Francisco Cervelli admits PED use

[jerichoholicninja]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/york-yankees-catcher-francisco-cervelli-comes-clean-few-161400506--mlb.html

 

Cervelli admitted going to the now-closed Biogenesis anti-aging clinic in Miami. He has served his 50-game suspension without appeal after it was announced he was one of a dozen players slapped with the first-time user penalty on Aug. 5.

 

Based on the lack of media outrage no one seems to care. Apparently his PED use isn't tainting the record book and corrupting impressionable youth.

[JimH5]

Clean or dirty, Francisco Cervelli has made no impression on my life.

[Outlander]

I heard his name before but have no idea what team he even plays for.

[BruisedCrew]

Fans also lose their indignation about a player who uses PEDs and lies about it when that player helps their team win.

 

Witness Tiger fans welcoming Jhonny Peralta with open arms and cheering wildly when he produces big hits for them.

 

I suspect that there will be plenty of teams out there who will be willing to put their principles aside when Peralta hits the free agent market.

[JimH5]

I guess I'm coming to terms on that myself as we look forward to Ryan Braun's return in 2014.

 

He cheated, he lied, and he lied and he lied some more. He embarrassed himself and my favorite team.

 

But he paid his penalty, and now I have to consider how much I'm willing to forgive.

 

Maybe I'll start with a clean slate, and maybe I won't. We'll see.

[rondoman]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/york-yankees-catcher-francisco-cervelli-comes-clean-few-161400506--mlb.html

 

Cervelli admitted going to the now-closed Biogenesis anti-aging clinic in Miami. He has served his 50-game suspension without appeal after it was announced he was one of a dozen players slapped with the first-time user penalty on Aug. 5.

 

Based on the lack of media outrage no one seems to care. Apparently his PED use isn't tainting the record book and corrupting impressionable youth.

 

Yea I know Cervelli and all his adamant denials with press conferences and such.

 

Plus being a former MVP and one of the best players in the game.

 

Oh, wait...

[BruisedCrew]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/york-yankees-catcher-francisco-cervelli-comes-clean-few-161400506--mlb.html

 

Cervelli admitted going to the now-closed Biogenesis anti-aging clinic in Miami. He has served his 50-game suspension without appeal after it was announced he was one of a dozen players slapped with the first-time user penalty on Aug. 5.

 

Based on the lack of media outrage no one seems to care. Apparently his PED use isn't tainting the record book and corrupting impressionable youth.

 

Yea I know Cervelli and all his adamant denials with press conferences and such.

 

Plus being a former MVP and one of the best players in the game.

 

Oh, wait...

 

He didn't have to address the leak of what was supposed to be confidential information either.

 

But, I get that some people's indignation is a function of how much ESPN focuses on the issue.

 

How much do people remember or care about Melky Cabrera and his phony website coverup attempt?

 

And how about Yankee fans cheering for Rodriguez as he tried to help them push into the playoffs?

[BruisedCrew]

I guess I'm coming to terms on that myself as we look forward to Ryan Braun's return in 2014.

 

He cheated, he lied, and he lied and he lied some more. He embarrassed himself and my favorite team.

 

But he paid his penalty, and now I have to consider how much I'm willing to forgive.

 

Maybe I'll start with a clean slate, and maybe I won't. We'll see.

 

I don't think we have to forgive, forget, or start with a clean slate. It's just a matter of moving on.

[JimH5]

I guess I'm coming to terms on that myself as we look forward to Ryan Braun's return in 2014.

 

He cheated, he lied, and he lied and he lied some more. He embarrassed himself and my favorite team.

 

But he paid his penalty, and now I have to consider how much I'm willing to forgive.

 

Maybe I'll start with a clean slate, and maybe I won't. We'll see.

 

I don't think we have to forgive, forget, or start with a clean slate. It's just a matter of moving on.

 

 

It's probably better to move on. . .and it's certainly more fun.

 

But I have a lingering bitterness that might still be there in April.

[BruisedCrew]

I guess I'm coming to terms on that myself as we look forward to Ryan Braun's return in 2014.

 

He cheated, he lied, and he lied and he lied some more. He embarrassed himself and my favorite team.

