Arizona Fall League / Winter League Thread -- Full Brewers Details for Each Game

[Mass Haas]

It's an afternoon rematch withb Scottsdale Thursday afternoon.

 

Here's a box score link to check in on later today.

[Mass Haas]

Mitch Haniger is batting cleanup and playing right field today. Jason Rogers is a 9th place hitter in today's lineup, starting in left.

[Mass Haas]

Surprise rode a six-run 6th inning to defeat Scottsdale Thursday afternoon, 10-5 (box). Since all three Brewers relievers (Cravy, Shackelford, and Goforth) seem to be on a sameday schedule (for now), and each pitched Wednesday, no update on them today.

 

Mitch Haniger is batting cleanup and playing right field today. Jason Rogers is a 9th place hitter in today's lineup, starting in left.

 

Haniger was 0-for-3 but did drive in a run with a sacrifice fly.

 

Rogers singled in four trips, driving in a run as detailed below --

 

Surprise Bottom of the 3rd

 

Brett Nicholas doubles (1) on a line drive to center fielder Mason Williams.

Jason Rogers singles on a line drive to right fielder Cory Vaughn. Brett Nicholas scores.

Tyler Naquin strikes out swinging.

With Mookie Betts batting, Jason Rogers steals (2) 2nd base.

Mookie Betts pops out to second baseman Tommy La Stella.

Garin Cecchini strikes out swinging.

 

That means Jason has stolen 32 bases in 41 attempts in his four-year pro career. Way to go, big man...

[Mass Haas]

It's another afternoon outing for the Saguaros today (1:35 Central), and the box score from Mesa can be found here.

[Mass Haas]

Surprise won a wild game Friday afternoon, scoring two runs in the top of the 9th to break a 9-9 tie.

 

Box Score

 

Mitch Haniger started in LF and batted 3rd, and had another nice game, single, two walks, RBI, and two runs scored.

 

(The Fall League twitter feed initially had Mitch with a three-run HR, but later corrected themselves.)

 

Jason Rogers was a late-game sub in RF, no AB's.

 

RHP David Goforth was asked to preserve a 9-8 lead in a tough situation in the bottom of the 8th. He ended up charged with a blown save that was definitely not his fault, but got the win when the Saguaros rallied in the 9th. Goforth still hasn't allowed a hit in four AFL appearances covering 3.2 innings.

 

Mesa Bottom of the 8th

 

Taylor Lindsey grounds out, first baseman Travis Shaw to pitcher Jason Gurka.

C. J. Cron doubles (2) on a sharp line drive to center fielder Tyler Naquin.

Pitching Change: David Goforth replaces Jason Gurka.

Kris Bryant strikes out swinging. Kris Bryant advances to 2nd, on a throwing error by catcher Jorge Alfaro. Passed ball by catcher Jorge Alfaro. C. Cron scores.

Matt Skole walks.

Jorge Soler strikes out swinging.

Zach Borenstein grounds out to first baseman Travis Shaw.

 

***

 

Next is a Saturday night game in Glendale, click on the box score here as part of your Saturday night internet experience.

[Mass Haas]

RH reliever and 40-man roster member Jesus Sanchez (career pitching stats) made his 2013-14 winter league debut in his native Venezuela Friday. The former pro catcher (2005-2008) appeared in 48 games for AAA Nashville this past season, posting a 2.83 ERA while fanning 50 and walking 18 in 70 innings, so this one inning was a bit of a microcosm of his season, effective but not flashy. Sanchez is entering his 10th pro season, but only turned 26 last month. Sanchez has one minor league option remaining (he was optioned in 2010 while on the Phillies 40-man roster).

 

Lara Bottom of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: Jesus Sanchez replaces Danny Rondon.

Jesus Solorzano grounds out, pitcher Jesus Sanchez to first baseman Jose Osuna.

Joc Pederson flies out to center fielder Ezequiel Carrera.

Jesus Montero singles on a line drive to center fielder Ezequiel Carrera.

Joe Thurston flies out to left fielder Adonis Garcia in foul territory.

 

Here's a May 2013 audio interview with Sanchez via the Voice of the Sounds, Jeff Hem.

 

***

 

So, along with RHP Arcenio Leon, also in Venezuela, there are two Brewers under contract for 2014 who have begun winter league play. We'll keep you posted as others debut or are acquired.

