2013 Playoffs LATEST: "CARDS LOSE! CARDS LOSE!" Boston Red Sox 2013 World Series Champions.

[Bombers]

So you're gonna throw Uehara out there with 8 outs to get? He aint pitching 2 and 2/3 inning.

Says who? And who knows if you use him for all 8 outs. But the mindset that my best pitcher can only pitch in the 9th inning is idiotic. When you do that you get results like yesterday, your best pitcher on the mound with the lead long gone. IMO that is bad managing.

Edit -> sorry rondo - my response seems a tad harsh, not trying to be rude. While I agree 8 outs might have been difficult for Uehara, but 5 might not have been. Plus with the game in Fenway, the pitcher doesn't bat. So even more of a reason as you won't have to pull him for a hitter. In the end, I just wish in tight spots teams would bring in their best relief pitcher- regardless of inning. Give your 2nd or 3rd best pitcher a clean inning and not 2 on with 1 out. It is what frustrates me with the brewers coaching. Same situation and Loe is brought in to give up a 3 run jack.

[logan82]

Your Brewer fan card has been revoked.

 

LOL! I look at this Series as I do most presidential elections, LESSER of two evils! That was great AZBrew!

The cardinals can never be considered the lesser of two evils even if they were standing side by side with the devil.

[rondoman]

So you're gonna throw Uehara out there with 8 outs to get? He aint pitching 2 and 2/3 inning.

Says who? And who knows if you use him for all 8 outs. But the mindset that my best pitcher can only pitch in the 9th inning is idiotic. When you do that you get results like yesterday, your best pitcher on the mound with the lead long gone. IMO that is bad managing.

Edit -> sorry rondo - my response seems a tad harsh, not trying to be rude. While I agree 8 outs might have been difficult for Uehara, but 5 might not have been. Plus with the game in Fenway, the pitcher doesn't bat. So even more of a reason as you won't have to pull him for a hitter. In the end, I just wish in tight spots teams would bring in their best relief pitcher- regardless of inning. Give your 2nd or 3rd best pitcher a clean inning and not 2 on with 1 out. It is what frustrates me with the brewers coaching. Same situation and Loe is brought in to give up a 3 run jack.

 

 

I actually agree with you 100%. I would have loved to see the closer come in during the highest leverage situation with the game on the line, but you know that no manager would ever do that right now. Maybe in the future but I was just saying you wont see a manager put his closer in during the 7th inning. Baseball is stuck in the whole "roles" thing way too much.

[rondoman]

The crap that Dana Demuth is calling tonite is almost criminal.

 

I mean it's atrocious for both teams.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

wow how is that interference? the 3B was diving to catch the ball. What the heck is the 3B supposed to do? Not dive and let it go? MLB loves them some Cardinals!

[owbc]

I didn't watch the game but it looks straightforward on the replay. That would even be illegal in the NFL.

[rondoman]

I hate it but it was the right call. Stupid Salty never should have thrown it.

[SRB]

You could call that either way. Umpires decided to give the game for the Cardinals rather then letting more baseball be played. Not saying they are biased or that it was malicious but that's what happened.

 

*Edit* Watching the replay this call was so wrong. I am baffled that the consensus seems to be the umpires got it correct. The rule is clearly written such that you are guilty of obstruction if you miss a catch and then continue to lie on the ground in an opportunistic way to impede the runner. Middlebrooks dove for the ball and in the same fluid motion (i.e. action) "obstructed" the runner (who then ran into/shoved Middlebrooks and prevented him from getting up). Not to mention Craig could have easily circumvented the "obstruction" if he had been watching where he was going and actually stayed on the chalk line rather than running on the inside edge of the base path.

 

Umpires love the Holy Cardinals too, I guess.

[young guns]

My thoughts after seeing the replay are, after missing the catch and laying on the ground, it looks like middlebrooks picked up his legs to try and trip craig. But, craig tripped on middlebrooks' upper part of the leg, so the raised legs had no effect on the play. I'm not sure if the umpire called the interference on the attempt at tripping, with the raising of his legs, or just the fact that craig tripped over him. If its just because of the fact that craig tripped, I have issue with that, because that means that middlebrooks' only options were to not dive to try and save the throw or to dive like he did. IMO, he has to be allowed to make a play. If its because he raised his legs, thats at least just a boneheaded play and I can't fault the umpire for making the call on that because at first I thought that might have been why he was tripped. Either way, its a crappy way to lose a game in the world series.

