why we need to let the young kids get as much PT as possible this year (and probably the next few) to see what we've got before we commit to contracts that will likely only extend the cycle.

[DR28]

Mets, Brewers still talking about Ike Davis...

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/mets-still-talking-ike-davis-with-brewers-os-pirates.html

 

I still believe our Opening Day 1B will be Ike Davis.

[Outlander]

I am starting to believe that as well. Have not been too excited about Davis but I have come to accept that the Brewers are not likely to contend in 2014 so if Davis somehow figures it all out in 2014 similar to Gomez in 2013 then they have a chance at competing, if he still stinks then they are no worse off. Based on minor league numbers still not convinced that Thornburg will amount to much so it might be a case of selling high on him and buying low on Davis.

[fondybrewfan]

If Doug really wanted Davis he could have already acquired him unles the Mets are still being dumb and asking for Thornburg. I think he is still trying to find some alternatives and Davis is a fall back option in late January or February if Doug can't come up with something better. My feeling is that the starting 1st basemen in 2014 will still be someone that no one has yet discussed. Melvin has pulled off trades that no one had any idea of before.

[monty57]

From the linked article, the Mets are looking at a better prospect from the Orioles. It takes two to tango, and it is possible that Melvin has already offered Thornburg and is waiting to see if the Mets accept the offer, which would likely happen only if the Orioles reject the offer from the Mets.

 

I don't know what to think of Davis, as before last season he was seen as an up-and-coming-star, but really stunk it up in 2013. He could be a steal, or he could be a bust, and it will cost $3.5MM plus a good prospect to find out what you get.

[trwi7]

He stunk it up in 2012 too, at least the 1st half of 2012.

[monty57]

2012 OPS: April .550, May .496, June .926, July .794, August .887, Sept .859, Oct 1.179

 

vs LHP 2012 .560 / 2013 .406

vs RHP 2012 .868 / 2013 .727

 

Again, I don't know what to make of him, but he could at least make a decent guy for the big side of a 1B platoon. I don't know that I'd give up Thornburg and have to pay him $3.5MM for that role, but I could definitely see it happening. He's still in arby, and has three years of "control" left.

 

Weigh the option: Give up Thornburg and pay Davis $3.5MM or hold onto Thornburg, go with Francisco, and save $3MM dollars.

 

For point of reference, Thornburg's 2013: 18 G, 7 GS, 3W-1L, 66.2 IP, 26BB / 48K, 1.19 WHIP, 2.03 ERA

Career: 26 G, 10 GS, 3W-1L, 88.2 IP, 33 BB, 68 K, 1.24 WHIP, 2.64 ERA

 

Five years of "control" (two years of pre-arby) remaining.

[fondybrewfan]

I would still never part with Thornburg. I would give up Pena or Hellweg; but Thornburg showed too much potential in late 2013 to trade him from Ike Davis. Its not like Thornburg is a soft tossing finesse pitcher either; he has legitimate stuff

[TigerUppercut]

5 years of team control left for TT but the list of 6'00" and under starters that don't break down in that time is very, very short. TT showed us something last year for sure, but in the grand scheme of things, how much better was he than Fiers the year before? Seems like fools gold to me. Sell.