[Mass Haas]

Haniger's homer sets tone for Saguaros

Brewers prospect has amassed 12 RBIs over nine AFL games

By Josh Jackson / MiLB.com

 

Mitch Haniger has posted a .475 on-base percentage and a .667 slugging percentage through nine AFL games, and he has 12 RBIs and eight runs scored. (Jason Wise Photo/MLB.com)

 

http://www.milb.com/assets/images/1/1/8/63172118/cuts/Haniger480_ipq2n2k9_sjkv1key.jpg

 

***

 

As you just read at that link, Haniger (who played CF Saturday) also leads the AFL in feature stories at MiLB.com.

 

Also, Jason Rogers was 1-for-4 with a walk and run scored. Adam Weisenburger singled in four trips as the DH, driving in two, one on an RBI groundout.

 

It was also a good night for RHP's Kevin Shackelford and Tyler Cravy, who each tossed a hitless inning (one walk apiece) to close out the 7-0 win.

 

Glendale Bottom of the 8th

 

Pitching Change: Kevin Shackelford replaces Shawn Armstrong.

Jared Mitchell grounds out sharply, second baseman Jonathan Schoop to first baseman Brett Nicholas.

Tucker Barnhart grounds out, second baseman Jonathan Schoop to first baseman Brett Nicholas.

Danny Black walks.

Marcus Semien grounds out, shortstop Derrik Gibson to first baseman Brett Nicholas.

 

Glendale Bottom of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: Tyler Cravy replaces Kevin Shackelford.

Colin Moran walks.

Chris O'Brien called out on strikes.

Eddie Rosario grounds into a double play, second baseman Jonathan Schoop to shortstop Derrik Gibson to first baseman Brett Nicholas. Colin Moran out at 2nd

 

***

 

Surprise enjoys Sunday off before heading to Mesa on Monday afternoon, you can click on that box score via this link.

[Mass Haas]

More Brewers under contract for 2014 made winter league debuts recently, all in the Dominican.

 

Sean Halton has played first base for Licey in his first two games, and is 3-for-6 with two walks (all three of those hits were doubles in his impressive debut).

 

Halton's teammate is Juan Francisco, who is 1-for-7 with a walk (and only one K) in the two games. Francisco was the DH and then the third baseman in his two starts.

 

Three players who re-signed minor league deals with the Brewers (all with major league camp invites), are also underway.

 

Catcher Robinzon Diaz is 2-for-8 with an RBI playing for Gigantes del Cibao. He served as DH in his first game.

 

Shortstop Hector Gomez and IF/OF Eugenio Velez are each playing for Toros del Este. Gomez was 0-for-3 and Velez, playing LF, was 1-for-2 with two walks and an RBI (picking up where he left off in Nashville) in their debut game. Saturday's game hasn't been posted yet.

 

As for players who had already been mentioned as active in this thread, RHP Arcenio Leon made his 4th appearance in Venezuela, and tossed two scoreless innings in his team's 6-1 win.

 

Caribes Top of the 7th

 

Pitching Change: Arcenio Leon replaces Deivis Mavarez.

Luis Nunez lines out to second baseman Jose Pirela.

Oscar Salazar singles on a fly ball to right fielder Felix Perez.

Carlos Duran strikes out swinging.

Gustavo Molina grounds out, second baseman Jose Pirela to first baseman Mark Minicozzi.

 

Caribes Top of the 8th

 

Eduardo Escobar grounds out, pitcher Arcenio Leon to first baseman Mark Minicozzi.

Gorkys Hernandez flies out to right fielder Felix Perez.

Leslie Anderson flies out to center fielder Ender Inciarte.

[Mass Haas]

Late Saturday box from the Dominican:

 

Eugenio Velez, playing LF, two-run HR, single, sacrifice bunt (3-for-4 with two walks in first two games)

 

SS Hector Gomez, 0-for-4, one K, one error, 0-for-7 thus far

 

***

 

Sunday box for Velez / Gomez pending

 

***

 

Sunday box from the Dominican:

 

Juan Francisco, batting cleanup and playing third base, 1-for-3, single, HBP, one K

 

Sean Halton, batting 5th and playing first base, 1-for-3, single, sac fly RBI, one K

 

***

 

Sunday box from the Dominican:

 

Robinzon Diaz, batting 3rd as the designated hitter, 1-for-6 (double), one K, team lost in 11 innings

[Mass Haas]

Well, the missing Sunday box score is in, and the Eugenio Velez madness has to stop.