[SRB]

My thoughts after seeing the replay are, after missing the catch and laying on the ground, it looks like middlebrooks picked up his legs to try and trip craig. But, craig tripped on middlebrooks' upper part of the leg, so the raised legs had no effect on the play. I'm not sure if the umpire called the interference on the attempt at tripping, with the raising of his legs, or just the fact that craig tripped over him. If its just because of the fact that craig tripped, I have issue with that, because that means that middlebrooks' only options were to not dive to try and save the throw or to dive like he did. IMO, he has to be allowed to make a play. If its because he raised his legs, thats at least just a boneheaded play and I can't fault the umpire for making the call on that because at first I thought that might have been why he was tripped. Either way, its a crappy way to lose a game in the world series.

 

I agree that the only ambiguity is whether Middlebooks raising his legs could be interpreted as an attempt to obstruct the runner. However, it seems the umpires made it clear that this is not what they were calling when they emphasized that there is no intent requirement in the rule. They are totally wrong though:

 

"If an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner."

 

The use of the qualifier "very likely" clearly suggests that there are situations where the fielder has missed the ball (i.e. no longer in the act of fielding the ball) and yet he is NOT guilty of obstructing the runner. The strict liability interpretation advocated by the umpires and by many online is logically inconsistent with that language. Either the rule is written incorrectly, or there is an implied intent requirement such that "continues to lie on the ground" means a deliberate and opportunistic attempt to impede the runner, not an involuntary consequence of an attempt to field the ball.

 

That is also the plain meaning of "and he continues," it suggests that the fielder is choosing to continue lying on the ground, not that he is on the ground as part of a fluid motion from his attempt to catch the ball. Furthermore, a strict liability interpretation is totally inconsistent with the rest of the rulebook -- for example, everybody knows a runner can obstruct a fielder turning a double play if he does so as part of a legitimate act of baserunning, whereas if he goes out of his way (with intent) to unnecessarily interfere with the fielder it is an out. Why would obstruction by the fielder be any different?

 

Umpires botched it and have misinterpreted the rule. I don't blame them because that is a hard call to make in a split second, but they screwed up and are setting bad precedent with their defense of the call.

[fondybrewfan]

The cards sure find creative ways every year to win in the playoffs. It sickens me. The call last night was probably right but it still doesn't make it right. Why did Salty even throw to 3rd; just dumb.

[valpocrewsader]

The call was crap. Middlebrooks raised his feet a little, but Craig tripped over his waist. I think Craig actually tripped on purpose to draw the call. Only an uncoordinated buffoon would trip like that over the waist of a guy laying on the ground -- not a professional athlete. Classy.

 

I've been trying to ignore the post-season to avoid seeing crap like this. Like the Cards' bogus infield fly last year that bailed them out of a big inning. Cardinals winning is one level of anger, luckily winning as the beneficiary of crap calls just pushes me over the edge. Wish I hadn't been at a bar last night that had the game on.

[sveumrules]

In Craig's defense he is an uncoordinted buffoon. He was one of the worst baserunners in the league when he was healthy and now he's running on one foot. These aren't athletes, they're baseball players.

 

People saying there is nothing Middlebrooks could have done to avoid obstructing are also incorrect. He could have caught the ball. The throw never should have been made so it is a bad throw in that regard but it didn't skip in the dirt, it didn't sail high or wide.

 

Were I a Red Sox fan I would rank the targets of my ire thusly; Salty for the throw, WMB for not catching it, Farrell for letting a pitcher hit in the top of the 9th in a tied World Series game and, if I had one too many Sam Adams, the umpires.

[Baldkin]

In Craig's defense he is an uncoordinted buffoon. He was one of the worst baserunners in the league when he was healthy and now he's running on one foot. These aren't athletes, they're baseball players.

 

People saying there is nothing Middlebrooks could have done to avoid obstructing are also incorrect. He could have caught the ball. The throw never should have been made so it is a bad throw in that regard but it didn't skip in the dirt, it didn't sail high or wide.

 

Were I a Red Sox fan I would rank the targets of my ire thusly; Salty for the throw, WMB for not catching it, Farrell for letting a pitcher hit in the top of the 9th in a tied World Series game and, if I had one too many Sam Adams, the umpires.