 

But he paid his penalty, and now I have to consider how much I'm willing to forgive.

 

Maybe I'll start with a clean slate, and maybe I won't. We'll see.

 

I don't think we have to forgive, forget, or start with a clean slate. It's just a matter of moving on.

 

 

It's probably better to move on. . .and it's certainly more fun.

 

But I have a lingering bitterness that might still be there in April.

 

I think that will be true for the vast majority of Brewer fans, including me. But, time does heal a lot of wounds. Just ask Tiger Woods.

[Patrick425]

I think that will be true for the vast majority of Brewer fans, including me. But, time does heal a lot of wounds. Just ask Tiger Woods.

 

Yeah, the difference with Tiger Woods is that his "scandal" involved all personal matters and had nothing to do with breaking the rules of golf (although some have accused him of bending the rules a few times this year )

 

Edit: Oh...and he also didn't hold a press conference where he vehemently denied everything.

 

What I think some people fail to see is that there is a difference between issuing a small statement denying accusations and holding a press conference where you lie and throw people under the bus after you were lucky enough to beat the system on a technicality (and yes...it was a technicality).

 

Also...as a long term 20 game season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for my call from Braun. I'm beginning to wonder how many calls he made and if he called just enough people in order to get the story out there.

[TooLiveBrew]

Also...as a long term 20 game season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for my call from Braun. I'm beginning to wonder how many calls he made and if he called just enough people in order to get the story out there.

Did you (or others) actually expect him to call every single iteration of season ticketholder? I assumed he would only be calling full-season ticketholders or the bigger spenders out of full-season ticketholders.

[Patrick425]

Also...as a long term 20 game season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for my call from Braun. I'm beginning to wonder how many calls he made and if he called just enough people in order to get the story out there.

Did you (or others) actually expect him to call every single iteration of season ticketholder? I assumed he would only be calling full-season ticketholders or the bigger spenders out of full-season ticketholders.

 

 

That's what I originally expected as well, but then I heard reports of 20 game season ticket holders being called as well (some who posted on this site) and "unofficial" confirmation that he was calling all season ticket holders of 20 games or more. I'm sure if I felt like digging around on the site, I could find posts and links to articles that talk about this.

[torts]

are you REALLY going to be that upset if he doesnt call you? does it really even matter?

[BruisedCrew]

I think that will be true for the vast majority of Brewer fans, including me. But, time does heal a lot of wounds. Just ask Tiger Woods.

 

Yeah, the difference with Tiger Woods is that his "scandal" involved all personal matters and had nothing to do with breaking the rules of golf (although some have accused him of bending the rules a few times this year )

 

Edit: Oh...and he also didn't hold a press conference where he vehemently denied everything.

 

What I think some people fail to see is that there is a difference between issuing a small statement denying accusations and holding a press conference where you lie and throw people under the bus after you were lucky enough to beat the system on a technicality (and yes...it was a technicality).

 

Also...as a long term 20 game season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for my call from Braun. I'm beginning to wonder how many calls he made and if he called just enough people in order to get the story out there.

 

I do see the distinctions between Braun's situation and the situations involving other professional athletes who cheated and/or lied. But, for the most part, when you look ahead several months and years, in my opinion they become what lawyers call "a distinction without a difference".

 

Braun's case was unique because of the leak of his positive drug test. He HAD to have some kind of press conference to address that, and he had to offer something in the nature of an explanation as to how he could have tested positive. Since his successful appeal was based on how his sample was handled, it was inevitable that that would focus on the collector and the collection process. Without knowing exactly what evidence was presented at Braun's hearing, and how the collector appeared as a witness, it is very possible that the hearing DID raise questions about what exactly the collector did and what his motives were. There were reports at the time that the collector was a terrible witness, did not look anyone in the eye, and had trouble answering even the most simple and direct questions.

 

But, my main point is that, ultimately, none of this will make a difference. Although Braun's circumstances are a lot different in many ways than those of Tiger Woods, Mantei Te'o, and others, they all have one important thing in common. That is that for some period of time, their indiscretions subjected them to a torrent of media censure and ridicule. But, in today's world, the media and the bloodthirsty masses eventually move on to something else and today's pariah becomes, literally, yesterday's news.