 

The switch-hitting veteran IF/OF finished his AAA Nashville season with a 22-game hitting streak. In 38 games for Nashville after being plucked off the unemployment line, the 31-year-old Velez hit .377/.437/.523 over 175 plate appearances.

 

On Sunday, Velez doubled, singled twice, walked, stole two bases, scored two runs and drove in another.

 

In three Winter League games, Velez is 6-for-8 with a HR, double, and three walks.

 

That's .750/.818/1.250 (2.068 OPS). Obviously a tiny sample, but the bigger picture is a ridiculously hot 41-game stretch for a versatile switch-hitting veteran. If Velez were to continue this run in some form until the November 20th deadline for adding players to the 40-man roster before the Rule 5 draft, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Brewers would do so, thus protecting a potential target. Not saying they will, but it could be envisioned.

 

Here's a reminder about the Rule 5 protection considerations the Brewers must make.

[Mass Haas]

Surprise fell on Monday, 9-6, to drop to 6-5 on the AFL season (box).

 

Mitch Haniger, playing LF and batting 3rd, was the only Brewer to see action, 1-for-4 (single) with a walk. A .400 OBP for the day actually dropped Haniger's AFL OBP to .467.

 

The Brewers designated Haniger their "priority player" before the AFL season, thus Mitch's near-everyday presence, which he's earning as well.

 

It's a rematch Tuesday afternoon, this time in Surprise. This will be your box score / Gameday link.

[TooLiveBrew]

That Eugenio Velez is representing the Brewers in the AFL makes me sad. Not that I dislike the guy or anything.

[Mass Haas]

That Eugenio Velez is representing the Brewers in the AFL makes me sad. Not that I dislike the guy or anything.

 

This thread encompasses both AFL and Caribbean Winter league action.

[TooLiveBrew]

That Eugenio Velez is representing the Brewers in the AFL makes me sad. Not that I dislike the guy or anything.

 

This thread encompasses both AFL and Caribbean Winter league action.

I am not a smart man.

[JohnBriggs12]

That Eugenio Velez is representing the Brewers in the AFL makes me sad. Not that I dislike the guy or anything.

 

This thread encompasses both AFL and Caribbean Winter league action.

I am not a smart man.

 

 

You are smart enough, but you've been so oversold by so-called experts on the lack of talent in the Brewer system that you actually thought it was plausible that they'd have a 31 year old journeyman minor leaguer playing in what is supposed to be a showcase league for actual prospects. Things never were that bad.

[Mass Haas]

Jason Rogers (LF) batting 2nd, Mitch Haniger (RF) cleanup in Tuesday afternoon's AFL game. We'll probably see some of the pitchers this afternoon (Cravy, Shackelford, Goforth).

 

Also, Taylor Jungmann hasn't pitched since 10/14, but is listed as Surprise's starter for Friday. Why the lengthy layoff between outings, no word.

[TheCrew07]

...oversold by so-called experts on the lack of talent in the Brewer system that you actually thought it was plausible that they'd have a 31 year old journeyman minor leaguer playing in what is supposed to be a showcase league for actual prospects. Things never were that bad.

 

Originally I let this go but it's been sticking in my craw all day. Players like Sean Halton and Jason Rogers are nice quality depth, but are not the type of players who we would want anchoring down any particular position for 6-7 years. They have value, but they aren't 1st division starters, and that fact is the single biggest problem with the Brewers farm system. Who profiles to be above average as a pitcher or position player in the next few years? How many players can we realistically project to be 1st division (above average) type players?

 

I posted this early in the T-Rats season but I might have been wrong about Haniger, I really liked him when I saw him play, he might be able to match the production of a Corey Hart for example... he might make a good everyday type player. I know he didn't set the world on fire at BC, but that doesn't really change my opinion of him. Beyond him look around... I'd make an argument for Hunter Morris but he didn't even get a sniff and a ton of posters on this site are overvaluing pitching prospects like Hellweg and Jungmann. People will make arguments for Taylor and Roache which is fine, but I'd like to see continued growth from those guys before I get too excited.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't see it with the MLB team or the farm system... we have nothing to hang our hats on. Melvin and Mark A. will keep chasing that 81st win so the fans keep showing up to Miller Park, but from where I'm sitting we're extremely mediocre as an organization, and several key facets are well below average.