 

Don't forget Farrell for not doing the smart thing and IBBing Jay in that situation to have Uehara face two guys with sub .600 OPSs. The Cards had used their entire bench.

I'm not a fan of the IBB, but if there is one guy in MLB you can trust to go with the bases loaded in that situation, it is Uehara.

[rondoman]

It was 100% the right call.

 

This place is as bad as a Red Sox board damn.

[SRB]

It was 100% the right call.

 

This place is as bad as a Red Sox board damn.

 

Then in what scenario is it not obstruction after you have missed diving for a ball, as the rule clearly contemplates? Umpires got the rule wrong.

[rondoman]

http://firejaymariotti.blogspot.com/2013/10/oblivious-and-self-righteous-cardinals.html?m=1

 

So perfect.

[brewcrewdue80]

It was 100% the right call.

 

This place is as bad as a Red Sox board damn.

 

Then in what scenario is it not obstruction after you have missed diving for a ball, as the rule clearly contemplates? Umpires got the rule wrong.

 

 

I think it was the right call. Watch the replay and why? oh Why? does Middlebrooks do half(okay 1/8) a pushup and lay flat..Good.... but then rather than lay dead and make this a true argument do a 1/2 pushup while kicking his feet up?(Girl Style right?) If those feet would have just stayed on the ground then the call was wrong. But no Will obstructed the runner with his leg/feet move.

 

I hate that the game ends on an umpire call vs. being played out but if Middlebrooks doesn't raise that foot back up, the runner likely makes it home anyway.

 

Also of note: Salty is a moron!! The fielder's choice makes it 2 outs and being a Catcher, the field General should know that and accept letting his CLOSER of all things do what he does best, which is get the next batter OUT to end the inning. If I ran Boston, Salty wouldn't be on my team next year saying just that, he's to big a moron to play catcher. Flat out lost Game 3 for us by being a moron. A Catcher should have Baseball Smarts and he doesn't have it. End of story Good luck to the organization that picks up that big dumb lump of stupidity!

 

 

Edit: just want to add to how dumb Salty was because the entire situation likely went as this: Play Infield in to get the runner out at home if he goes and take it....Next batter is Pete "Frickin 0ferSeries" Kozma and that will be out #3 then. Nope, I lose my mind and make a dumb throw to third completely ruining the preplay strategy. At no time before that pitch was the thought process "We are going to not only get the runner on 3rd out but the runner at 2nd out while ignoring the batter" Yep what a way to end the inning.

 

Rightly so, Salty wasn't in the lineup today...and I hope at best he only pinch hits the rest of the way.

[sdcheezhd]

Wow no references to the game-ending pickoff? Did I miss an entire thread devoted to the Cards' contribution to the worst-played Series in memory?

 

This is fun:

 

http://deadspin.com/cardinals-radio-guy-laughed-at-red-sox-for-holding-kolt-1453631447

 

Although I wonder why people are surprised that the runner was being held since that also sealed the line against a double that would put the tying run in scoring position.

[young guns]

I think Ross might have been safe. It looked like his leg might have arched over the glove and he wasn't tagged until molina brought the glove up into his stomach. It was hard to tell though. It would have been pretty difficult to overturn with instant replay if he were safe.

[sveumrules]

I agree with you, YoungGuns. There was one angle where it looked pretty definitive that Ross got his hand down before Molina brought the glove up. I think they would have stuck with the original call and said it was inconclusive but will definitely be intersting to see how some of these calls would play out with some sort of replay in effect.

 

And how about David Ortiz? That infield ("short outfield") single was pretty impressive, along with pretty much every other plate appearance this World Series. Batting .733 with a 2.016 OPS at the time of this posting if I'm computing right. Interesting side note, Billy Hatcher hit .750 with a 2.050 OPS in the 1990 World Series and didn't win the Series MVP.

[Outlander]

Billy Hatcher certainly had a case for MVP but Jose Rijo was really impressive during the 1990 World Series as well.

[torts]

I dont know if I can remember another world series that was sloppier than this one. I mean... this is pretty bad. game 5 ending on a pick off? game 3 ending on obstruction? COME ONNNNNNNNNN

[rondoman]

Game 5 ended in a pickoff? I missed that one.

[jerichoholicninja]

I heard on the radio that no team has ever came back from down 3-2. I find that surprising and have no doubt in my mind that the Cardinals will because I hate them.