 

There are going to be some people who are going to try to hang on to the hate as long as possible, and will justify it by telling themselves that Braun's case is different than everyone else's and that he is a more despicable human being than Tiger Woods, Melky Cabrera, Jhonny Peralta, Nelson Cruz, Barry Bonds, Andy Pettite, etc. But, in the end, the vast, vast majority of people will get over it and will react to Braun the same way they do other athletes. In other words, if he produces, fans will love it (if not him) and if he doesn't produce, they will reject him.

[Patrick425]

are you REALLY going to be that upset if he doesnt call you? does it really even matter?

 

No, I'm not going to be personally upset if he doesn't call me and, as usual, you missed the point of my post.

[JohnBriggs12]

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

[jerichoholicninja]

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

 

$$$

 

Everyone knows and understands that.

[BruisedCrew]

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

 

This comment really fascinates me because it highlights how different people have different standards for what is going to upset them, and what they consider despicable conduct.

 

Although it is on a much less public stage, I would guess that a lot of us who have worked in large corporations or attended competitive schools have witnessed first hand what people will do to advance themselves, including pointing fingers at others or stepping over them, or doing whatever else it might take to advance or protect their careers. Essentially that's what athletes do when they take PEDs to gain a competitive advantage.

 

We probably also all know people who have cheated on their spouses and developed elaborate lies to cover their tracks.

 

I guess we all have to decide for ourselves what conduct we find more reprehensible, but cheating on the people closest to us and hurting them deeply and personally ranks pretty high on my list.

 

Regardless of where we rank someone's conduct on the reprehensibility scale, we also have to decide how we're going to let that conduct affect us going forward. If you're attitude is "I'm never going to another Brewer game as long as that lying, cheating scumbag is on the team", that's your right. If you want to boo as loudly as you can every time Braun appears on the field for the next several years, that's your right too (although you will probably find out quickly that the people sitting near you will think that you're a bigger jerk than Braun is). Or, if you want to find another team to root for (one that is made up entirely of players with impeccable moral character who have never taken PEDs) you can do that too. Or, you can stop paying attention to baseball and all professional or major college sports entirely.

 

My expectation is that over 99% of the population will eventually get over this and go back to following baseball they way they did before Braun and Biogenesis came along. The reaction of Tiger and Ranger fans to the returns of Peralta and Cruz is pretty good evidence of that.

[Patrick425]

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

 

This comment really fascinates me because it highlights how different people have different standards for what is going to upset them, and what they consider despicable conduct.

 

Although it is on a much less public stage, I would guess that a lot of us who have worked in large corporations or attended competitive schools have witnessed first hand what people will do to advance themselves, including pointing fingers at others or stepping over them, or doing whatever else it might take to advance or protect their careers. Essentially that's what athletes do when they take PEDs to gain a competitive advantage.

 

I guess we all have to decide for ourselves what conduct we find more reprehensible, but cheating on the people closest to us and hurting them deeply and personally ranks pretty high on my list.

 

I think you kind of answered your own question (if there was a question?). When I watch a sport I want to believe that each player is playing under and following the same set of rules. I want to know that player A is better than player B only because of his work ethic and natural abilities, not because of something he is doing that is not within the rules of the game. While I agree with you that cheating on a spouse and hurting a loved one is a serious lapse in moral judgement, so is cheating in sports and generally an athlete does not cheat on their spouse in order to gain a professional edge.

 

In your examples regarding the corporate world, people step on others and sometime may even cheat on their spouses in order to get ahead or an unfair advantage over their colleges. In many ways it's the equivalent to taking PED's in sports.

[BruisedCrew]

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

 

This comment really fascinates me because it highlights how different people have different standards for what is going to upset them, and what they consider despicable conduct.

 

Although it is on a much less public stage, I would guess that a lot of us who have worked in large corporations or attended competitive schools have witnessed first hand what people will do to advance themselves, including pointing fingers at others or stepping over them, or doing whatever else it might take to advance or protect their careers. Essentially that's what athletes do when they take PEDs to gain a competitive advantage.