 

If we aren't building towards anything we're losing ground, and we haven't been building since 2007, we've been maintaining and/or patching the MLB roster, and that's it. As such we arrived at this point: 2 incredibly disappointing seasons in a row and a bottom third farm system. The Cards are better today and project to be better in the future, I would expect the Pirates to continue to ascend, the Reds have some interesting pitching on the way, and finally the Cubs have the best collection of position prospects I can recall since I started following the minors in 2003. We're a 4th place team without the impact to project for the future, it shouldn't take any "expert" to tell us anything, all it should take is a realistic and somewhat unbiased look at the state of the organization and the division to see the truth.

[Mass Haas]

Surprise scored three runs in the bottom of the 7th to overcome a 2-1 deficit and grab a 4-2 win Tuesday afternoon.

 

Jason Rogers walked late in that three-run frame, and Mitch Haniger's spot didn't come up then, but each was 1-for-3 with a walk and a strikeout. Rogers hit was an RBI double:

 

Surprise Bottom of the 6th

 

Pitching Change: Kenny Faulk replaces Blaine Hardy.

Tyler Naquin walks.

Jason Rogers doubles (2) on a sharp line drive to left fielder Brian Goodwin. Tyler Naquin scores.

Garin Cecchini strikes out swinging.

Mitch Haniger walks.

Jonathan Schoop pops out to first baseman Matt Skole in foul territory.

With Brett Nicholas batting, Adrian Nieto picks off Mitch Haniger at 1st on throw to Matt Skole.

 

RHP David Goforth closed out the 9th --

 

Mesa Top of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: David Goforth replaces Keith Couch.

Max Muncy lines out to left fielder Jason Rogers.

Adrian Nieto strikes out swinging.

Dixon Machado singles on a line drive to right fielder Mitch Haniger.

With Albert Almora batting, Dixon Machado advances to 2nd on defensive indifference.

Albert Almora lines out to second baseman Joe Wendle

 

Goforth touched 97 and mixed in a nice speed-differential slider and curveball as Gameday shows.

 

It'll be another afternoon affair Wednesday hosting Salt River. You'll be able to find that box score here.

[Mass Haas]

Tuesday's Winter League activity --

 

In Venezueala - Box Score: 40-man roster RHP Jesus Sanchez earned a "hold", it was both shaky yet clutch.

 

Caracas Top of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: Jesus Sanchez replaces Jose Ortega.

Luis Rodriguez walks.

Gregorio Petit doubles (4) on a line drive to left fielder Lew Ford. Luis Rodriguez to 3rd.

Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Raul Padron replaces Rico Noel.

Raul Padron pops out to third baseman Mario Lisson.

Daniel Mayora lines out to second baseman Rougned Odor.

Pitching Change: Deolis Guerra replaces Jesus Sanchez.

Danny Dorn grounds out, second baseman Rougned Odor to first baseman Eliezer Alfonzo.

 

The pitching change was for another RHP, so Sanchez wasn't pulled for a LOOGY situation for the final out save.

 

***

 

Also in Venezuela --

 

Box Score: RHP Arcenio Leon earned a save; his squad led 7-2 going into the bottom of the 9th, so Leon likely figured he had a night off - he walked a man before ending the madness in a 7-6 win:

 

Lara Bottom of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: Daryl Maday replaces Yeiper Castillo.

Paulo Orlando grounds out, third baseman Henry Rodriguez to first baseman Ernesto Mejia.

Joe Thurston singles on a ground ball to center fielder Ender Inciarte.

Jesus Solorzano strikes out swinging.

With Jose Yepez batting, Joe Thurston advances to 2nd on defensive indifference.

Jose Yepez doubles (1) on a fly ball to left fielder Freddy Parejo. Joe Thurston scores.

Gabriel Noriega singles on a ground ball to left fielder Freddy Parejo. Jose Yepez to 3rd.

Oswaldo Navarro homers (1) on a fly ball to left field. Jose Yepez scores. Gabriel Noriega scores.

Joc Pederson walks.

Pitching Change: Arcenio Leon replaces Daryl Maday.

Jairo Perez walks. Joc Pederson to 2nd.

Jesus Montero grounds out, second baseman Jose Flores to first baseman Ernesto Mejia.

 

***

 

Dominican Republic -- What's this, an 18-8 game full of five Brewers? Here we go:

 

Box Score

 

For the winners, Juan Francisco, batting cleanup and playing third base, was 3-for-5 with a home run, three RBI and two runs scored (one K). He committed his first error of the season.

 

Francisco's teammate, Sean Halton, batting 5th and playing first base, was also 3-for-5, also homered, doubled (triple shy of a cycle), walked, drove in four, and scored twice.

 

40-man roster RHP and 2013 Huntsville Star Ariel Pena made his winter debut and tossed a mop-up 9th inning to close out the rout, and was greeted rudely by his Huntsville teammate:

 

Toros Top of the 9th

 

Pitching Change: Ariel Pena replaces Cesar Valdez.

Hector Gomez homers (1) on a fly ball to left field.

Pedro Feliz grounds out, second baseman Anderson Hernandez to first baseman Sean Halton.

Juan Ciriaco walks.

Donell Linares grounds into a double play, shortstop Jurickson Profar to second baseman Anderson Hernandez to first baseman Sean Halton. Juan Ciriaco out at 2nd.

 

For the losing Licey squad, that HR (Huntsville on Huntsville crime) was Hector Gomez' only plate appearance, late sub at third base.

 

We jinxed veteran Eugenio Velez with our recent notations of his hot streak - 0-for-4 with a strikeout.

 

To see the situations behind the Francisco and Halton big nights, here's the game log.

[JohnBriggs12]

...oversold by so-called experts on the lack of talent in the Brewer system that you actually thought it was plausible that they'd have a 31 year old journeyman minor leaguer playing in what is supposed to be a showcase league for actual prospects. Things never were that bad.

 

Originally I let this go but it's been sticking in my craw all day. Players like Sean Halton and Jason Rogers are nice quality depth, but are not the type of players who we would want anchoring down any particular position for 6-7 years. They have value, but they aren't 1st division starters, and that fact is the single biggest problem with the Brewers farm system. Who profiles to be above average as a pitcher or position player in the next few years? How many players can we realistically project to be 1st division (above average) type players?

 

I posted this early in the T-Rats season but I might have been wrong about Haniger, I really liked him when I saw him play, he might be able to match the production of a Corey Hart for example... he might make a good everyday type player. I know he didn't set the world on fire at BC, but that doesn't really change my opinion of him. Beyond him look around... I'd make an argument for Hunter Morris but he didn't even get a sniff and a ton of posters on this site are overvaluing pitching prospects like Hellweg and Jungmann. People will make arguments for Taylor and Roache which is fine, but I'd like to see continued growth from those guys before I get too excited.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't see it with the MLB team or the farm system... we have nothing to hang our hats on. Melvin and Mark A. will keep chasing that 81st win so the fans keep showing up to Miller Park, but from where I'm sitting we're extremely mediocre as an organization, and several key facets are well below average.

 

If we aren't building towards anything we're losing ground, and we haven't been building since 2007, we've been maintaining and/or patching the MLB roster, and that's it. As such we arrived at this point: 2 incredibly disappointing seasons in a row and a bottom third farm system. The Cards are better today and project to be better in the future, I would expect the Pirates to continue to ascend, the Reds have some interesting pitching on the way, and finally the Cubs have the best collection of position prospects I can recall since I started following the minors in 2003. We're a 4th place team without the impact to project for the future, it shouldn't take any "expert" to tell us anything, all it should take is a realistic and somewhat unbiased look at the state of the organization and the division to see the truth.

 

 

What exactly is a "1st division type player"? Yuni Betancourt was the everyday SS on a 96 win team. Does that make him a "1st division type player"? Jonothan Lucroy's been the starting catcher on teams that won 96 and teams that won 74. What exactly is he? Gomez? Segura? Braun?