 

I guess we all have to decide for ourselves what conduct we find more reprehensible, but cheating on the people closest to us and hurting them deeply and personally ranks pretty high on my list.

 

I think you kind of answered your own question (if there was a question?). When I watch a sport I want to believe that each player is playing under and following the same set of rules. I want to know that player A is better than player B only because of his work ethic and natural abilities, not because of something he is doing that is not within the rules of the game. While I agree with you that cheating on a spouse and hurting a loved one is a serious lapse in moral judgement, so is cheating in sports and generally an athlete does not cheat on their spouse in order to gain a professional edge.

 

In your examples regarding the corporate world, people step on others and sometime may even cheat on their spouses in order to get ahead or an unfair advantage over their colleges. In many ways it's the equivalent to taking PED's in sports.

 

I wasn't really raising a question but making an observation. I was also expressing surprise that someone could understand why an athlete might cheat on his wife, but couldn't understand why an athlete would take PEDs.

 

I think all sports fans would like to think that everyone is playing by the same rules and that nobody is using banned substances to enhance his performance. But, unfortunately, that seems like an ideal that doesn't exist, if it ever did. Unless you believe that Biogenesis has been the exclusive provider of PED's to major league baseball players, there are almost certainly other players who were, and most likely still are, using PED's. And the Biogenesis case has proven that passing drug tests does not mean that a player isn't taking PEDs. So, if we want to enjoy following the sport, we have to accept that the playing field isn't always level and move on.

 

As for the rules of the game, those rules (as contained in the Players Agreement) say that a player gets suspended for 50 games if he is caught using a banned substance. So, Braun and the other players who have been suspended have served their punishments and, by the rules of the game, are allowed back in. From the standpoint of the rules of the game, as far as we know, what Braun did is no different than what Peralta, Cruz, Melky Cabrera, and many others did. The stuff relating to lying and "throwing others under the bus" bears only his personal character. In that regard, should we hate Braun as a person any more than Tiger fans hate (or don't hate) Peralta because of his cheating and less highly publicized lying, or Miguel Cabrera for his past personal indiscretions?

[RightFieldCoder]

Also...as a long term 20 game season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for my call from Braun. I'm beginning to wonder how many calls he made and if he called just enough people in order to get the story out there.

Did you (or others) actually expect him to call every single iteration of season ticketholder? I assumed he would only be calling full-season ticketholders or the bigger spenders out of full-season ticketholders.

 

 

That's what I originally expected as well, but then I heard reports of 20 game season ticket holders being called as well (some who posted on this site) and "unofficial" confirmation that he was calling all season ticket holders of 20 games or more. I'm sure if I felt like digging around on the site, I could find posts and links to articles that talk about this.

As a twelve year full season ticket holder, I'm still waiting for him to call.

 

The other major difference between Braun and Woods is that one plays for a team. If someone is upset with what Woods does they can simply become fans of other golfers. If someone is upset with Braun they have to deal with his success helping the team you cheer for.

 

The difference between Braun and Cervelli is how much they influence the ability for their team to win. We wouldn't have this many threads or this long of a discussion if it was Maldonado or Bianchi that got caught.

[trwi7]

Keep waiting. I don't know why everyone wants or needs a phone call.

 

If you're mad about the influence they have in the ability for their team to win it's pretty ridiculous to be mad at Braun for that.

 

1. He apparently took them to help get over nagging injuries in a season where the Brewers had a legit chance to win a title.

 

2. He served his suspension when the team was already far out of any chance of getting a playoff spot. So it's not like his suspension affected the Brewers chances of winning anything meaningful.

[BruisedCrew]

I'm pretty sure that it was never said that Braun was going to call all season ticket holders. In fact, when the story first came out there were some objections to the Brewers providing him with phone numbers, so that may have put an end to it.

 

If you really want a call, maybe you should send something to the Brewers specifically giving them permission to give Braun your number and asking them to pass it on to him because you want him to call you. It could be fun to see what happens.

[trwi7]

I'm pretty sure that it was never said that Braun was going to call all season ticket holders.

 

Seriously. Does anyone have any idea how time consuming it would be to call every season ticket holder? He'd be calling into spring training.