 

I think you need to realize there's a razor thin line between a 90 win team and a 70 win team. Key injuries, suspensions for your best player, ill timed pitching slumps, and having an All Star 2b not be able to produce to his talent level happens in this game. If you found the last two years "terribly disappointing", then I suggest you need to take a wider view. 2011 was a very special year. Those special years are usually followed by lesser years. 1982 was another magical year in Brewer history and everyone back then thought oh this team is great. Then 1983 and an utter collapse down the stretch happened. 84 was much worse thanks in part to injuries. It's the nature of the game. It ebbs and flows. What happened in 2013 has no bearing on 2014 any more than what happened in 2011 had on 2012. The Brewers have plenty of talented players on their roster now. Most are under 30 and under control for 3 or more seasons. As for minor leagues, ratings are opinions. Period. It doesn't give me any comfort to know that my team has a highly rated minor league system nor do I lose sleep if the same experts have the farm system rated low. Nobody really knows how good a player is until he does or doesn't produce in the major leagues. You bring up Sean Halton. Most "in the know" people didn't think he'd sniff a major league roster. He probably won't be anything more than a marginal utility guy, but the point is that some guys exceed their expectations and some fall woefully short.

 

Another analogy is college football recruiting. If success on the field corresponded exactly to recruiting rankings, Wisconsin would be a perennial 2nd division Big Ten team. The correlation is a bit stronger in a sport like basketball with smaller rosters, but even there, some programs fail with highly rated recruits and others succeed with lesser rated recruits.

[Mass Haas]

VIDEO: MLB.com discusses Taylor Jungmann and Mitch Haniger

[Mass Haas]

Surprise scored three runs in the bottom of the 8th to grab an 8-6 victory Wednesday (box). RHP Kevin Shackelford was the beneficiary as he got the win after a scoreless frame in which he pitched himself in and out of trouble. Shackelford followed up two scoreless innings from RHP Tyler Cravy, who still hasn't allowed a run this AFL season (7.1 innings).

 

Salt River Top of the 6th

 

Pitching Change: Tyler Cravy replaces Shawn Armstrong.

Mike Freeman walks.

Dustin Garneau strikes out swinging.

Ryan Brett lines out to right fielder Dariel Alvarez.

James Ramsey flies out to center fielder Tyler Naquin.

 

Salt River Top of the 7th

 

Jake Lamb strikes out swinging.

Kyle Parker singles on a ground ball to left fielder Mitch Haniger. Kyle Parker out at 2nd, left fielder Mitch Haniger to second baseman Mookie Betts.

Tim Wheeler strikes out swinging.

 

Salt River Top of the 8th

 

Pitching Change: Kevin Shackelford replaces Tyler Cravy.

Andy Burns called out on strikes.

Nick Ahmed singles on a ground ball to left fielder Mitch Haniger.

With Mike Freeman batting, wild pitch by Kevin Shackelford, Nick Ahmed to 2nd.

Mike Freeman singles on a line drive to left fielder Mitch Haniger. Nick Ahmed to 3rd.

Dustin Garneau pops out to second baseman Mookie Betts.

Ryan Brett grounds into a force out, third baseman Ryan Rua to second baseman Mookie Betts. Mike Freeman out at 2nd.

 

That outfield assist by Mitch Haniger was the highlight of his day, as he finally had a rough day at the plate (0-for-5, one K).

 

You can check out Cravy's and Shackelford's pitch choices and speeds in the 6th, 7th, and 8th, by going to the pitch-by-pitch feature at Gameday.

 

***

 

Afternoon rematch Thursday afternoon at Salt River. Your early box score link is here.

[Mass Haas]

Winter League action from the Dominican --

 

Box

 

Juan Francisco saw his first action this winter season at first base, 1-for-5 batting cleanup (double, run scored, no K's). Francisco is now 6-for-20 with two XBH's, one walk but only three K's, as we follow his batting stance/approach progress.

 

Sean Halton again batted 5th behind his Brewers teammate, and was 1-for-3 with an HBP. Halton played LF here to make room for Francisco at first.

 

Halton was replaced in LF to begin the 7th, his HBP was back in the 3rd, so it's likely not related. Hopefully not, Sean's now 8-for-17 with three walks, just scorching (five extra-base hits).

 

Technically, he's not part of this thread (not a Brewer under contract for 2014), but LHP Chris Narveson made his DWL debut pitching for the same squad as his Brewers mates (Licey), but didn't post great numers, as the box link above will show you.

[Mass Haas]

Also in the Dominican (box) --

 

Robinzon Diaz, DH'ing again, successfully hacking again (no walks on the island for him, either) was 2-for-5 (double, one K).

 

Eugenio Velez singled twice in four trips to get back to .500 (8-for-16, three walks). Another game in left field for Velez.

 

One day after homering in his lone at-bat, SS Hector Gomez was 0-for-3 to fall to 1-for-12 in the early going.

[TheCrew07]

What exactly is a "1st division type player"?

 

I already answered that above, he's above average. No Yuni B wasn't even average and that's ridiculous comparison to make. Since you apparently don't like the definition, here's the explanation as laid out by wikipedia. Certainly someone such as yourself would have been capable of finding that on your own.

 

I think you need to realize there's a razor thin line between a 90 win team and a 70 win team.

 

Yes you are correct, I obviously haven't put any time or thought into baseball and I just run around repeating what I read elsewhere... Then again, maybe I'm talking about building something special and you're talking about trying to win as many games as possible in any given year. 2 completely different concepts, yet you somehow think that I don't understand the razor thin margins between success and failure in baseball? Even when I constantly post about it from a pitching perspective?

 

Seriously, this coversation is exactly why it's largely pointless to discuss these issues... It doesn't matter how many times it is written, or from how many different angles, people still tell me what I see or don't see and in both cases are completely off the mark nearly every time.

 

If you found the last two years "terribly disappointing", then I suggest you need to take a wider view.

 

I don't think I'm the one who needs to take a "wider view" when I'm looking at the state of the entire organization vs the rest of the division, league, and MLB. Say what you want, (and you will), but the Brewers were never in the race and I have a huge problem spending money and giving up draft picks on aging retreads to not accomplish anything.

 

2011 was a very special year. Those special years are usually followed by lesser years... It is the nature of the game...

 

Says whom? Where is it written in stone? I say again that somehow the Rays whom have 1/3 of our payroll manage to contend every single year. This isn't about what the Brewers have or haven't done historically, why would I want to revisit that past for anything other than a "what not to do?". This is about moving the organization forward in completely different era, where payroll potential is completely unbalanced across MLB, and how to remain truly competitive on a yearly basis. None of that other fluff matters... it may matter to you on a personal level, but it has nothing to do with operating a baseball franchise in 2014. You're only doomed to repeat history if you haven't learned from it... which should tell you everything you need to know about DM and MA right there.

 

As for your lesser talent analogies.... well the football comments are completely off the mark, because there's nothing similar between developing football players whom you can red shirt if they aren't ready, coach 6 out of the 7 days per week, give daily individual instruction on the field, weight room, and in film review. Baseball doesn't operate in that manner at all, it's still largely trial by fire. I firmly believe that strong character trumps talent, but what happens when players of similar character have dissimilar talent? Casey McGehee was never going to be a career 800+ OPS player, nor will the players I previously mentioned. Prospects can and will fail for many reasons, but so do established MLB players. Kyle Lohse is a fine pitcher, but in the post season who are you going to bet on the better line-ups in the league getting to first... someone like him or someone like Verlander? My end game isn't winning games in the regular season, it's about winning the World Series. You can win games with an average rotation but you aren't winning anything in the post season with average pitching.

 

In truth this is actually very simple, the Brewers cannot afford to buy significant talent in FA, as such the organization must operate in a manner that regularly supplies impact talent to the MLB club through other means. As we've seen, there are only so many trades you can make for CY pitching before the cupboard is completely barren, so a better strategy would seem to be one that focuses on locking up key players early and focuses on cycling as much impact talent back onto itself as possible. 1st division players, impact talent, which ever phrase you choose, the Brewers have it in short supply. A system full of depth (role players) isn't a good system, it's not being underrated, every system has that kind of talent, the farm systems that stand are the ones who have potential talent to make a significant impact at MLB.

 

You talked earlier about history... well historically what leads you to believe that Brewers can turn system of role players into a team that can win 90 games? Where's that magic formula been hiding all these years? The Brewers system has turned out offensively talented and defensively deficient players for years, had 2 players with hall of fame potential in the line-up together, and couldn't get it done. Now you want to replace those kind of players with players whom are 2 or 3 steps down and expect a resurgance in the win column? You can give away wins at 1 position if you pick them up another, but how is that going to happen? How is the pitching going to get better? What prospect at any position can we pencil in for a .900+ OPS?

 

Finally none of that has anything to do with the rest of the division ascending talent wise while we regress? That's your wider view right there... 1982 is ancient history, I enjoyed that run, but I'm sick of hearing about it, I'm sick of people talking about it, and what happened in the 80s and even in the 90s has nothing to do with the realities of the modern game.